Do Ballistic Tips have a velocity at which they perform best? I have been reading reviews on Midway and it seems they fragment a close ranges over 3000fps. Any thoughts as I just order 6mm,6.5mm,.277,25cal,and 7mm Ballistic Tips for some load work for this fall.
Ballistic Tip Question
- Thread starter JohnD386
- Start date
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The 2013 Nosler Catalog rates them from 1800 to 3200 fps.
If that's any help?
Dewey
Ps:here's a bullet test video from Federal with the BT in it. I think Fotis posted this a while ago. Might help.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch...w.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKvetaM ... ata_player
[/url]
If that's any help?
Dewey
Ps:here's a bullet test video from Federal with the BT in it. I think Fotis posted this a while ago. Might help.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch...w.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKvetaM ... ata_player
[/url]
Jimbeaux82
Handloader
- Jan 6, 2011
- 408
- 179
I have used BT's very successfully in the following calibers, 243 Win (90-95 gr), 260 Rem (120 gr), 6.5 X 55 (120 gr), 270 Win (130, 140 gr), 7 mm Mag (Rem and Wea) (150 gr), 30/06 (150, 165 gr). I have killed deer cleanly and quickly from virtually the end of my gun barrel out to 550 yards. Even shooting with 7MM mags at 3200 fps, inside 25 yards, have had no issues. I think so long as you stay under 3200 fps you will not have any issues. I also try to stay with the heavier end of the bullet weights as a little extra insurance.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,755
- 5,846
JohnD386 - I'm a big fan of the Ballistic Tip.
Back in the 1980's when they were introduced I found them to be very accurate, but a little fragile. That "fragile" label has stuck with them for 25 years now, despite the fact that Nosler has quietly improved them, and improved them in a big way. The base section of the bullet jacket is now very thick and tough and really supports the lead as it mushrooms on expansion.
There are some great examples of expanded ballistic tips, on game and in test medium, in our "bullet test" section here. I think you'll find enough examples to set your mind at ease. Here's some examples of on-game performance:
Last fall three of us from this forum headed to Wyoming, hunting together for mule deer and pronghorn. We all used the ballistic tips.
I had a .25-06 with the 115 Ballistic Tips at 3120 fps.
Storm had a 7mm-08 with the 120 gr Ballistic Tips - I don't remember the velocity. About 3000 I think.
Steven had a .280 with the 120 Ballistic Tips at about 3200 fps if I recall correctly.
Each of us dropped mule deer and pronghorn with quick kills. I believe that each bullet also exited, not something to be expected of a "fragile" bullet.
A buddy of mine went to Africa for plains game with a .300 Win mag. I gave him some ammo loaded with 180 grain Ballistic Tip bullets. He and his professional hunter were extremely enthusiastic about the quick kills he was getting with those bullets. No tracking involved! In fact, they liked them better than the Partitions, for plains game.
When my youngest son started hunting about ten years ago, he was very recoil shy. I started him out with a mild-kicking 6mm Remington and handloaded 95 grain Ballistic Tips for his rifle. His first deer was a mulie doe at about 275 yards. The bullet went through her chest, destroyed the heart & lungs, and exited out through the off-side leg, shattering the leg bone, and continuing on. Needless to say, she dropped right there. Granted that wasn't at close range, but the performance of the little bullet was impressive all the same.
I shot a young whitetail buck in the shoulder/chest at about 70 yards, using my .308 Win and a 165 gr Ballistic Tip. Dropped him instantly, and the exit wound was about 2" high and 4" long. Devastating performance! MV of that ammo was somewhere around 2750 - 2800 fps.
Here's an example of a .30 caliber, 165 grain Ballistic Tip, recovered from the 5th water-filled gallon jug in some testing conducted a while back. Many hunting bullets don't make it to the 5th jug:
Most of my hunting is for deer sized game. I think the Ballistic Tip may well be the perfect bullet for that application. Excellent accuracy. Fast expansion. Tough enough to hang together and penetrate. All I want from a deer bullet.
Of course, if you want bullets that REALLY hang together, even better than that, get the bonded version, the AccuBond.
Regards, Guy
Back in the 1980's when they were introduced I found them to be very accurate, but a little fragile. That "fragile" label has stuck with them for 25 years now, despite the fact that Nosler has quietly improved them, and improved them in a big way. The base section of the bullet jacket is now very thick and tough and really supports the lead as it mushrooms on expansion.
There are some great examples of expanded ballistic tips, on game and in test medium, in our "bullet test" section here. I think you'll find enough examples to set your mind at ease. Here's some examples of on-game performance:
Last fall three of us from this forum headed to Wyoming, hunting together for mule deer and pronghorn. We all used the ballistic tips.
I had a .25-06 with the 115 Ballistic Tips at 3120 fps.
Storm had a 7mm-08 with the 120 gr Ballistic Tips - I don't remember the velocity. About 3000 I think.
Steven had a .280 with the 120 Ballistic Tips at about 3200 fps if I recall correctly.
Each of us dropped mule deer and pronghorn with quick kills. I believe that each bullet also exited, not something to be expected of a "fragile" bullet.
A buddy of mine went to Africa for plains game with a .300 Win mag. I gave him some ammo loaded with 180 grain Ballistic Tip bullets. He and his professional hunter were extremely enthusiastic about the quick kills he was getting with those bullets. No tracking involved! In fact, they liked them better than the Partitions, for plains game.
When my youngest son started hunting about ten years ago, he was very recoil shy. I started him out with a mild-kicking 6mm Remington and handloaded 95 grain Ballistic Tips for his rifle. His first deer was a mulie doe at about 275 yards. The bullet went through her chest, destroyed the heart & lungs, and exited out through the off-side leg, shattering the leg bone, and continuing on. Needless to say, she dropped right there. Granted that wasn't at close range, but the performance of the little bullet was impressive all the same.
I shot a young whitetail buck in the shoulder/chest at about 70 yards, using my .308 Win and a 165 gr Ballistic Tip. Dropped him instantly, and the exit wound was about 2" high and 4" long. Devastating performance! MV of that ammo was somewhere around 2750 - 2800 fps.
Here's an example of a .30 caliber, 165 grain Ballistic Tip, recovered from the 5th water-filled gallon jug in some testing conducted a while back. Many hunting bullets don't make it to the 5th jug:
Most of my hunting is for deer sized game. I think the Ballistic Tip may well be the perfect bullet for that application. Excellent accuracy. Fast expansion. Tough enough to hang together and penetrate. All I want from a deer bullet.
Of course, if you want bullets that REALLY hang together, even better than that, get the bonded version, the AccuBond.
Regards, Guy
G
Guest
Guest
At impact velocities under the advertised limits of the BT, you'll get great expansion, plenty of penetration, and a high level of shock. Push them too hard, and you'll get trouble.
But that's not unique to the BT. In fact, you could insert the bullet name of choice in that above statement, and it would be just as true.
I don't have any recovered BTs but I can speak to durability a bit. Two deer seasons ago, I shot two deer with BTs. The first was a small, disfigured buck that I thought was a doe, from about 120yds. I was using my 8x57 Remington 700, and a 180gr BT at 2700fps. In one side of the ribcage, quartering, and out through the liver on the far side. Deer ran about 60yds. Exit wound was about the size of a golf ball. Entrance was nominally bullet diameter. Lungs were soup, liver was fractured into several pieces and bloodshot. Later that same season, I shot a doe at 181yds (lasered distance prior to shooting) with a 168gr BT from my 30-06. MV on this is about 2950fps. She was my first successful "spot and stalk" deer, as I saw her from much farther than I'd ever attempt to shoot, and snuck in close to tag her. I shot her through the ribs with the first shot, and she mule kicked and kept feeding around the plot as though she was not hit. I don't like to track deer nor do I like to lose one, so when she presented a second shot, I took it. Right as the sear broke, she stepped forward, and into a small hole, and the bullet ended up going through her spine. What it did was enter her body on the left side, about 2/3 of the way back to the end of the ribcage (so just a bit forward of center of her body) in the upper edge of the ribcage, top to bottom. The entrance hole appeared to be nominally bullet diameter. All was well until it hit the heavy bone structure of her spine, at which point the bullet expanded dramatically, and the entire upper portion of her spine, part of her ribcage, and, unfortunately, about 5" of quality backstrap, was separated from her body. She fell where she stood, obviously. When I got to her, a portion of one lung was hanging out of the hole, along with the forward section of her digestive tract. Thankfully, the gut was still intact. The first bullet killed her, but neither she nor I knew it at the time. Entry on that shot was center ribcage, more or less, both top to bottom and front to back. Both lungs were punctured, and plenty of bleeding occurred. The piece of lung hanging out of the second shot location was barely attached inside the ribcage, and I suspect would not have flopped out if it had still been intact inside the ribs. So the first shot, the bullet held together a little more than I might have wanted. It did not strike bone going in or out, though (between ribs both times) so soft tissue was all the expansion medium it had. The exit was about the size of a half dollar.
So two deer, shot with BTs in their respective operating ranges (impact velocities of about 2400 and 2700fps, respectively) and bullet performance was good. I was a little surprised at both shots, as I frequently hear of deer dropping in their tracks from the BT, but my experience was that these bullets are tougher than that. Of course, I suspect at higher velocities (closer to or over 3k) things would get more, um, impactful, if you will.
I would not hesitate to use these bullets in rounds where impact velocities will be in the 2000-3200fps range. In my magnums, where impacts at closer ranges will be potentially above 3200fps, I've had excellent results using the E-Tips, as well.
But that's not unique to the BT. In fact, you could insert the bullet name of choice in that above statement, and it would be just as true.
I don't have any recovered BTs but I can speak to durability a bit. Two deer seasons ago, I shot two deer with BTs. The first was a small, disfigured buck that I thought was a doe, from about 120yds. I was using my 8x57 Remington 700, and a 180gr BT at 2700fps. In one side of the ribcage, quartering, and out through the liver on the far side. Deer ran about 60yds. Exit wound was about the size of a golf ball. Entrance was nominally bullet diameter. Lungs were soup, liver was fractured into several pieces and bloodshot. Later that same season, I shot a doe at 181yds (lasered distance prior to shooting) with a 168gr BT from my 30-06. MV on this is about 2950fps. She was my first successful "spot and stalk" deer, as I saw her from much farther than I'd ever attempt to shoot, and snuck in close to tag her. I shot her through the ribs with the first shot, and she mule kicked and kept feeding around the plot as though she was not hit. I don't like to track deer nor do I like to lose one, so when she presented a second shot, I took it. Right as the sear broke, she stepped forward, and into a small hole, and the bullet ended up going through her spine. What it did was enter her body on the left side, about 2/3 of the way back to the end of the ribcage (so just a bit forward of center of her body) in the upper edge of the ribcage, top to bottom. The entrance hole appeared to be nominally bullet diameter. All was well until it hit the heavy bone structure of her spine, at which point the bullet expanded dramatically, and the entire upper portion of her spine, part of her ribcage, and, unfortunately, about 5" of quality backstrap, was separated from her body. She fell where she stood, obviously. When I got to her, a portion of one lung was hanging out of the hole, along with the forward section of her digestive tract. Thankfully, the gut was still intact. The first bullet killed her, but neither she nor I knew it at the time. Entry on that shot was center ribcage, more or less, both top to bottom and front to back. Both lungs were punctured, and plenty of bleeding occurred. The piece of lung hanging out of the second shot location was barely attached inside the ribcage, and I suspect would not have flopped out if it had still been intact inside the ribs. So the first shot, the bullet held together a little more than I might have wanted. It did not strike bone going in or out, though (between ribs both times) so soft tissue was all the expansion medium it had. The exit was about the size of a half dollar.
So two deer, shot with BTs in their respective operating ranges (impact velocities of about 2400 and 2700fps, respectively) and bullet performance was good. I was a little surprised at both shots, as I frequently hear of deer dropping in their tracks from the BT, but my experience was that these bullets are tougher than that. Of course, I suspect at higher velocities (closer to or over 3k) things would get more, um, impactful, if you will.
I would not hesitate to use these bullets in rounds where impact velocities will be in the 2000-3200fps range. In my magnums, where impacts at closer ranges will be potentially above 3200fps, I've had excellent results using the E-Tips, as well.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,328
- 6,020
Good summary of a fine bullet, Guy. Thanks.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,297
- 3,047
Keep them under 3K and they will impress you!
- Thread starter
- #8
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,755
- 5,846
Yeah, I've never recovered one from game - because they penetrate right on through after very obviously expanding. They're good bullets.
I would say that if you're really interested in excellent performance at close range and relatively high velocity, that I'd recommend a different choice, either Partitions or Accubonds.
FWIW, Guy
I would say that if you're really interested in excellent performance at close range and relatively high velocity, that I'd recommend a different choice, either Partitions or Accubonds.
FWIW, Guy
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,378
- 710
I run ballistic tips (140 7mm) at 3550 fps in my STW, no problems, just stay off heavy bone the first 150 yards, they will mostly exit. and it ruins the games day!!! but probably the best whitetail load I ever used was a 115 gr. .257 dia. BT at 3000 fps. always exits no matter the angle.
RR
RR
- Thread starter
- #12
My wife shot a nice doe with her 243 wssm and a 90gr BT this past fall. We had a complete pass through both lungs a could not find a drop of blood. After a little tracking it only went about 30yrds into the thickest nasty brush on are lease. Very little blood at all. Never seen one bleed so little. Her gun is the only rifle that I have used BTs in. Look forward to trying the 130gr in .277 as many of my buddies will be using them this fall so we should see some results for sure. Thanks for all the info again guys.
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,378
- 710
high lung shot? if so wasn't the bullet, the POI is what caused it.
RR
RR
G
Guest
Guest
Guy Miner":2mbjxl6p said:
I'll corroborate the first comment Guy made, and add to the second that the E-Tip is most excellent at magnum velocities. I have three deer in the last three seasons with E-Tips and two more with BTs.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,207
- 8,514
If you keep your impact velocity below 3000 fps, they work very well on game.
JD338
JD338
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
Yes, They work best when launched right at 3k.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
I have used the 140 gr BT's in the .280 Rem at about 2950 muzzle velocity for shooting meat deer for friends in Utah who had a Handicapped Tag. These deer were uniformly two point, 2-1/2 year old mule deer bucks weighing about 160 pounds dressed. The 140 grain Ballistic tips generally hit these deer at about 200 yards distance up at 8000 feet altitude in a high saddle, game trail crossing that I used for this hunting. The 4X4 was parked at about 6500 feet altitude up and over the other side on the drainage.
Almost all of these deer were hit broadside with high lung shots and the bullets fully penetrated blowing the lungs up on the way through. The velocity would have been about 2500 fps at the point where they were hit and the bullets never failed to fully pass through the deer and leave about a 1 inch exit hole with two ribs broken. Most of the deer died where they stood, the farthest went maybe 50 yards after being hit. This shooting would equal using a .7mm-08 or a 7mm Mauser at 100 yards.
Almost all of these deer were hit broadside with high lung shots and the bullets fully penetrated blowing the lungs up on the way through. The velocity would have been about 2500 fps at the point where they were hit and the bullets never failed to fully pass through the deer and leave about a 1 inch exit hole with two ribs broken. Most of the deer died where they stood, the farthest went maybe 50 yards after being hit. This shooting would equal using a .7mm-08 or a 7mm Mauser at 100 yards.
Wincheringen
Handloader
- Jan 10, 2012
- 931
- 1
Out of my 6.5x55 the 120 BT is a deer slayer. My last buck took a few steps while decorating the snow red and then just toppled on over. I've used the BT for a long time and a lot of deer have fallen to it.
Charlie-NY
Handloader
- Mar 11, 2005
- 1,420
- 855
While the debate about Ballistic Tips being too fragile will probably go on forever, I've frequently hunted with the Hornady A-Max bullet which is arguably a bullet of even lighter construction and never had a problem. Taking deer & antelope, these bullets killed quickly and usually dropped animals within 30 yds. Broadside lung shots always exited with 1"-1.5" exits. High shoulder shots rarely exited but game usually dropped on the spot.
The Ballistic Tips should work quite well when used within their intended impact velocity.
The Ballistic Tips should work quite well when used within their intended impact velocity.
Ridge_Runner
Handloader
- Sep 29, 2006
- 1,378
- 710
agreed, and at one time it was correct, but todays ballistic tips are a truly different beast, I have 2 140's of the old type recovered from deer hit nothing but hide in/1 rib out, massive jacket core separations in a 7 RM, deer were shot at 23 and 18 yards, but since I went back to the new ones even in my stw I haven't recovered 2 from deer, even shot a 180# black bear on the point of the shoulder at 80 yards, it exited, bear died I think almost before the bullet got there. Thats why I get in on all ballistic tip threads, lots of folks who haven't shot the newer ones are still dissing them, but if they would try them they would like them.Charlie-NY":znaxsl07 said:
RR
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