Glass Bedding Vs. Pillar Bedding

[smitty81]

Hi fellow hunters, I have a ruger m77 mkII left hand bolt action, with a COMPOSITE STOCK. I've had it for about 5 years and I love it. The first year it was pretty accurate. About the third year, it started grouping them verry poorly. Were talking like a foot or so apart. So i sent it in to ruger. It came back and was fixed. Long story short, I picked up reloading as a hobby and want to make my rifle as accurate as possable not only for hunting purposes but so I could enjoy the work I put into my hand loads. I have put a timmeny trigger on it and a new nikon bds scope, just some misc. things to upgrade it. I now want to bed the action. I have called two different gunsmiths and one says glass bedding is fine for it and the other guy said that it needed to be a pillar bedding. He said you should pillar bed it if its not wood (Mine is composite) because it can bend the stock? I told the other gunsmith about that and he told me that he is just trying to get me to spend more money. What is your opinion? What should i do? The more input, the better. thanks guys

 

[JD338]

A good quallity composite shouldn't need too much work. Pillar bedding is common with wood and wood laminate stocks. If you are interested in upgrading your factory stock, look at HS precision. http://www.hsprecision.com/

But before you go down that path, you should look at your rifle and try to determine why the accuracy has deteriated. Make sure the action screws are properly torqued, scope bases and rings are tight. What kind of scope are you using? Maybe an upgrade will bring back the accuracy you once had.
Also, what condition is the bore in? Has a good quality copper solvent been used to remove all traces of copper fouling?
Just a few thoughts to try to help you out. :wink:

JD338

 

[smitty81]

Its like brand new, I got it new as a birthday present from my dad when i was younger. I take great care of it, its my baby. Its been "ok" since i got it back but I want to make it the best i can. From what i have been told, bedding will help accuracy quit a bit in a lot of cases. Right now it probably has groups at maby 1" or so but i want it better. I want to be under an inch. Just making it the best i can i guess

 

[smitty81]

But before you go down that path, you should look at your rifle and try to determine why the accuracy has deteriated. Make sure the action screws are properly torqued, scope bases and rings are tight. What kind of scope are you using? Maybe an upgrade will bring back the accuracy you once had.
JD338

how do i figure out the torque for the action screws? And with what torque tool can i set it with? The scope is a brand new nikon buckmaster BDC..... in my opinion, a good scope.

Once again, nothing wrong with it, just looking to get all the accuracy i can out of it

 

[JD338]

You use an inch pound torque driver, 50-60 Inch Pounds is typical but I do not know what Ruger recomends.
Scope should be fine, knot knowing what you have made me start thinking of several possibilities,
1" accuracy isn't bad but I hear ya on getting the best you can.
Changing powders may help, maybe even bullet weights along with the COL.
What caliber are you shooting and what bullet and powder loads have you tried?

JD338

 

[smitty81]

caliber is .270. In the past i have used what my grandfather had told me to. 47 g of h380 with a 130 g hornady sst. I shot a fallow deer in the chest at about 50 yards and dropped it. But at 50 yards with a 270, there arnt to many animals in north america that will go to much fruther. I had found the bullet and all that was left was the outter jacket. since then i had tried winchesters ballastic silver tips and fell in love with them. So now the current load i am going to be working on is the silvertips in 130 gr. with a 55 g charge of h4831sc. Seems like my rifle really likes the winchester factory loads. I will try the h4831sc first and then my next 2 choices will be rl 22 or the winchester 760. Picked up an oal guage at cabelas last weekend so i can get the bullets just right.

all these loads except the hornady are with nickel cases if you care to know.

thanks

 

[JD338]

Keep us posted with your load development.

JD338

 

[rick smith]

I have been told that a pillar is available for the Ruger's recoil lug. The straight ones as used in most rifles will not work in a ruger with the tilted recoil lug. The rear pillar will be the same as other rifles, diameter is always a consideration. There is a good article on bedding a Ruger in the last issue or so of "Precision Shooting". I have not put pillars in any of the Rugers I have bedded. If you plan to put pillars in any rifle, it only makes sense to bed it at the same time. Pillars basically stop compression of the stock as they touch only where they are located. Bedding fits the action to the stock, with or without pillars.Rick.

 

[FOTIS]

You use an inch pound torque driver, 50-60 Inch Pounds is typical but I do not know what Ruger recommends.
Scope should be fine, knot knowing what you have made me start thinking of several possibilities,
1" accuracy isn't bad but I hear ya on getting the best you can.
Changing powders may help, maybe even bullet weights along with the COL.
What caliber are you shooting and what bullet and powder loads have you tried?

JD338

Remington recommends 30 inch lbs for their wood stocks. WBY recommends 65 inch lbs for their Ultralights and their accumarks, so as you can see it varies. If you buy yourself a tourque wrench or screwdriver (Craftsman from Sears) you can actually see your groups shrink or open up from 20-30-40 etc. inch/pounds.

I conducted an experiment years ago with a Sako fiberglass SS 300 RUM. I took the best load and loaded up 15 rounds. I shot 3 round groups at 300 yards. from 30 -50 inch lbs. The 50 in/lbs setting yielded .675" at 300 yards! here is the group.

 

[smitty81]

damn, you learn something new everyday..........
My question still remains unanswered though.
For a ruger with a composit stock, would just plain glass bedding do or would you want to pillar it also?

 

[Guest]

I suspect you could just glass-bed it, and see what happened. You will have to have a lot of material (relatively) removed to pillar bed it, so it wouldn't matter if you went back in later to pillar bed it, you could just re-glass it then, too. Another alternative is to spend the money to get a synthetic with a full length aluminum bedding block from someone like McMillan or HS Precision, if they are available.

 

[smitty81]

Yes, i could do that and i have wanted to do that but.................do they offer them in left had bolt action? In my experience, thats like trying to find "THE HOLY GRAIL". I would love to be able to get a really nice custom wood stock..........

 

[rick smith]

Drop an e-mail on McM about left hand stocks. Fairly sure they offer some. Just glass bed and don't worry about pillars.Rick.

 

[smitty81]

Just called ruger, they said the fron drop plate screw is 95 inch pounds, the back two are hand tight. The middle one is suppost to be backed off 1/8 of a turn.

 

[Guest]

Yes, i could do that and i have wanted to do that but.................do they offer them in left had bolt action? In my experience, thats like trying to find "THE HOLY GRAIL". I would love to be able to get a really nice custom wood stock..........

You might try Accurate Innovations for a nice left handed wood stock. I don't know if they make southpaw stuff. They are pricey, but really nice, and they have great bedding.

 

[Scott in Michigan]

Its like brand new, I got it new as a birthday present from my dad when i was younger. I take great care of it, its my baby. Its been "ok" since i got it back but I want to make it the best i can. From what i have been told, bedding will help accuracy quit a bit in a lot of cases. Right now it probably has groups at maby 1" or so but i want it better. I want to be under an inch. Just making it the best i can i guess

You may have unreal expectations. One inch groups from a stock Ruger .270 without working up a load are better that I'd expect.

The one thing that needs to be considered before letting a gunsmith pillar bed or epoxy bed that rifle is he may makes things worse. It's not always a panacea.

 

[smitty81]

just FYI, Im not a south paw..............LOL just screwing with ya man!!!
Im just left eye dominant, I do everything else right handed. Not that it matters

 

[FOTIS]

........
My question still remains unanswered though.
For a ruger with a composite stock, would just plain glass bedding do or would you want to pillar it also?

No one can tell which would work better. Me? I would just bed it. If you break MOA with a Ruger you're good.

 

[HiWall]

Brownells market pillars specifically for the Ruger M77 with a 'V' cutout at one end of the angled pillar to match the action recoil lug.

I have pillar bedded (action bedded also) my walnut stocked M77 in .260 Rem and floated the barrel - it has made a marked improvement in accuracy.

A Spec-Tech trigger has turned it into a really nice shooting little rifle and fitting a LimbSaver grind to fit recoil pad has extended the length of pull slightly so it now fits perfectly. B Square allen head action screws makes it easy to torque down correctly.

A couple of cheap and easy mods has turned a rifle that I liked into a rifle that I love to hunt with.

 

[YoteSmoker]

I'm told that the M77 recoil lug is at an angle vs vertical like a M700 for example. Are there any tricks to bedding a Ruger to be aware of because of this and does this make any problems with removing the barrelled action from the stock once the bedding has cured? Do you tape the front and sides of the recoil lug?