Case weight and charge weight ?

If a case is not charged at 100% , is sorting cases by weight necessary?
Thanks !

Hey Ray

Am confused by your question, and others might be too bein's nobody has tried to answer yet.

Maybe some clarity of what you mean by "100% charged" .... what caliber you are loading for .... when you intend to weigh the cases....and what you are trying to accomplish will help.

My short answer is .... sort by headstamp and work up loads for each, avoid max charges. And, if you are mixing headstamps ... don't approach max charges.

My long answer guessing at what you mean is ......... when looking for max accuracy and max safety ..... I always sort brass by head stamp at a minimum and work up loads independently. In some calibers this is probably overkill when it comes to safety .... in others is it highly recommended for safety ....and in just about all instances it helps if most accuracy is the goal.

Weighing empty, uniformly sized and trimmed brass takes this approach to whole other level .... and weighing the liquid volume of uniformly sized and trimmed brass takes it to a whole other level again. The Rifle, the Reloader, and the shooter have to be very very good before weighing liquid volume of same headstamp brass will have a chance to show any benefit .... if at all. That said...I have sorted empty uniformly sized and trimmed brass by weight before when searching for max accuracy in a rifle I already know is good to minimize inconsistencies and to see what I can squeeze out of it and myself.

My 2 cents though...if you have a good reloading process and manage your brass batches yourself (no mixed headstamps) .... I think you will find that there are other areas to chase for accuracy when it comes to reloading that will have more benefit than weighing water volume of cases. Using same headstamp brass and managing them together for their useful life will get you a long way.....and once you find a true accuracy node for your rifle - a few fps's at the muzzle will make surprisingly little diff anyway unless you are shooting super long distance where everything matters.

if by "charged at 100%" you mean compressed??? My answer is .... I sort by headstamp (at a minimum) regardless if my loads are compressed or not, and the second part of that is .... I typically don't run compressed loads anyway.

If by "charged at 100%" you mean max charge from a load manual ..... then my answer is ..... absolutely begin working up load with same headstamp brass (not mixed) and look for pressure signs. IF you make it to max or approach max with no issues ...... if you change anything (such as brass) in the future ... you will need to work up again. My experience has been that I find most of my accuracy loads before max. And Again, if you loading mixed headstamp brass...don't approach max is my advise. (no reason to anyway imo)

(the only mixed brass I run is plinking with a well below max recipe that I have tested/proofed in my rifle with mixed brass so I know its gtg)

sorry for the wall of text but am kind of guessing at what you are asking ...

Please offer up some clarity of what you are asking and it'll help others respond and attempt to answer imo

Thank you Greenheadcaller,
I read about guys with excellent accuracy by using mixed brass and it has me wondering if they are using less than 100 % charge weight.
3006 150 nosler ABS , Imr 4064 with 52 grains is max at 91 % case volume. I know mixed headstamps have to be weighing at different weights and these guys must be using a consistent load.

I guess what I am asking is , since cases are different weights in the same lot , is it safe to have the accurate charge through out the differences ? I'm sorry for the confusion , I'm just trying to understand.

I've been reading my manuals and haven't come across weighing and sorting brass , unless I missed it.

Thanks again, Ray......

Ray. I think I understand what your question is.

In reality, weight sorting brass is not so much to allow you to fit the same amount of powder into each case. Most ideal charges are somewhat below the maximum case volume.

Why people pay attention to case weight is due to trying to make a load as accurate as possible. True case volume is a measure of the space the powder has to ignite in. Once the powder ignites, it generates pressure by gas expansion which is what drives the bullet down the barrel. If someone has 5 rounds with identical bullets, identical powder charges, and 5 different volume cases, they will likely not have the most accurate load due to potential pressure differences between the 5 mixed cases. If they take the same bullet, same load, and put it into 5 volume matched cases, their accuracy will likely be better.

Where case weighing comes in is that it is the simplest way to guestimate if individual cases are close to the same volume as others. If two cases with the same dimensions have the same weight of brass, they will be pretty close to the same volume. Ideally if they were made by the same manufacturer on the same day with the same machine...

Where mixing different lots of brass and different brands of brass comes in, it is very difficult to weigh brass and assume that it has the same volume if it weighs the same. This is because different batches of brass may be different alloys and have different weights, and different manufactures may draw the cases differently causing different thicknesses of brass. Sometimes, there can be enough difference in internal volumes between two lots of brass, that if you are running at maximum pressures (max loads) you can run into trouble if you switch between them without reworking your load.

Hope this helps, and hope others chip in and fill in any holes I left.

Hey Ray,
IMO, simple rules are don't mix brass (makers), don't mix primers, other than later on when you really know what's going on and maybe even then, don't mix lots of powder (powder has a lot number on the container), all bullets of the same weight are not the same as far as reloading and what happens (pressure, manufacturer etc.), don't pour one can of powder into another even if it's the same type, pay attention to what these people on this site say as they will not ever intentionally steer you wrong, seek out an experienced (the more experienced the better) reloader and pay attention to what they say, never exceed max loads, start low and always work up (if you want a 3000 fps load, start with the load at 2800 or so depending on the manual), buy as many manuals as you can reasonably afford (it can become an addiction :grin: ), check your scales regularly, buy a chronograph (may be one of the only ways to see when we are pushing too far) and did I say pay attention to these guys? Last, always keep learning. There is always something you don't know you don't know :grin:, and do not be afraid to ask questions! Darn, forgot one. Always document what you do, loads, accuracy and results(even when they're crappy)
This is a heckuva fun thing to do and rewarding but done without the proper information and backup (manuals, data, etc) you can really make a mess. Don't sweat it, the folks here will steer you right.

As I mentioned before in the post, the data that you received from these gentlemen is gold. If you have a printer, print it.

Good luck with your pursuit!

Thanks for the support fellas',
so in a nut shell , brass from the same lot weighing different weights won't hurt anything as long as my charge isn't at max or max pressure ?

I'm thinking I'm not too concerned with max velocity , my range could be 200 yard max for deer.
I know my velocity would be way over 1800 fps even with minimum load to obtain full expansion with the right powder .

I have imr 4064 and h 414 for my 150 gr. and h 4350 for my 165 gr.

Truly, thanks again .

Brass from the same manufacturer lot should be pretty close in weight, volume and dimensions. If you develop a safe load using this brass, there shouldn't be a worry that a random case could cause an over pressure problem. If you decide to switch to different brass, you should rework the load starting at a lower charge and work back up to find your most desired safe load.

The challenge can be found when using different brands at the same time when one brand has thin walls and the other has thick walls. This can lead to enough pressure difference to cause problems at max pressures. A charge might be hot but tolerable in one brand while the same charge may be over pressure in another brand.

Some people might argue that there is not enough difference between different brands to worry, but the good Lord only gave each of us two hands and two eyes so I don't mix lots and brands.

And as DWH said. This is a load of fun and very addictive. I learn something new fairly often right here on the Nosler forum and then usually go spend more money to use what I learned.

Good deal !
I'm not wanting to mix brass by the way, but you guys definitely cleared things up totally. I want to be safe as possible, so that's why I have to know these major details.

I won't worry with weighing the brass then from the same lot and I will just work it up to accuracy and hopefully I'll be just under max .

Thanks again !!!!!!

I would recommend that it is probably a good idea to verify how uniform the brass weight is within a same lot number. I once had a major problem that was only corrected when I checked how uniform the brass weight is. If by chance you are using Nosler brass, this step can be omitted.
Keith

I buy brass by brand for uniformity. I use the same brass and same lot of powder each year for loading each cartridge. The best way to measure max loads is with a chronometer watching velocity and pressure to find your peak for both velocity and pressure.

Ray,

If you can, I'd recommend you find out your internal H2O capacity of your cases. This information can be compared to the components that were used in the published data. It's another safeguard that can help prevent excessive pressures and give you a clue about the performance of your load. If your case's capacity is less than what was used in developing published data, you will most likely reach the max load while still being under the published data. You may see higher velocities than published as well. If your case's capacity is larger, you may not see the same velocity that was published for that charge. My cases for several calibers vary from Nosler's tested case capacity by upwards of -/+ 2-4 grains. Makes a huge difference when working with H110.

Ever hear of the saying, "If you have to ask about doing something, you shouldn't do it?" IMO, that is terribly wrong when it comes to reloading. Ask! It's how we learn and asking could save you from Kabooms. Asking is certainly better than going the trial and error route.

Thanks for the response on this subject.
When I look at published data for 3006 starting at 110 grain bullet weights , the h2o capacity changes with different bullet weights and seating depths .

I totally got caught up in the moment forgot that they list the usable case capacity, with the bullet seated. My bad. I'm so used to QuickLoad calculating it that I just rolled with it.

So am I good to go as far as not being concerned about weighing cases from the same lot ?

With good brass (Norma, Nosler, etc) that is true.

OK , I have 50 of the Nosler brass , some of the case mouths are deformed a little , what's the best method to straighten , full size or what ?

Just to add, the only bullet I've found max load to work best is the Barnes bullets.
They favor a hot load but one still has to work up to it as chambers are different in each rifle. One grain below max is where I usually start with the Barnes bullets but I suggest one start at least 2.5 grains under max for long action rifle loads with the Barnes bullets and work up in half grain increments.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

RAY":2ops5edx said:

OK , I have 50 of the Nosler brass , some of the case mouths are deformed a little , what's the best method to straighten , full size or what ?

Click to expand...

You could use an expander mandrel; but the simplest way is to simply full length resize the brass.

DrMike":tbizryud said:

RAY":tbizryud said:

OK , I have 50 of the Nosler brass , some of the case mouths are deformed a little , what's the best method to straighten , full size or what ?

Click to expand...

You could use an expander mandrel; but the simplest way is to simply full length resize the brass.

Click to expand...

Good deal thanks !

I just use an expander button to straighten the necks. They usually are just bent a little from UPS kicking the package.