Growing storm in B.C. Residents vs guides

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e22097825/

http://www.thenorthernview.com/opinion/ ... 34911.html

There is a growing backlash against the biggest group of guide/outfitters (GOABC) here in B.C. It seems they supported the current government in it's re election and now are being paid back. It came out last week that they had successfully lobbied the government for a big increase in the numbers of permits they will get, depending on the species from 80/20% for elk and moose to 60/40% for animals like sheep, grizzly and goats. Basically 4000 out of province hunters will get 20% of elk and moose and 40% of the other animals and 100,000+ residents will get 80 and 60% respectively. In other jurisdictions in N.A. it averages 90/10% in favor of residents and here in B.C. it was already 80/20% so the guides had a great deal already.

Now there is a big backlash against GOABC and time will tell where it all ends. At first the government and guides were trying to just tell the rest of us that we need to unite against the anti's and work together in other words we can treat you like crap when we want and renegotiate a 2007 agreement behind our backs and we want you to just take it. There have been many letters sent to the government by residents including myself because the average taxpayer/hunter is being taken advantage of on one side we have the guides and on the other we have lost a huge amount of hunting in favor to the natives so many of us feel we really need to fight now to stop the slow destruction of our rights.

This has been brewing for many years. While guiding brings in cash to the province, there are unnecessary clashes occurring in the back-country. Some individuals holding guiding territories--not even residents or citizens of Canada--become seriously protective, even attempting to run off resident hunters. You may be assured that I will send off correspondence with my MLA, though he is a Liberal hack that will do the bidding of the Ms. Clark.

I just wrote our MLA who is NDP who are not a friend to the average hunter but will likely enjoy taking the government to task over this.

I don't know where this will all lead but it is safe to say the face of hunting is about to change here in B.C. Thankfully and even surprisingly hunters are starting to be viewed in a better light here as people realize that hunting brings in the best meat one can get, people are beginning to realize the stuff they pass off as meat in the grocery store isn't good for you but a sustainable hunt for organic free range meat is looking better all the time :lol: After years of decline in hunter numbers it is encouraging to find out there has been a 20% increase in the amount of new resident hunters now.

In the eyes of the public "trophy hunters" aren't looked well on and I can tell you certainly a lot of meat from the guiding industry is left in the bush or is feed to dogs, that was my experience from what I saw in my 2 year guiding career. Along with a significant amount of illegal activity that is the dirty little secret of the guiding industry. I do realize that not all are like that but there are a lot who are.

Don't like hearing about local experts being ignored to satisfy a special interest group. Happens down here all the time. I did find it interesting there was an issue in the first place. We're planning a BC hunt in 2016 up north for elk. Been talking to several outfitters over the last couple years at the sportsman shows we attend. Got the impression it was always an OTC tag. I have a whole new list of questions now.
The last thing I want to do is be part of the problem.

Since it is a backroom deal there us much to be known about it still, in time all the facts will come out. It would be interesting to see what they say to you.

Yes it will, I'll be well read on BC regulations by the end of January when the show circuit starts.

That is not a good thing. The resident hunter should have first rights and they pay the majority of the taxes and truly are the people who take the most responsibility in looking after game populations & habitat.
I sure hope this get straightened.

one would think that outfitters wouldn't fight quite so much for a larger quota. if it is a smaller quota then they can justifiably charge more per client and give each one more attention since it would be one at a time not one outfitter dealing with a larger group and hoping their guides are doing the right thing

Many of the outfitters are non-residents. They see money and the greater their volume of clients, the better from their perspective.

As a person who views BC as one of the top destinations on my bucket list (stone sheep), I hope all works out well for you. The people who reside in the province and are the care givers of the land should always come first. Just another example of how money and greed corrupts...

Residence should have the numbers over outfitters as far as votes go. My guess is most hunters have a more conservative view in general. I'd say your Liberal government is teaching the voters a lesson. Much the same as how they taught Albertans they don't need or want our exports! Be damned having a boost in the economy. Similar to Obummers view of keystone.

Our fight is a little more complicated and perhaps even more far reaching, but the same liberal villains are involved. I feel the pain of our BC brothers.

Gerry, Dr Mike--- we currently have complete or some restriction on the Chisana Caribou, Cougars, Muskox, Polar Bear, and Whale. Do you have a group of animals on your "cannot hunt list" gentlemen. Actually we ( First Nation ) can hunt Muskox and Polar Bear for food and clothing and very recently it looks like whale again, but not the Cougar or Chisana. Our fight goes beyond just the members of government, but I wont get on that soap box again

Mountain caribou are protected in this immediate area; we have to go quite a ways north to hunt them. I do occasionally see them, and find their spoor and scat even more frequently, so I know they are still in this area. Other than that, most everything is open to be hunted. However, the pressure of much of the resource is increasing as more people from the Lower Mainland travel north to hunt. The expansion of allocation to the guide outfitters will increase pressure on the resource as the resident population is not going to cut back on their own harvest willingly. This is our family's meat in many instances, and it isn't just a question of wanting to hunt.

I can only speak about my area of B.C. we have a lot of fish, bears and mountain goats here so it isn't the same as other species. Moose are down a lot but starting to rebuild a bit slowly and we have a few deer, the caribou disappeared in the 1970's due to extremely heavy snows but it looks like elk are moving west slowly. Right now non native hunters need to get a permit for moose (8 years and counting for me) or hunt in a one week season. There are some opportunities for bow hunters as well. We have had a very large area taken away from non native hunters very close to where I live which is too bad since I know where there are some great spots to hunt moose there. YH, that is as accurate of a picture as I can give you of the immediate area here.

In a time where so much has been taken from us we then find out about this new policy which has many of us very upset because as Mike said this is our food supply and it just isn't right in the first place. It is true that last year the government changed the rules to allow foreign corporations to own guiding territories and now they want more. I find them to be just as bad as the anti hunters since they claim to be our friends but work against us at every turn. They add very little to game management, habitat projects and the like but the residents of this province sure do. The GOABC is the problem right now not all the other guides, I am not actually against guiding but they need to have less not more.

Gerry, Dr Mike---thank you

Gerry, I hope your luck in getting a moose permit comes through for you --next year would be a good time. There are more people than first nation people who hunt for substance and to limit their opportunities while increasing the opportunities of foreign corporations is just wrong. The key word here is "increasing" and it is also the "creep" effect that upsets me. The first year we are only going to do "this" and they get everyone to sign on and then every year thereafter, they change what we originally agreed to.

I am sorry, this topic is something I get all worked up about and I have not even touched on the Polar Bear or Whale. Let me just say, I am in complete agreement with Dr mike and Gerry---plus I am one who feels that if you hunt for substance--honestly hunt for substance, as Dr Mike and Gerry do, there needs to be some consideration extended. I will get off my soap box now and go feed the dogs

Apparently, we need a few more soap boxes taken from the politicians and given to the voters of the province. :twisted: The tragedy is that once a freedom or a right is taken from the citizens, it is well nigh impossible for it to be restored.

The BCWF has a petition that you can fill out. Make sure you do. Also go to the GOABC Facebook page...if you facebook. It is interesting to see them try and justify their stuff.

Here is something directly from their FB page... good ol politics!

TROPHY WEST GUIDE OUTFITTERS LTD

2005/04/14

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

TROPHY WEST GUIDE OUTFITTERS LTD

2005/05/11

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTERS INC

2005/05/17

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

NORTH ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTING LTD

2005/04/14

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

IRENE FYFE

NORTH ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTING LTD

2005/05/11

$250.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

IRENE FYFE

NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2005/04/26

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DAK DRINKALL

DIXIE HAMMETT

NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2005/05/05

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DAK DRINKALL

DIXIE HAMMETT

VANCOUVER ISLAND GUIDE OUTFITTERS INC

2009/05/01

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

2

NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2009/04/16

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DALE DRINKALL

CHRIS SCHIPPMANN

NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2009/05/12

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DALE DRINKALL

CHRIS SCHIPPMANN

SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2009/05/12

$2,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

STEVEN LEUENBERGER

STEFANIE LEUENBERGER

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2010/11/23

$525.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

SCOTT ELLIS

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2010/11/23

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

SCOTT ELLIS

NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION

2011/03/04

$375.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

KEN WATSON

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION

2011/03/04

$375.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

KEN WATSON

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION

2011/11/08

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

KEN WATSON

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCATION

2011/11/08

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DAVE HOOPER

MIKE WERNER

SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2011/11/08

$2,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

STEVEN LEUENBERGER

STEFANIE LEUENBERGER

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2011/11/08

$8,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2012/06/29

$200.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

STEVEN LEUENBERGER

STEFANIE LEUENBERGER

SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2012/08/23

$1,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

STEVEN LEUENBERGER

STEFANIE LEUENBERGER

SOUTHERN GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2012/09/29

$3,600.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

STEVEN LEUENBERGER

STEFANIE LEUENBERGER

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2012/02/29

$850.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2012/04/13

$3,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2012/07/31

$25.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2012/10/31

$75.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2013/03/01

$2,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2013/03/28

$12,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION OF BC

2013/05/09

$2,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

MIKE WERNER

MIKE YOUNG

GUIDE OUTFITTERS OF CARIBOO

2013/04/30

$2,000.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

SCOTT ELLIS

STUART MAITLAND

NORTH CENTRAL GUIDE OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION

2013/06/03

$1,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

KEN WATSON

MICHAEL SCHNEIDER

NORTHERN BC GUIDES ASSOCIATION

2013/03/28

$2,500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DAK DRINKALL

DIXIE HAMMETT

NORTHWEST GUIDES & OUTFITTERS ASSOCIATION

2013/06/05

$500.00

BC LIBERAL PARTY

6

DAVE HOOPER

MIKE WERNER

Well, we can understand how the Liberal Party benefits. Pity they didn't contribute to the Conservatives. Our candidate could have used the help.

It seems no matter where you live or what your involved in there's always a special interest group that buys off politicians for their own benefit.( lawyers & Judges also )

I have seen the wisdom of government her in Alberta too. The keep throwing tags out here like the are printing out money. They hand out draws to people even after they 999 them to stay them to the next year, my whole family got theirs which used to be unheard of, especially after receiving in in year before. They blame game numbers on winter kill, but I blame tag #s for I lived long enough to know these winters are not the true root cause. I have never seen population this low in the forty years I've walked these woods, and I've traveled a lot of bush all over this Provence . I do blame government and insurence companies as well as other special interest groups for the state of our wild life in Alberta .