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 Post subject: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:11 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 42
I am reloading for a Savage 116 7mm mag with 23in factory fluted barrel with factory muzzle brake.

I currently load Nosler Accubond and ballistic tip in 140 and 150 grain using imr4350 with excellent results. I want to try the heavier 168gr berger vld hunter classic, my question is should I use a powder with a slower burn rate for the heavier bullet. If so how slow do I go.. According to the powder burn rate charts imr4350 is somewhat faster than most 7mm powders I have seen recommended, I chose it because of the published velocity in the Nosler 7 manual..

I have reloader 22, Retumbo, H1000, 4831sc, 4007ssc, imr 4064. I read a lot about Retumbo RL22 and H1000 but not sure which powder to use with the 168 berger and 23in barrel as most loads I see are usually 26in barrels.. on the burn rate chart RL22 is about the middle of the road between the faster imr4350 and the slower Retumbo and H1000....


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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:18 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Idaho
R-22, H-1000, and IMR4831 will all work. I would focus on H-1000 first and R-22 second if it was me.


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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 21013
Location: Northern Virginia
IdahoCTD wrote:
R-22, H-1000, and IMR4831 will all work. I would focus on H-1000 first and R-22 second if it was me.


Yup, same here..

I would also look at RL25, working real well with the 168 ABLR's in my 7mm WSM and 7mm Rem Mag.

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 97 63.90 2642 2603 43973 12743 96.3 1.365
-09.0 98 64.61 2675 2669 45570 12889 96.8 1.342
-08.0 99 65.32 2708 2735 47232 13028 97.3 1.319
-07.0 100 66.03 2741 2802 48960 13161 97.7 1.297
-06.0 101 66.74 2774 2870 50763 13286 98.1 1.274
-05.0 102 67.45 2807 2939 52637 13403 98.5 1.253
-04.0 103 68.16 2840 3008 54591 13513 98.8 1.231
-03.0 104 68.87 2873 3079 56627 13614 99.1 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 106 69.58 2906 3150 58747 13707 99.3 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 107 70.29 2939 3222 60967 13791 99.5 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 108 71.00 2972 3295 63279 13867 99.7 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 109 71.71 3005 3368 65694 13933 99.8 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 110 72.42 3038 3442 68216 13990 99.9 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 111 73.13 3070 3517 70854 14037 100.0 1.092 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 112 73.84 3103 3592 73612 14074 100.0 1.074 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 113 74.55 3136 3668 76499 14106 100.0 1.055 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 108 71.00 3111 3610 77569 13289 100.0 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 108 71.00 2769 2861 51012 13689 94.6 1.268


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Retumbo

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 99 66.35 2662 2643 41994 13515 98.8 1.402
-09.0 100 67.09 2695 2710 43520 13637 99.1 1.378
-08.0 101 67.82 2729 2778 45108 13750 99.4 1.354
-07.0 102 68.56 2762 2846 46761 13852 99.6 1.331
-06.0 103 69.30 2795 2915 48482 13943 99.8 1.308
-05.0 104 70.03 2828 2984 50273 14022 99.9 1.286
-04.0 106 70.77 2861 3054 52141 14089 100.0 1.264
-03.0 107 71.51 2894 3125 54085 14146 100.0 1.242
-02.0 108 72.25 2927 3196 56112 14198 100.0 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 109 72.98 2960 3267 58228 14249 100.0 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 73.72 2992 3339 60434 14298 100.0 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 111 74.46 3024 3412 62735 14346 100.0 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 112 75.19 3056 3484 65142 14392 100.0 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 113 75.93 3088 3558 67656 14437 100.0 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 76.67 3120 3632 70282 14480 100.0 1.101 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 115 77.41 3152 3706 73031 14522 100.0 1.082 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 73.72 3129 3653 75644 13691 100.0 1.079 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 73.72 2780 2883 47910 14633 97.4 1.310


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 89 59.85 2669 2657 45562 12908 97.8 1.368
-09.0 90 60.52 2699 2716 47074 13042 98.1 1.347
-08.0 91 61.18 2728 2776 48635 13170 98.4 1.326
-07.0 92 61.85 2758 2837 50246 13292 98.7 1.306
-06.0 93 62.51 2787 2898 51909 13410 99.0 1.286
-05.0 94 63.18 2817 2960 53626 13521 99.2 1.266
-04.0 95 63.84 2846 3022 55399 13626 99.4 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 96 64.51 2876 3084 57230 13725 99.6 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 65.17 2905 3147 59121 13818 99.7 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 98 65.84 2934 3211 61074 13904 99.8 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 66.50 2963 3275 63092 13984 99.9 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 100 67.17 2992 3339 65177 14057 100.0 1.156 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 101 67.83 3021 3404 67333 14123 100.0 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 102 68.50 3049 3469 69561 14184 100.0 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 69.16 3078 3534 71865 14242 100.0 1.106 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 104 69.83 3106 3599 74247 14300 100.0 1.090 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 66.50 3084 3549 75711 13477 100.0 1.086 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 66.50 2786 2894 50666 13964 96.2 1.291


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : IMR 4831

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 86 54.90 2623 2567 47082 11321 100.0 1.367
-09.0 87 55.51 2648 2616 48509 11392 100.0 1.348
-08.0 88 56.12 2673 2666 49974 11463 100.0 1.329
-07.0 89 56.73 2698 2716 51480 11532 100.0 1.310
-06.0 90 57.34 2723 2766 53027 11601 100.0 1.292
-05.0 91 57.95 2748 2816 54617 11669 100.0 1.274
-04.0 92 58.56 2772 2867 56251 11737 100.0 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 93 59.17 2796 2917 57931 11803 100.0 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 59.78 2821 2968 59657 11870 100.0 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 95 60.39 2845 3019 61431 11935 100.0 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 61.00 2869 3070 63254 12000 100.0 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 97 61.61 2893 3121 65129 12064 100.0 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 97 62.22 2916 3173 67057 12127 100.0 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 98 62.83 2940 3225 69040 12190 100.0 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 63.44 2964 3277 71079 12251 100.0 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 100 64.05 2987 3329 73176 12312 100.0 1.113 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 61.00 2953 3252 74249 11642 100.0 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 61.00 2741 2804 52115 12467 99.7 1.297


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 87 59.85 2668 2655 44768 12952 96.3 1.358
-09.0 88 60.52 2699 2717 46285 13099 96.8 1.337
-08.0 89 61.18 2730 2779 47857 13241 97.2 1.316
-07.0 90 61.85 2760 2843 49485 13377 97.6 1.295
-06.0 91 62.51 2791 2906 51171 13508 97.9 1.275
-05.0 92 63.18 2822 2971 52916 13632 98.3 1.255
-04.0 93 63.84 2853 3036 54729 13750 98.6 1.236
-03.0 94 64.51 2884 3102 56606 13862 98.9 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 65.17 2914 3168 58552 13967 99.1 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 96 65.84 2945 3235 60570 14066 99.3 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 66.50 2975 3303 62665 14158 99.5 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 98 67.17 3006 3371 64838 14242 99.7 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 99 67.83 3036 3439 67093 14320 99.8 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 100 68.50 3067 3508 69436 14389 99.9 1.108 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 69.16 3097 3578 71857 14452 100.0 1.091 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 102 69.83 3127 3647 74362 14506 100.0 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 66.50 3109 3605 75929 13639 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 66.50 2785 2894 50528 13938 94.5 1.277


Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 83 54.90 2614 2550 47437 11392 98.9 1.337
-09.0 84 55.51 2640 2600 48826 11496 99.1 1.319
-08.0 85 56.12 2665 2650 50253 11597 99.3 1.301
-07.0 86 56.73 2691 2701 51718 11694 99.4 1.283
-06.0 86 57.34 2716 2752 53222 11787 99.6 1.266
-05.0 87 57.95 2741 2803 54767 11876 99.7 1.250
-04.0 88 58.56 2767 2855 56353 11961 99.8 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 89 59.17 2792 2907 57982 12041 99.9 1.217 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 90 59.78 2816 2959 59655 12118 99.9 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 91 60.39 2841 3011 61373 12189 100.0 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 92 61.00 2866 3064 63138 12257 100.0 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 93 61.61 2890 3116 64952 12320 100.0 1.154 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 94 62.22 2915 3169 66815 12383 100.0 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 95 62.83 2939 3222 68730 12445 100.0 1.125 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 96 63.44 2963 3275 70698 12506 100.0 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 97 64.05 2987 3329 72721 12566 100.0 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 61.00 2956 3260 73044 11870 100.0 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 61.00 2733 2786 53169 12389 97.7 1.265

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:56 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 42
Thanks IdahoCTD and sjb358, im still learning burn rates and bullet weight combinations.. that quickload program is something serious.. that may be something I have to look into, as well as a chrono!

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 8229
Location: Washington State
I've had excellent results from RL-22, using 160 - 175 gr bullets.


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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 23400
Location: Northern British Columbia
Big Norm wrote:
That quickload program is something serious.. that may be something I have to look into, as well as a chrono!


Indeed! +1

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 395
Location: CO
H4831SC is the go to powder for 7m Rem. Mag. All my research I did for a friend pointed to this and he did the exact combo (H4831SC 168 Berger combo) and it worked well. I cannot remember the load off the top of my head I will try and contact him tomorrow for it. You have a great combination though, that 168 Berger will handle everything from deer to black bears and the external ballistics will not disappoint you. I am speaking from exposure from the last four years watching my brother and father taking game from 137 yards to 600 yards with the 210 Berger out of a .300 Win Mag. The most amy animal has gone is ten yards, and that was my fathers bear Taken at 137 yards. I did take a coyote ay 883 yards and the 210 Berger worked superbly, I would expect that the 168 Berger would administer similar results.


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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:15 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 21013
Location: Northern Virginia
.300winmag wrote:
H4831SC is the go to powder for 7m Rem. Mag. All my research I did for a friend pointed to this and he did the exact combo (H4831SC 168 Berger combo) and it worked well. I cannot remember the load off the top of my head I will try and contact him tomorrow for it. You have a great combination though, that 168 Berger will handle everything from deer to black bears and the external ballistics will not disappoint you. I am speaking from exposure from the last four years watching my brother and father taking game from 137 yards to 600 yards with the 210 Berger out of a .300 Win Mag. The most amy animal has gone is ten yards, and that was my fathers bear Taken at 137 yards. I did take a coyote ay 883 yards and the 210 Berger worked superbly, I would expect that the 168 Berger would administer similar results.



Here is some H4831SC data...

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 168, Berger VLD #28501
Useable Case Capaci: 72.308 grain H2O = 4.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 SC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 52.40 2326 2018 32992 10494 90.4 1.573
-18.0 80 53.71 2384 2120 35219 10834 91.6 1.530
-16.0 82 55.02 2442 2224 37596 11164 92.8 1.487
-14.0 84 56.33 2500 2332 40134 11483 93.8 1.442
-12.0 86 57.64 2559 2442 42842 11790 94.8 1.397
-10.0 87 58.95 2617 2555 45708 12084 95.8 1.355
-08.0 89 60.26 2675 2670 48750 12362 96.6 1.314
-06.0 91 61.57 2734 2788 51995 12625 97.3 1.274
-04.0 93 62.88 2792 2908 55460 12870 98.0 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 64.19 2850 3031 59161 13096 98.6 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 65.50 2908 3155 63117 13303 99.1 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 99 66.81 2966 3282 67350 13488 99.4 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 68.12 3024 3411 71885 13651 99.7 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 69.43 3082 3543 76747 13791 99.9 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 70.74 3139 3675 81968 13906 100.0 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 72.05 3196 3810 87582 13999 100.0 1.005 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 65.50 3031 3428 74634 12963 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 65.50 2739 2798 51763 13005 94.0 1.271

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:05 pm
Posts: 7754
Location: I-5 Lala Land North, Washington State
I use the 160 Nosler Partition and IMR7828 (66.0 grains) and a Fed 215 Mag Match. I need to chronograph this load again but I won't change the load for two reasons. It is a maximum load for my chamber and that bullet with W-W cases. Secondly, it is a very accurate load to at least 300 yards in my rifle which counts more for me than another 50 fps in muzzle velocity.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 21013
Location: Northern Virginia
Oldtrader3 wrote:
I use the 160 Nosler Partition and IMR7828 (66.0 grains) and a Fed 215 Mag Match. I need to chronograph this load again but I won't change the load for two reasons. It is a maximum load for my chamber and that bullet with W-W cases. Secondly, it is a very accurate load to at least 300 yards in my rifle which counts more for me than another 50 fps in muzzle velocity.


Without a doubt Charlie. That's why I wanted a 7mm Rem Mag when I started. 160's at 3000.

Bob Hagel was in my head alot back then. He was pretty fond of that combo, and now, along time later, I see why.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:05 pm
Posts: 7754
Location: I-5 Lala Land North, Washington State
Scotty, Bob Hagel was a very knowledgeable handloading expert. I have one of his books on handloading and I have always paid close attention to him and a few others because they did what they talked about and had extensive experience before they started talking. Hagel was one of those.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 8229
Location: Washington State
Charlie - using the knowledge of others is a great shortcut to coming up with effective loads.

I used to stare at the myriad loads in the various manuals and wonder how in the heck to pick one... Hopefully the right one. Without buying a pound each of six or seven different powders and a few different bullets...

Along the way I learned some good shortcuts. Somebody, sometime has likely used any given cartridge extensively and has in depth knowledge of it. That somebody may well be a "gun writer" or it may well be some ballistics guy at Nosler, Hornady or Sierra... Or maybe a top tier rifle competitor, or a group of competitors.

When I started working with the 7mm Rem mag and 160's, I wanted that 3,000 fps level performance, and good accuracy. My shortcut was to telephone the guys at Sierra and ask. Ten minutes of conversation yielded a recommendation that has worked for me for years. I still pass on the recommendation of RL-22 and the 160 for anybody seeking a good 7mm mag load, because it worked so well for me.

With the .308 Win, I was the beneficiary of thousands of competitive riflemen across the country who were starting to use Varget shortly after it was introduced. Wow... I picked up a couple of hundred fps by switching powders and didn't lose any accuracy... Nice for 600 yard competition, which I was very interested in at that time. It was a widely known and well respected "accuracy load" - and it's worked for me in every .308 I've ever loaded for. A fine shortcut!

Easiest of all was the first .375 H&H I bought, that Ruger Number One. Turns out it was formerly owned by gun writer John Barsness, and he used it extensively at the range and on various hunts. I grabbed some loads from one of his old magazine articles, about that very rifle, and duplicated them. Yes, another OUTSTANDING shortcut. John was kind enough to return some PM's over on 24 Hour Campfire, confirming that it was his old rifle, and gave me a few hints to loading for it as well. Yes, that was a very easy and effective shortcut to good handloads.

Here on the Nosler Reloading forum, I like the way a shooter can ask for information about handloading a cartridge, and there's always someone with excellent experience who can provide at least a starting point for them. Maybe not "the load" for their particular rifle, but likely pretty doggone close.

Big Norm - I still say, go with the RL-22 and 160 - 168 gr bullets... H4831 isn't bad, but RL-22 worked out better for me... :mrgreen:

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Location: Northern Virginia
Oldtrader3 wrote:
Scotty, Bob Hagel was a very knowledgeable handloading expert. I have one of his books on handloading and I have always paid close attention to him and a few others because they did what they talked about and had extensive experience before they started talking. Hagel was one of those.


I think I have all of his books. Between him, EK and a few others is probably why I'm so fond of the 338 and 35's. His books seem like they are written from experience from the field.

Guy, your spot on. That's how I've gleaned some great loads over the years. Shutting up and listening and watching you all.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 42
Had a range day today woth the 168 berger vld hunter and loaded from rounds from 67gr to 70.4 gr with bullet seated 0.010 off rifling.. while none were to bad, they weren't what im use to with this rifle... they all seemed to shoot the same.. 1 1/4-1 1/2 inch groups

What I didnt expect was the point of impact to be over 4 inches higher than what the p.o.i for the 150gr ballistic tip..

But as I said, they groups weren't to bad. Guess ill pick a load and start playint with seating depth.. these were loaded .010 off lands and grooves.. guess ill pick one and adjust seating depth .030, .050, 0.70, and .100

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Which powder?

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
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Sorry.... H1000

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
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Location: Northern British Columbia
Big Norm wrote:
H1000


Classic powder for the 7RM.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
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SJB358, can you please run a quick load using 4350 and nosler 140 and 150 ballistic tip please.. my current load is 63gr 4350 for the 140gr and 62gr for the 150gr bt

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Big Norm, I use the same loads in my 7mm Rem Mag with the 140 and 150 grain Ballistic Tips.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:50 am 
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Big Norm wrote:
SJB358, can you please run a quick load using 4350 and nosler 140 and 150 ballistic tip please.. my current load is 63gr 4350 for the 140gr and 62gr for the 150gr bt

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No worries.

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 150, Nosler BalTip 28150
Useable Case Capaci: 74.094 grain H2O = 4.811 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 73 49.60 2410 1934 32793 10020 92.9 1.503
-18.0 75 50.84 2465 2024 34793 10315 93.9 1.469
-16.0 77 52.08 2520 2115 36902 10601 94.8 1.436
-14.0 78 53.32 2575 2208 39127 10876 95.7 1.396
-12.0 80 54.56 2630 2303 41474 11141 96.5 1.357
-10.0 82 55.80 2684 2400 43948 11393 97.2 1.319
-08.0 84 57.04 2738 2497 46558 11633 97.8 1.283
-06.0 86 58.28 2792 2597 49309 11859 98.4 1.249
-04.0 88 59.52 2846 2698 52212 12070 98.9 1.215
-02.0 89 60.76 2899 2800 55274 12265 99.2 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 91 62.00 2952 2903 58505 12445 99.6 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 93 63.24 3005 3007 61915 12608 99.8 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 95 64.48 3057 3112 65517 12753 99.9 1.094 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 97 65.72 3108 3218 69323 12880 100.0 1.066 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 99 66.96 3160 3325 73345 12992 100.0 1.039 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 100 68.20 3210 3433 77600 13101 100.0 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 91 62.00 3061 3121 67926 12094 100.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 91 62.00 2799 2610 49104 12304 95.6 1.250



Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler BalTip 28140
Useable Case Capaci: 74.765 grain H2O = 4.854 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 74 50.40 2463 1886 32060 9956 91.4 1.472
-18.0 75 51.66 2520 1975 34027 10260 92.5 1.438
-16.0 77 52.92 2577 2065 36105 10557 93.5 1.406
-14.0 79 54.18 2634 2157 38299 10843 94.5 1.369
-12.0 81 55.44 2691 2251 40615 11119 95.4 1.331
-10.0 83 56.70 2748 2347 43060 11384 96.2 1.294
-08.0 85 57.96 2804 2445 45640 11637 96.9 1.258
-06.0 86 59.22 2861 2544 48364 11877 97.6 1.224
-04.0 88 60.48 2917 2644 51240 12102 98.2 1.191
-02.0 90 61.74 2972 2746 54278 12313 98.7 1.159
+00.0 92 63.00 3028 2850 57486 12508 99.1 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 94 64.26 3083 2954 60876 12686 99.5 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 96 65.52 3137 3060 64459 12848 99.7 1.071 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 97 66.78 3192 3167 68249 12991 99.9 1.043 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 99 68.04 3245 3274 72260 13115 100.0 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 101 69.30 3299 3383 76507 13222 100.0 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 63.00 3147 3079 66881 12216 100.0 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 63.00 2864 2550 48151 12253 94.5 1.226

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 42
Thanks sjb358

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:04 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Boise, Idaho
I'm shooting a 280AI, my load currently is retumbo, 215M, 168gr accubond LR.
At 200 yards I can put 4 bullets in the size of a quarter. I have not chronoed the load yet as I was more concerned with a good group.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:50 pm
Posts: 79
168 gr Berger in my Sako 85 with 24 inch barrel works great with Retumbo 74 gr.
I get 3025 Fps and very accurate. Retumbo is very stable velocity wise for this load.
For 160 AB RL-22 works well.
A good thing is when both loads are shot at the same velocity they have the same point of impact.
I wish I could get 150 LR AB and 168 LR AB. I did not see them yet at MidwayUSA.
I love reloading.
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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Location: I-5 Lala Land North, Washington State
I chronographed my 7mm Rem Mag loads last week at the range. The 150 BT with 63.0 grains of IMR 4350 clocked at 3000+/-, adjusted for the 10 foot Chrono distance. The 160 grain Partition on the other hand only got about 2900 fps with 66.0 grains of IMR 7828 SSC @ 10 foot Chrono distance. This is less than it chrono'ed 10 years ago in California. Some of that is ambient temperature (95* vs 65*F) some of that is throat erosion from 40+ years of shooting this rifle.

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 Post subject: Re: 7mm mag 23in barrel 168 berger hunter classic
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:43 pm
Posts: 42
Sounds great Oldtrader3, im in the process of choosing a 26in barrel for my 7mag.. so hopefully I get to chrono some loads here soon

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