Started loading 300 win mag

[theddguide]

My old man picked one up and im starting to load for it. Im thinking about getting rid of my wsm thats discussed in the other thread to get a win mag as well.

First question, i know I'll get different opinions but am I better off getting a win mag over the wsm as far as ease of reloading,availability, or performance?

Second, should I be sizing the cases to push the shoulders back at all or set the die to not touch the shoulder?

Third, I've primed a handful of cases after sizing using a lee hand primer and for the life of me can not get the primers deep enough. They stick out a bit and some also seem crooked. I've tried Winchester mags and cci mags both in nosler and hornady brass with the same result. Using the #5 lee shell holder which is supposed to be correct. The only thing i can figure is when starting to push the primer in the case tilts back inside the shell holder because of the space around the edges of the case head compared to the size of the holder. I've tried turning the case 180⁰ with no luck also. Not sure what to do about this. For what it's worth I've noticed that when loading other cartridges some primers go in a smidge crooked also but after usually able to go in flush or past flush. Any advice here?

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[mjcmichigan]

I have both. 300WM and 300 WSM.

Both are easy to load. I like the case on the WM a little better than WSM, but I think my issue with the WSM was due to a particular brand die that was tough on the brass during resizing. I changed to RCBS and had no trouble after that.

Ballistically, very little difference.

Cases for the WSM are a little
More expensive, but last many loads if you have good dies and anneal your brass(also good to anneal 300 WM as well).

Primer seating. I have a Hornady and RCBS hand primer, both work well, never had an issue with a primer not seating flush or a little lower. My preferred method is to use my Redding single stage press, it has an arm that holds and aligns the primer. With the leverage of the arm and Cam, it’s super easy to be consistent.

If you like the 300WSM, don’t sell it for a 300WM. Really, no buck or bear can tell the difference between the two!

With the new powders, you can probably get the 300WSM up to 300WM’s speeds... reloader 26 is a real well behaved hot rod.

For instance, my 3006 running a 220gn Sierra ProHunter and RL26, I’m getting 2670fps from a 22” 3006. No pressure signs using the max load Quick
Load recommended...the 300WM is projected at 2771 and 300WSM was 2760. Those estimates came
From
Nosler’s load data for their 220gn partitions.. so not apples to apples, but the point being, small differences between the WM and WSM, and evening old standby’s like 3006 are achieving near magnum speeds with new powders.

Happy reloading.

Oh, both my 300’s are model 70’s. The 300wM is the extreme weather edition with and awesome trigger. My 300WSM is the standard stainless model with a magniported barrel. I got it second hand from a recoil shy person.


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[SJB358]

Hard to say what you should stick with but both are really danged good cartridges. The WSM is a nice cartridge in a M70 or similar rifle where the magazine allows you to stretch them out a little if you’re shooting the longer, pointier bullets.

I like the Win Mag a bunch in rifles where you can get that bullet stretched out near the lands. Most 70’s almost need the magazine lengthened to 3.6” which usually means taking the block out of magazine and using a shorter bolt stop. Lotsa 300 Wins do fine short but if you can lengthen them a bit, and use quality brass like ADG or similar you really get to sneak up pretty close to a 300 Wby.

But still, at the end of the day the 180’s will move about 3000, 200’s at 2900 and 215-220’s around 2850’ish which really is a lot of gun for most anything walking!

 

[Guy Miner]

Yup. I've had a few 300 Win Mag rifles and one 300 WSM rifle. I liked them all.

Scotty's velocities are about right from my experience. I happened to like the 300 WSM a bit more, but perhaps that was because of the very nice rifle? Recoil seemed somewhat subdued compared to the 300 Win Mag and accuracy was excellent. But... All that could be very rifle-dependent.

Either one will do nicely. Take the one that makes you grin the most.

Regards, Guy

 

[DrMike]

Either one will do nicely. Take the one that makes you grin the most.

Excellent advice.

 

[theddguide]

Well I've decided to trade in the rifle and im debating as of now between the Christensen mesa in 300 win mag or the new savage ultralight with the proof barrel in 300 wsm. I really love how the browning xbolts feel but I can't bring myself to pay what they want for the pro series or the newest fiber stocks they came out with and I absolutely despise the hell's canyon camo or any other duratouch stock so my heart is really wanting a push feed 300 wsm which is why I'm considering a savage or the mesa. Haven't held the new savage stocks but they look cool for sure and most reviews on the Mesa are very intriguing. Help me decide please lol

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[theddguide]

If only the Mesa was offered in 300 wsm this I feel would be a no brainer for me.

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[mjcmichigan]

I’d go Mesa.


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[theddguide]

I’d go Mesa.


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For which reasons?

My gut says the same thing but I really line the looks of the savage but a bit leery on how good the stock is and how it's mated with that carbon barrel

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[theddguide]

Can anyone explain my primer seating issue? And should I be pushing the shoulders back at all on cases that are fired in the same rifle? Different rifles? Im new to loading belted cases

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[SJB358]

I resize all cases from .001 to .003” at the shoulder depending on the rifle. I do it each and everytime. The cases will still fit in the rifle precisely but will chamber all the time with the same pressure on the bolt.

Not sure what is happening with your primers. Maybe clean your tool up real good and check it out. If it’s still working poor, grab another tool and see if it works the same. I use a RCBS hand tool and it’s been a champ for near ten years.

 

[theddguide]

I resize all cases from .001 to .003” at the shoulder depending on the rifle. I do it each and everytime. The cases will still fit in the rifle precisely but will chamber all the time with the same pressure on the bolt.

Not sure what is happening with your primers. Maybe clean your tool up real good and check it out. If it’s still working poor, grab another tool and see if it works the same. I use a RCBS hand tool and it’s been a champ for near ten years.

So what's all the gripe about belted mags? I understand it stops in the chamber at the belt instead of the shoulder correct? So you basically size them the same as every thing else? Again, what's with some people not liking the belted mags then?

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[SJB358]

I resize all cases from .001 to .003” at the shoulder depending on the rifle. I do it each and everytime. The cases will still fit in the rifle precisely but will chamber all the time with the same pressure on the bolt.

Not sure what is happening with your primers. Maybe clean your tool up real good and check it out. If it’s still working poor, grab another tool and see if it works the same. I use a RCBS hand tool and it’s been a champ for near ten years.

So what's all the gripe about belted mags? I understand it stops in the chamber at the belt instead of the shoulder correct? So you basically size them the same as every thing else? Again, what's with some people not liking the belted mags then?

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There is no deal in my opinion. Any folks that have problem with belted mags are probably not understanding how to properly size their cases. I’ve been using them for quite a long time and like them all, 06, 308, WSM, RUM, Win Mag... they all get sized the same after their first firing. Matter of fact, I try to control headspace from the first shot. If I think there is too much slop with any case it gets necked up and resized just enough to chamber to minimize stretching. That’s with any case.

Folks that gripe about them are believing the hype they are outdated and not needed. I agree they aren’t needed but outdated, nope...

 

[theddguide]

I resize all cases from .001 to .003” at the shoulder depending on the rifle. I do it each and everytime. The cases will still fit in the rifle precisely but will chamber all the time with the same pressure on the bolt.

Not sure what is happening with your primers. Maybe clean your tool up real good and check it out. If it’s still working poor, grab another tool and see if it works the same. I use a RCBS hand tool and it’s been a champ for near ten years.

So what's all the gripe about belted mags? I understand it stops in the chamber at the belt instead of the shoulder correct? So you basically size them the same as every thing else? Again, what's with some people not liking the belted mags then?

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There is no deal in my opinion. Any folks that have problem with belted mags are probably not understanding how to properly size their cases. I’ve been using them for quite a long time and like them all, 06, 308, WSM, RUM, Win Mag... they all get sized the same after their first firing. Matter of fact, I try to control headspace from the first shot. If I think there is too much slop with any case it gets necked up and resized just enough to chamber to minimize stretching. That’s with any case.

Folks that gripe about them are believing the hype they are outdated and not needed. I agree they aren’t needed but outdated, nope...

Gotcha. So, on the few I sized, the shoulders were pushed back a measured .003. Good to go then? Seems too simple.

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[SJB358]

I resize all cases from .001 to .003” at the shoulder depending on the rifle. I do it each and everytime. The cases will still fit in the rifle precisely but will chamber all the time with the same pressure on the bolt.

Not sure what is happening with your primers. Maybe clean your tool up real good and check it out. If it’s still working poor, grab another tool and see if it works the same. I use a RCBS hand tool and it’s been a champ for near ten years.

So what's all the gripe about belted mags? I understand it stops in the chamber at the belt instead of the shoulder correct? So you basically size them the same as every thing else? Again, what's with some people not liking the belted mags then?

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There is no deal in my opinion. Any folks that have problem with belted mags are probably not understanding how to properly size their cases. I’ve been using them for quite a long time and like them all, 06, 308, WSM, RUM, Win Mag... they all get sized the same after their first firing. Matter of fact, I try to control headspace from the first shot. If I think there is too much slop with any case it gets necked up and resized just enough to chamber to minimize stretching. That’s with any case.

Folks that gripe about them are believing the hype they are outdated and not needed. I agree they aren’t needed but outdated, nope...

Gotcha. So, on the few I sized, the shoulders were pushed back a measured .003. Good to go then? Seems too simple.

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Yup, I’d be just fine with that myself. I size till I have just the least amount of resistance. The WSMs need a little more while the Win mags and 06 cases can get by with a little less. .003 is a good place to be.

 

[mjcmichigan]

I do the same. Bump the should back for the specific rifle. Same range. A couple thousandths, no more...

Re the savage vs Mesa.


Personal preference.

I’ve got savages model 111’s, in 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 243 Win, 3006 Springfield. Three of the four needed trigger jobs.(all predate accutriggers from savage). Bedding is eh. I’ve had to spend time getting the barrels free floated, and periodically need to touch them to keep them on. The bolts, all took a lot of break in to make them smooth and slick. I like that I can take them hunting in crappy weather and not care too much. That said, they can all shoot 1/2 MOA with handloads. Bottom line they are inexpensive rifles that shoot well, if you put some TLC into them.

I also have a couple Winchester Model 70’s. The triggers were great out of the box, no creep, clean break, adjustable pull. The Extreme Weather model has a nice bell&carlson stock, never had to mess with it(300WM), the other is a standard stock 300WSM. Both are sub MOA at 300 yards. The pre-64 claw feed is awesome.

Christiansen Arms is a solid step up in the Winchester’s, and the Winchester 70’s set the bar high. I don’t believe Savage is in the same league as Winchester model 70’s.

It might not be perfect logic, but I’ve had enough Savages, that I’m done buying quantity and I’m willing to buy fewer if higher quality.

My short list would include Weatherby, Christiansen, Sako, and a couple others I’d need to think about.

I did enjoy shooting Sako and Weatherby (mark v). They are solid.

For sure that savage you are looking at looks nice.

A cheek riser goes a long way to consistently mounting your gun in the field. On the bench, not so much.



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[theddguide]

I do the same. Bump the should back for the specific rifle. Same range. A couple thousandths, no more...

Re the savage vs Mesa.


Personal preference.

I’ve got savages model 111’s, in 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 243 Win, 3006 Springfield. Three of the four needed trigger jobs.(all predate accutriggers from savage). Bedding is eh. I’ve had to spend time getting the barrels free floated, and periodically need to touch them to keep them on. The bolts, all took a lot of break in to make them smooth and slick. I like that I can take them hunting in crappy weather and not care too much. That said, they can all shoot 1/2 MOA with handloads. Bottom line they are inexpensive rifles that shoot well, if you put some TLC into them.

I also have a couple Winchester Model 70’s. The triggers were great out of the box, no creep, clean break, adjustable pull. The Extreme Weather model has a nice bell&carlson stock, never had to mess with it(300WM), the other is a standard stock 300WSM. Both are sub MOA at 300 yards. The pre-64 claw feed is awesome.

Christiansen Arms is a solid step up in the Winchester’s, and the Winchester 70’s set the bar high. I don’t believe Savage is in the same league as Winchester model 70’s.

It might not be perfect logic, but I’ve had enough Savages, that I’m done buying quantity and I’m willing to buy fewer if higher quality.

My short list would include Weatherby, Christiansen, Sako, and a couple others I’d need to think about.

I did enjoy shooting Sako and Weatherby (mark v). They are solid.

For sure that savage you are looking at looks nice.

A cheek riser goes a long way to consistently mounting your gun in the field. On the bench, not so much.



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Thanks for the advice. I do like the model 70s, although I've always been more of a fan of tang style safety's and push feeds. Mostly, the one I've got is just giving me fits though lol. I question myself everytime I pick up one of my brownings as to why I own anything else? Them bolts are just tight, slick and easy to love.

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[mjcmichigan]

Yes, browning’s have great actions and great triggers.. been there a couple times....been interested in a BLR more than once too...

You prompted me to go look, and you can buy a Christiansen Arms rifle via Cabelas now. Not sure if that is good or bad, or just an indicator of distribution channels standardizing....

I know my favor local gun shop can get me brands they are not dealers for via some distributors.

Go price components and check availability to see if brass makes you care one way or the other...


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[Elkman]

Guide--- I have been loading the 300 WM since 1969, it is a traffic cartridge and probably one of the best cartridges for elk available. Recoil is a little stiff, and you do have to watch seperation just forward of the belt. There are no issues with primers, and a CCI magnum primer has been my go to since I bought the rifle. They are typically very accurate, and overall cartridge length should be kept near factory specs. There is a great selection of powders available, my go to is H-4350 which pushes a 180 gr. Partition at 3050 FPS. Others tell me there are better powders, but my rifle shoots under 1/2 MOA, with the 180 Sierra BT with 70 gr, of H-4350, i push it a little harder for hunting.

 

[SJB358]

Not to disagree, but I have a Christensen Arms Ridgeline in a 300 RUM and while it's a nice rifle, I think a Model 70 either built or bought as a P64, Classic or even the new FN guns is a better hunting rifle, for me. The Ridgeline is light though for a 300 RUM so that is what I got it, but it suffered from feeding issues and magazine restrictions on OAL from day one. I know I could've probably gotten it fixed and refixed but I ended up spending a big more and had AICS compatible bottom metal added to the gun. It has pretty much fixed it, but it still doesn't feed nearly as slick as a well tuned 70 in my use. I think CA builds a nice rifle, but it isn't "better" than a similar 70 that is in the same price range.

Another problem with the CA rifles is they tend to bounce fired cases against the windage turret if they are operated slowly which results in a case falling back into the chamber. Operate it quick and its fine. I haven't ever had that issue with the 70's of any ilk.

It kinda depends on what you wanna do with the rifle. Mesa's aren't particularly light either, so if you plan on carrying it alot, it is something to think about.

Not knocking them, but I wanted to give you my opinion on the examples I have.