260 Rem Quickload request

deerhntr

Beginner
Sep 29, 2010
9
0
Been Lurking for a bit and figured I would finally make my first post. I am a 260 Rem diehard. Just love this caliber. Great on whitetails, and a dream to load and shoot. First got one about 11 years ago for my son as his first rifle, and been sold ever since. Now have 5 Abolt IIs in the safe. Wanted to squirrel a couple away for the grand kids.

I worked up a load a bit back with Nosler 120BT, 44.5 grn of IMR4350, rem 9 1/2 primers, rem cases. Groups real nice(Just over MOA at 100yds), 2828fps out of my Abolt II 22" barrel with a 1:10 twist.

I wanted to swap out the IMR4350 to H4350 since it is considered an extreme powder, and won't vary as much at colder temps, but was not sure if I could just drop in place of IMR. Everthing I have read indicates these 2 powders are ALMOST the same. But ....... Hence the quickload request.

My specs are:
Load: 260 Rem
Bullet: 120Grn Nosler BT. ---LOVE IT. Drops them in their tracks.
Powder: IMR4350, H4350 so I can compare the 2 from the simulation results
Case: Nolser Custom Brass.
Primer: Remington 9.5 LR
OAL: 2.8"

Your help on running a couple of simulations would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance! :)

Russ
(deerhntr)
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,729
2,717
Russ,

Welcome to the forum. I believe it to be one of the neatest stops in the vastness of cyberspace. The 260 Rem is a great cartridge for whitetails. Five in one chambering just about qualifies you as a gun crank! :lol: Welcome to rifle insanity.

H4350 is not identical to IMR4350, though the burn rates are similar.

Here's a QL projection with H4350 and the 120 grain BT.

Cartridge : .260 Rem
Bullet : .264, 120, Nosler BalTip 26120
Useable Case Capaci: 47.442 grain H2O = 3.080 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 35.60 2306 1416 30745 8173 86.5 1.445
-18.0 85 36.49 2362 1487 32765 8448 87.8 1.407
-16.0 87 37.38 2419 1559 34916 8717 89.0 1.369
-14.0 89 38.27 2476 1633 37208 8980 90.2 1.332
-12.0 92 39.16 2533 1710 39652 9237 91.4 1.293
-10.0 94 40.05 2590 1788 42259 9485 92.4 1.255
-08.0 96 40.94 2647 1868 45043 9724 93.4 1.218
-06.0 98 41.83 2705 1949 48001 9954 94.4 1.183
-04.0 100 42.72 2762 2033 51135 10174 95.3 1.149
-02.0 102 43.61 2820 2118 54478 10382 96.1 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 44.50 2877 2205 58049 10578 96.8 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 45.39 2934 2294 61868 10760 97.5 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 46.28 2992 2385 65954 10929 98.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 47.17 3049 2477 70333 11082 98.6 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 48.06 3106 2571 75030 11220 99.0 0.968 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 48.95 3163 2666 80075 11341 99.4 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 44.50 3012 2417 68554 10551 99.8 1.009 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 44.50 2702 1945 47813 10127 90.2 1.182

IMR4350 has a slightly flatter pressure curve with a similar peak pressure in comparison with H4350. Velocities would be so close as to be negligible. Whilst the temperature sensitivity has been a big selling feature for the Extreme Powders, I question whether you would see a significant drop in velocity with IMR4350 in cooler temperatures. The Extreme Powders were actually developed to avoid pressure problems at high temperatures. In any case, I'll post a QL projection with IMR4350 just for comparison. As is always true with QL, the advice is to use the coolest primer possible for consistent ignition.

Cartridge : .260 Rem
Bullet : .264, 120, Nosler BalTip 26120
Useable Case Capaci: 47.442 grain H2O = 3.080 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 35.60 2312 1424 30955 8199 86.8 1.441
-18.0 84 36.49 2368 1494 32991 8472 88.1 1.403
-16.0 86 37.38 2425 1567 35159 8740 89.3 1.365
-14.0 88 38.27 2482 1641 37469 9002 90.5 1.328
-12.0 90 39.16 2539 1718 39933 9257 91.6 1.289
-10.0 92 40.05 2596 1796 42561 9504 92.7 1.251
-08.0 94 40.94 2654 1876 45365 9741 93.7 1.214
-06.0 96 41.83 2711 1958 48338 9969 94.6 1.179
-04.0 98 42.72 2768 2042 51492 10187 95.5 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 100 43.61 2826 2128 54858 10392 96.3 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 44.50 2883 2215 58454 10585 97.0 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 45.39 2940 2304 62299 10765 97.6 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 46.28 2998 2394 66414 10931 98.2 1.021 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 108 47.17 3055 2486 70822 11081 98.7 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 111 48.06 3112 2580 75551 11216 99.1 0.965 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 48.95 3169 2675 80630 11334 99.4 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 44.50 3017 2425 69008 10540 99.8 1.007 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 44.50 2709 1955 48159 10151 90.5 1.178
 

deerhntr

Beginner
Sep 29, 2010
9
0
DrMike":1iuv69ce said:
Russ,

Welcome to the forum. I believe it to be one of the neatest stops in the vastness of cyberspace. The 260 Rem is a great cartridge for whitetails. Five in one chambering just about qualifies you as a gun crank! :lol: Welcome to rifle insanity.
Mike,

Thanks a bundle! As for the 5, yea... it is a bit nutty, but got to thinking how is was such a great first rifle for my son when he was 14, I decided to think about the grand kids when they get ready to begin the adventure. Honestly, we have never had a Pennsylvania whitetail go more 10 yards when shot with the 120BT. Just deadly.

As for this forum. I have been reading about two years, and you are right on the money. A great group of very knowledgeable gun nuts!

As for the 2 different powders. I just got to thinking and reading over the long summer, and thought I would try the H4350. As you data show the Pressures and velocities go, the are very close. I think I will load up some, and head out to the range, and gather some data. I will post it to the board when I finish the comparison.

Thanks again, and have a nice weekend.

Russ
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,729
2,717
Well, the 260 had better be good for grandchildren. I bought one last winter for my grandchildren. I added it to the 257 Roberts I already had.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,500
1,106
Welcome to the forum buddy. We're glad to have to have you here.

My 10 year old daughter is getting either a 260 rem or a 7mm-08 when she is of age.

Great cartridges both.
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,416
813
Welcome to the forum Russ! Great bunch of folks here. Some of the best guys around. The 260 is a great one! Scotty
 

bbearhntr

Handloader
Apr 10, 2011
553
0
Welcome aboard Russ. I have always wanted a .260 and will get one soon. I don't think you can find a better forum of gunuinely helpful members anywhere else.
 

257 Ackley

Handloader
Nov 25, 2008
1,763
0
Welcome to the forum...I love my .260 as well (only have one). I have only worked up loads with the 130 grain Accubonds and use R19 (little slower burning for the heavier bullet) with under .5 MOA groups. H414 is another good option if it doesn't like 19 for the heavier bullets.

Like Dr. Mike, I don't worry as much about whether I have an extreme powder for best results. The amount of velocity loss isn't enough to make a difference for most hunting we do in NA. If you work up a safe load in the summer, it will work well in the fall and only have minimal POI change when it cools down. Good luck
 

cooker300

Beginner
Oct 9, 2010
77
0
I'm getting ready to build a 260 rem on a savage 110 platform for my daughter(61/2) now. but she already loves going scouting with dad.

i have not yet read any negative things about the 260. and i like how it will handle the bigger game and is light in the recoil
 

caribouhunter

Beginner
Mar 31, 2009
216
3
ouff! you guys scare me!
i've been reloading for my wife's model7 in 260 for 2 years with 46.5 gr h-4350 for chronoed velocity of 2950 fps average. i used my Lee reloading book 120 gr jacketed bullet data for load development. they list 46.5 gr as max and velocity of 2960.

what do i do now? back off 2 grains?
accuracy was better at this max load then milder 43-45 gr loads ( 3/4")
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,416
813
caribouhunter":1yyzb7aj said:
ouff! you guys scare me!
i've been reloading for my wife's model7 in 260 for 2 years with 46.5 gr h-4350 for chronoed velocity of 2950 fps average. i used my Lee reloading book 120 gr jacketed bullet data for load development. they list 46.5 gr as max and velocity of 2960.

what do i do now? back off 2 grains?
accuracy was better at this max load then milder 43-45 gr loads ( 3/4")

CH, if you are getting good case life and no issues with pressures, ie sticky bolts, or primers falling out, I would be inclined to stick with it. Some rifles will allow a little more speed. If you accuracy is good and you feel it is safe, I would stick with it.. Just my opinion. Scotty
 

caribouhunter

Beginner
Mar 31, 2009
216
3
thank,s scotty
just checked on hodgdon data and max is the same at 46.5 for a 120 gr. spr sp.
is it the shape of the bullet that changes max load data?
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,416
813
Shape of the bullet (bearing surface), different rifles, different test techniques, cases, primers and everything effect it. Again, if it is safe and giving you good case life with no issues with your rifle, I would stick with it. Sounds like a great load.

How is that 7WSM shooting? I just got one and am slowly falling in love with it. What a great cartridge. Wished I would have bought one years ago. Scotty
 

wildgene

Handloader
Jul 4, 2011
1,597
0
beretzs":3idcodm8 said:
Shape of the bullet (bearing surface), different rifles, different test techniques, cases, primers and everything effect it. Again, if it is safe and giving you good case life with no issues with your rifle, I would stick with it. Sounds like a great load.

How is that 7WSM shooting? I just got one and am slowly falling in love with it. What a great cartridge. Wished I would have bought one years ago. Scotty

...just wait till ya get the .25 WSSM & .325 WSM, Scotty, you'll be falling in love all over again... :mrgreen:
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,416
813
wildgene":3orhlil5 said:
beretzs":3orhlil5 said:
Shape of the bullet (bearing surface), different rifles, different test techniques, cases, primers and everything effect it. Again, if it is safe and giving you good case life with no issues with your rifle, I would stick with it. Sounds like a great load.

How is that 7WSM shooting? I just got one and am slowly falling in love with it. What a great cartridge. Wished I would have bought one years ago. Scotty

...just wait till ya get the .25 WSSM & .325 WSM, Scotty, you'll be falling in love all over again... :mrgreen:

Gene, you are probably right. I have really given a bunch of thought into making the 25 Pronghorn or 25 WSM. I think that would be a sweet cartridge, that would run on par with the Weatherby and still be able to be chambered in a FWT with a little heavier barrel.

As for the 325, I am sure its day is coming. I like that cartridge a bunch too. Honestly, I like all of the WSM's and if I had to start over again, in todays rifle market, I would have all WSM's. Heck I would even do the 358 Sambar. Scotty
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,729
2,717
I just got one and am slowly falling in love with it.

Slowly falling love!??! Slowly falling in love!??! Man, there have few instances of such spout over tea kettle tumbles as when you first shot that 7mm WSM!
 

caribouhunter

Beginner
Mar 31, 2009
216
3
Thank's Scotty
I see no sign of pressure on the 260 even in hot weather so i'll keep the load then!
As for the 7 wsm i'd qualify the accuracy as erratic :roll: still trying to find what's the cause.
I only tried the scirocco 150 gr so far. But plan on trying the 140 AccuBond soon (as you saw)
I can get a good .7-.8" group and the next may be 2"
Last weekend i tried a group prone on bipod and got a 4" group at 200 yard :(
And it was 1,5" low, so yesterday i went back to 100 y. On the bench
First shot was 1" right and 1" high so i raised the adjustment 3 clicks , next shot was still
1" right but 3" high. So i tried to drop back down 1 click. Following shot was 2" low and 3 " left :?
I didn't touch the scope and fired another 3 shot group and got 2 shot side by side exacly 2" above bull's eye and 1 to the right for a 1,1" group.
So, don't know what to think of it. Is it the soft savage stock, the bullet, the shooter?
i dont have this problem with my 300 ultra, it's always dead on and sub-moa so for now i look somewhere else than my shooting.
Do you think that since i have a break on my ultra, it may help compensate for not so good shooting position as there's no muzzle lift? Recoil is about the same in both rifle. But the unbreaked 7 mm as a lot more muzzlelift and sometime after i recover from recoil it's not aimed at the target anymore. This is not happening with the ultra.

Sorry for highjacking the tread :oops:
 

highcotton

Beginner
Sep 28, 2010
82
4
Dad had a .260 put together for my 8 year old son. He shoots it very well- hoping to get him on his first SC whitetail this year. Loading 120 gr NBT's over IMR 4350. So far I really like this cartridge.
 
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