pre64's coming along, and a seat depth illustration

tddeangelo

Handloader
May 18, 2011
2,019
2
I hit the range this evening right before dark.

I wanted to make a last-ditch effort to get my pre-64's shooting well enough to take hunting in NC on my upcoming trip. The 30-06 I felt was close, and might be ready, but would shoot a good group and then throw a much larger one. I shot it tonight thinking, "Ok, if the first group out is good, then it's gotta be barrel heat that cause the bigger groups." All the groups are centered basically the same spot, they just get bigger on a second group with a little heat in the barrel.

So, first (and only, since I ran out of light) group from the '06 is thus:

pre643006.JPG


That's a 2" dot. I miked the group at just a shade under 1.2". That's about what it's done other "first" groups, consistently. I adjusted the elevation to where it should hit about 12 o'clock on the dot. Reshoot will be later this week or Saturday morning. This is a 165PT on 57.0gr of IMR4350. I had thought that was as far as I could push the rifle, but now with a different batch of primers, they don't look so flat as the last batch. Who knows....but no extraction issues and primers look good. I think I'm gonna push it harder after my hunt and see what I get. The chrono tells me to expect 2700, pretty much right on the nose, with this load in this rifle. Not stellar, but I'll take it. Very capable for hunting purposes.

Now, on to the seat depth I mentioned.

I also took the 300H&H. While I got a beautiful new stock for it, I need to slowly work on the bedding epoxy in it from the previous owner. Nice clean work, but for a different rifle. I need to gently work on the bedding to fit my rifle to it, and that means the $$%&@ diamond stock has to remain on it for the NC hunt. After I get back, I'm going to finish fitting the new stock to it and it will be as it should.

Anyway, the setup I was shooting was 72.0gr of RL22 and a 180gr PT. All I changed was seat depth.

Here's the group from round seated to 3.610 (about as long as it'll reliably cycle):

300HH_361.JPG



OK, now here's the group produced with rounds seated to 3.590:

300HH_359.JPG


And lastly, here's the same load seated to 3.570:

300HH_357.JPG



I plan to reshoot that last one. If it repeats even close to a group that size, it's golden.

So...with both pre-64's seeming to finally be cooperative, I am planning to take both the 300H&H and the pre-64 30-06, along with my M70 Extreme Weather in 300WSM for any possible foul weather days.

The load in the 300H&H should be real close to or maybe a little over 2900fps for a 180gr PT. I plan to chrono it when I shoot it to verify the results, and hopefully zero it at the same time.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the results of the seat depth changes. Anymore, I've found that I work a powder/bullet combo in various increments and find the best one. I start with the OAL set to as long as will reliably chamber and work in from there. First, all get that length, run the powders and charge weights. At least one will stand out as better than the others.

Then I take that load and run batches of three, with a 1/2" turn IN of the stem on the seating die. Generally, this yields a change in OAL of 0.015" to 0.020", give or take. One of those seat depths will shine. From there, I might find a need to fine tune the powder charge a little, but generally after passing both "tests", the load should be pretty good.
 
Very nice job with the H and H. Amazing how seating depth adjustments can improve those groups. Look at those 180 PT,s go. Awsome.
 
Tom,

That is very promising. We're all pulling for you to get these fine rifles to performing as they were meant to perform. That 180 g PT will be a powerhouse in the 300 H&H.
 
Everyone who owns a .300 H&H ought to kill a deer with a fully let out 165 Partion bullet! It is truly amazing to see a deer hit by aforementioned load within about 150 yards, expire. There is no more surity in nature than the DRT of a 165 Partition at 3150 fps hitting a deer with a clean lung shot!

Seems as though, you are getting very close with the .300 H&H and the .30-06 is certainly huntable as is and you will figure it out as well.
 
Charlie,

If that H&H will do that again, I'll be friggin' ecstatic! It's shooting 3-4" higher than I want, so I need to make an elevation adjustment. I'm think maybe a 1/2-minute correction of left windage, too. From there, it's ready to flatten some deer.

The 165's in the 06....not my ideal, but workable, and I'd love to have both my pre64's get a taste of venison this fall if possible.

I'm at the 180 for the H&H because I'd like to use the same load for elk, and I'd think a 180gr PT at 2900, give or take, should work nicely for those beasts, too. While a different load, my 300WSM produces nearly identical speeds on the same bullet, so the two will literally be ballistic twins for me. I like that.

I think I can push the '06 farther, but it will have to wait till after my trip. My initial goal was mid-2800's for the 165PT. Not sure if I'll reach it. The pre64 seems to run slower than my Classic in 06. Maybe after the season I'll clean for copper and try to scrub the crud from the barrel, see if it speeds it up any?
 
Oh, I understand your logic Tom, and it makes sense. I would do the same thing in the same circumstances. I was just expanding the horizons a little for the heck of it. I used my .300 a fair amount as a back up for my 7mm Rem Mag and in that role, used 165 Partitions. I just thought that I would mention how effectively the 165 Partition kills deer.
 
hubcap":13yydahb said:
Very nice job with the H and H. Amazing how seating depth adjustments can improve those groups. Look at those 180 PT,s go. Awesome.


Absolutely. You did some great work there.
 
Great shooting Tom. Looks like that 300 H&H is doing well. Wouldn't be worried about hunting much of anything with that load. Looks pretty fast to me.

Cartridge : .300 H.& H. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler PART SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 75.722 grain H2O = 4.917 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.570 inch = 90.68 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 92 64.80 2686 2883 40753 10876 95.0 1.414
-09.0 93 65.52 2717 2950 42144 11007 95.5 1.392
-08.0 94 66.24 2748 3019 43588 11134 96.0 1.370
-07.0 95 66.96 2779 3088 45084 11258 96.5 1.349
-06.0 96 67.68 2811 3158 46634 11377 96.9 1.328
-05.0 97 68.40 2842 3228 48243 11491 97.3 1.307
-04.0 98 69.12 2873 3299 49912 11601 97.6 1.287
-03.0 99 69.84 2904 3371 51643 11706 98.0 1.267
-02.0 100 70.56 2935 3444 53441 11806 98.3 1.248 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 101 71.28 2967 3517 55300 11902 98.6 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 102 72.00 2998 3592 57220 11992 98.9 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 103 72.72 3029 3666 59204 12076 99.1 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 104 73.44 3060 3742 61260 12155 99.3 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 105 74.16 3091 3818 63391 12228 99.5 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 106 74.88 3121 3894 65602 12296 99.6 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 107 75.60 3152 3971 67894 12358 99.8 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 72.00 3143 3949 69660 11640 100.0 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 72.00 2796 3125 45638 11654 92.9 1.334
 
Scotty, what do those numbers look like with the 26" barrel my H&H has?

My Hornady manual said 72.5gr was the max and they stated 2950fps for that load with a 180.

Cripes, if that load is knocking down 3000, I'd be friggin' elated!
 
I would say it should be close Tom. I ran it with a 25" barrel, so I imagine it is within 25FPS or so. It just might be. If that is the case, yeah, that is a great load.
 
I'm gonna try to reshoot tomorrow or Saturday and chrono it when I do. I will need a computer to run the swaro BT software to set up my turret, though, so I will probably have to go with the QL projections on speed.

I don't really think I'll need the BT that much anyway, but may as well set the thing up while I have it apart.
 
Good point Tom. If you have the muzzle velocity from the chrono, it should be very close. Get 5 good shots across it for a solid average. Should get you good and close out to 500 or so.
 
I would think, although I think I'm more likely to set my stops at a zero of 200, then 300, 350, and 400. I don't have many, if any, chances here to shoot past 400. Swaro provided little cheat sheets to put on the gun or under a scope cover for dope at ranges other than what is set on the turret. I figured I could add adjustments written in there for longer distances if desired at some point.

I can't think of anywhere I hunt, here or NC, where I can outshoot a 400 yard setting on the scope, though.
 
Well, I got to the range, but the winds were there...not awful, but in the 9, 10, 11mph and variable range. I would wait for a calm spell, but super tight groups were NOT going to happen. I did get two shots when it was dead calm with the 300H&H and they overlapped, so it likes that load.

Chrono, was only able to run 4 rounds over it, but the average was 3015fps. That's with a 180PT.

The Pre64 30-06 showed me, when I pushed up to 5 shots before cooling, that it's the heat that makes it open up. I let it get to ambient temp again and it settled right in and gave me a 1-1.2" group with 165PT's. Average on that one was 2699fps.

So....my "team" for my pending trip is the 300WSM (Extreme Weather model), the 300H&H prewar rifle, and the 30-06 pre-64.

Now, recent events have shown me that my 300H&H is woefully inadequate for hunting, as it is "next to useless", but hey, I figured it was worth a try. And those crappy pre64 actions....they'll just have to do until I can find a Mauser, I guess? I don't know.

;)
 
Great shooting Tom. That 300 is clicking for you now.

The 165 at 2700 is 308 Winchester ballistics so I don't see you losing game.
 
Yep, kinda where my thinking is, Scotty. I was disappointed to not get into the 2800's with the 165's, but with a PT that'll work. I'm not sure, seems like that old winchester runs slow. That is a charge of 57.0gr IMR4350. Should get a bit more speed from it, I would have thought?

It'll kill deer fine. I'll try maybe some 4064 when I have time "post season". Maybe that'll kick it up a tad?
 
That is pretty slow for 57.0 of IMR 4350 in a .30-06. I use 57.5 gr of IMR 4350 and get about 2850 out of my .30-06. Could you check that barrel for throat erosion? That is usually what slows them down like that, or maybe it is just a slow barrel?
 
I don't have a TE gauge.....I can see if someone around here can scope it or check it for me, I guess.

If the throat's been shot out a bit, then perhaps this will become that rifle will become Whelen donor after all....
 
You could always do a rebore to keep it original. That would be pretty cool actually.
 
Back
Top