range day with the twins 25-06/7 RM

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,646
12
Took my model 70 classic sporters out today in 25-06 and 7 RM did a bit of velocity testing more then anything.
I know both rifles are easily capable of 1/2 MOA with a good load, just matter of getting the speed I am looking for as well.

The 2506 is my coyote rifle, so I've been set on using the 100g NBT in it for a while. Been shooting em over 56-57.5g AA3100, shoots great never been over .75" but is kinda slow at 3125-3175fps. So worked up a load with retumbo at 61g that shot in the .2s, but with the new crongraph, velocity is still not where a 2506 w/100s should be, there only doing 3200-3225fps. I am looking for 3300-3350fps and consistent 3 shot 1/2 moa accuracy. So I set out and loaded up 2 loads with few different powders, each with 3 shots at 57/58 RL22, 54/55 RL19, and 51/52 IMR-4350. Neck sized rem brass, WLR primer, OAL is 3.245" which is right at lands in my rifle, 24" bbl, Leupold vari x III 6.5-20x40 AO, 1/8 dot, gloss, target knob for elevation only, 1 piece leupold base/rings. Trigger is set at 2 lbs by yours truly.

RL22
57- 1" at 3321fps
58-.38" at 3381fps :)

RL19
54-.84" at 3107fps
55-.65" at 3169fps

IMR4350
51- 1.6" at 3194fps
52-.76" at 3246fps

I think 58g of RL22 is worth further investigation. Its only powder to even break 3300fps for me so far and is sitting pretty good at 3380fps and .38" group. Would be worth shooting 57.5/58/58.5 with 5 shot groups to nail the powder charge down. Then depending, can tweak the seating depth .005" deeper and see if that could help. Overall pretty pleased with way it did first trip out with RL22...none of loads showed any signs of pressure what so ever either, could easily go another half grain or grain in my rifle on the other powders to see if they tighten up any.

Next up was the 7 RM. This is my big game/long range rifle. I also have a goal in mind with this one as well and its to push a 162g AMAX at 3000fps and again, consistent 1/2 MOA. I do have to use these as single shot as there's no way to reach lands and fit in mag box, that's ok, I can live with that. I thought had a good load with Retumbo at 70g that did .4" at 2940fps few months back but it did 1.3" today at 2977fps. It put shots 2 and 3 touching, however the 1st was 1" low. No called flyer, I did my part, I think problem was that I had just mounted the scope and got done bore sighting so it didn't settle till after the 1st shot...my theory anyways.

So after cross referencing several manuals and QL I decided to load up one load with each powder towards the top to see if I could hit 3000fps. To expect 1/2 MOA with the first 1 and only charge isn't to common so I wasn't to concerned about accuracy at this point as I was velocity. Results somewhat interesting...26" bbl, neck size winchester brass, CCI 250, OAL is 3.450" which is right at lands in this rifle. Leupold VX3 LR 6.5-20x50mm fine duplex, side focus, was silver finish but has since been painted desert tan, scope level, NF angle indicator, Weaver 20 MOA base with weaver tactical 6 hole rings. Trigger is set at 4 lbs which I need to work down to around 2 lbs before to long.

Retumbo-70- 1.3" at 2977fps
RL25-69- 1.2" at 2975fps
RL22-65- 1.1" at 2964fps
IMR4350-59- .97" at 2915fps
H4831-64- .5" at 2877fps
RL19-62- .8" at 2869fps
H1000-68.5- .75" at 2865fps

The only load here that showed pressure signs even slightly was 59 IMR4350. So I still have room to go, least another one to two grains depending. I may get 3000fps, but I'm thinking it just may wanna shoot the best around 2850-2950.

H4831 showed a lot of potential by busting out the nice little triangular .5" group which was best of them all far as accuracy, but it was one of slowest at 2875fps. Very consistent tho, ES was 12.

So, with that said, way its looking, and my goal of 3000 and 1/2 moa, it appears I have 3 powder choices far as velocity is concerned to achieve and hit 3000, retumbo, RL25, and RL22. I can go up in .5g increments and see what one if any will tighten up or get worse.

Accuracy wise it appears that H4831 and H1000 are gonna be tough to beat given the history of the powders in the cartridge, there both very consistent in the ES as well, both extreme series from hodgon which I like a lot more then the Alliant RL series...however H4831 and H1000 are barely doing 2875fps which I feel is bit on slow side for mag and 162s w/ 26" bbl.

So do I tinker with the hodgon series of 4831/H1000 at 2875fps and live with fact that its really only few more clicks to dial at each range and no animal will ever know the difference, or do I try the retumbo and RL 22/25 route and try get that accuracy node somewhere with them at the top??

All in all was pretty good day with the model 70 classic sporters. They are both very nice rifles and the 25-06 has been a proven shooter for years, and for some reason I don't think the 7 mag is gonna be to far behind it once I get it out a bit more :)
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,398
757
Man, great intel Jorey. I will be working with both of the Model 70's in the same cartridges pretty soon as well. I would think RL25 would allow some more room for speed if you were so inclined to try it. It works really well in the 264 Win Mag. I think when I start playing with the 175 PT's in my old Model 70 7RM, RL25 will get the first try and then, maybe some RL22. Both of them have shown me they really should push the 7RM pretty well, and as long as the accuracy is good, I think they will be awesome performers.

It seems like your 26" barrel should net closer to 3100 with top end loads and the 162. Just my thoughts, as the 7WSM will get into 3075 pretty easily with RL22 and a 24" barrel. Granted, I haven't ran them out as you have, but I think you have room to grow.

I am digging your 100 BT load for the 25-06 though. That would be one butt kicking coyote load for sure! Man, I am looking forward to working with that rifle! Great shooting.
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,646
12
Thanks Brian.

These rifles have same "G" prefix and are only off each other in serial number by 80,000. My thoughts are that they are late 90s to early 2000.

There is few small differences on the 7 RM that I haven't ever seen on any classic sporters however. The guy I bought it from claims to bought it new the way it came and sat, put 10 shells through it and been sitting in his safe ever since...it had a new vari x II 3-9 with leupold base/rings as well...anyway this 7 RM is different then the 25-06 in 4 or 5 ways. First is the wood. Its noticably darker and doesn't appear to be your standard walnut that comes on every other classic sporter I"ve seen. It also has very deep/shiny blueing that once again is unlike any other I've seen. The caliber stamped "7mm Rem Mag" is in gold, the bolt is very nicely jeweled like a nice remington would be, and lastly the crown is different, almost like recessed crown.

All in all same rifles. Nice to have coyote/big game/long range rifle all feel the same, shoulder, handle, weight, etc. I love way they come up and handle, comfortable enough prone, accurate rifles with tuned loads. And looking at the charts to 1000 yards, they pretty much should shoot to within a click or two out to 900 yards, theretically anyways :) Using 100nbt at 3375 and 162amax at 3000 both zeroed at 100 yards.

This is why they are going to be named accordingly, but something along lines of deadly twins has a ring to it.

I will try to get 3000 and 1/2 moa definately. I think 1 of the 3 powders should do it and get a little tighter...

25-06 is probly a little overkill for dogs in all honesty, but I hate to have a dog setting at 600+ thinkin he's safe is all haha. That's why I use the 100g instead of 85g nbt, little higher BC and still really flat shooting when loaded way it should be. I've killed quite few dogs with the 100g nbts at what I thought was 3350-3400fps when in all actuality they were only 3200 and they did quite the number on them, can't wait to add another 150-200fps on top of that and watch the fur fly a little further :)
 

remingtonman_25_06

Handloader
Nov 17, 2005
2,646
12
Btw, I got a steal on that 7 RM/leupy scope deal...$600 and it was mine. Wouldn't have known either were used if he had the boxes. Think the rifle alone is worth at least that, if not more I'm thinking since it seems to be a bit nicer/different classic sporter.

Anybody tell me more about this particular rifle would be awesome actually. Myself and a lot of others are curious if it came outta winchesters custom shop or what? Did they make a fancier super grade type classic sporter at all? Guy swears up and down he did nothing to the rifle and bought it NEW from store or dealer exactly way he had it and as I have it now. Trust me I asked him couple times. By the end of it I think he was almost regretting selling it after I kept saying "this is a suuuper nice rifle, unlike any other classic sporter I've ever seen or anybody else I know around my area has seen or heard.
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,778
1,810
Interesting. Good results.

.25-06 - have been using the little 100 gr SPBT Sierra as a coyote bullet for some time. It shot superbly from a .25-06 Number One varminter. In my 700 CDL, I've been using mostly H4350 at 3290 fps. It has worked fine on coyotes & rockchucks... Just fine!

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=18214

7mm Rem mag - I like the idea of a sleek 160 - 162 - 168 gr bullet at about 3,000 fps. Reloader 22 has gotten me there with that bullet weight class and good accuracy.

Had a .25-06 Model 70 Classic Sporter with really dark walnut for a time. I don't recall the crown being different, and am sure it didn't have any gold inlay lettering, but the stock was very dark and the blue was rich and deep. Good looking rifle. I was never able to get the accuracy I wanted out of that rifle, so it moved on, but it was a very good looking Model 70. The walnut was almost too dark for me, it wasn't easy to see how nice the grain was in the stock. I'd have likely stripped and refinished the stock if I kept it.

Seems to me that you've got a good pair of nice, accurate rifles for coyotes - elk. Cool.

Guy
 

Elkman

Handloader
Apr 4, 2010
4,551
4
Sounds like you are well on your way to finishing your load development. With 160 gr bullets, a 7mm mag has a hard time reaching 3000 fps, especially with a standard length barrel. I am more prone to quite when my accuracy standard has been met, rather than try and gain a few more FPS. As you stated the game will never know either way. Looks like you had a great day.
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,778
1,810
"With 160 gr bullets, a 7mm mag has a hard time reaching 3000 fps, especially with a standard length barrel."

Not in my experience - even with 24" Remington barrels. Heck, I've had factory loaded 160's that topped 3,000 fps... Federal ammo rated at 2950, but actually generating 3,000+ fps from my ol' 700 ADL.

A good dose of RL-22 does it just fine, book loads, Sierra manual.

Absolutely agree though that 2950 fps vs 3050 fps makes no real difference in the field. If you can hit and kill with one, you can do it with the other. Load for the accuracy, a hundred fps one way or the other doesn't really matter.

Guy
 

Oldtrader3

Ammo Smith
Nov 6, 2009
8,406
2
I have been using IMR 7828 and/or SSC in my 7mm Rem Mag for the past 20 years or so. With the 160 gr Partition the rifle (24 inch Mauser) has a muzzle velocity of about 3060 fps. This is with 66.0 grains of IMR 7828 SSC, W-W brass and Fed MagMatch 215 primers. This load may be too hot for some chambers so work up to it. Prior to IMR 7828, I used H-4831 but never got to 3000 fps.

On my Model 70 Sporter, .25-06, I was never been able to get advertized velocities for either 100 gr BT's or 120 gr Partitions. I was always about 100 fps short of advertized factory velocity but so was factory ammo. This was even with loads that were too hot for my tastes, with IMR 7828 and magnum primer. I also used IMR 4350 in the .25-06 for 100 Partition loads and it was slower than 7828 SSC.
 

DrMike

Ballistician
Nov 8, 2006
35,482
2,275
It looks as if you have your rifles dialed in and stepping out in fine fashion. Load development has gone well for you.
 

Horsethief

Handloader
Jul 5, 2012
342
1
You've done some great work not only from the variety of powders tested but also with the achieved accuracy. I have had great accuracy from 52gn of RL-19 in the 115 Ballistic Tip and 117gn Interlock bullets from the 25-06 and a 26" barrel. With 53.5gn of H-4831 and the 115gn BTs I've also had super results. The 25 is a fine caliber for deer and smaller since it beats the ordinary 6mm loads on deer and varmits, esp at long range. A buddy has used a 243 for just about every deer he's taken in North America. Keep us posted on your results.
 

gerry

Ammo Smith
Mar 1, 2007
6,113
11
Sounds like you have a couple of really nice guns. Can you post some pics of them? Maybe some of the resident Winchester lovers will be able to answer your questions about your 7mm RM.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,376
842
Rem 700 FS with 24" factory barrel 72.5 H1000
162 gr Hornady 3120 fps.
 

jmad_81

Handloader
Feb 14, 2007
2,937
2
Nice work bud! I can't wait for it to cool off a bit so we can go get some range time in. Sure looks like you'll be set here shortly.
 

JD338

Range Officer
Staff member
Nov 4, 2004
22,141
1,839
Jorey,

Nice work.
I am watching your 25-06 and taking notes. :wink:

JD338
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,778
1,810
Remingtonman_25-06 likely has more long-range critter killing experience than most with the .25-06 cartridge. He's reported some pretty impressive kills in the past...
 
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