Weatherby vanguard submoa?

G

Guest

Guest
Any one have any complaints or praises about the vanguard submoa? I'm looking at purchasing one in 243 for hunting this year.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,013
49
Cartridge : .243 Win.
Bullet : .243, 70, Nosler BalTip 39532
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch or 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 37.61 2713 1144 29462 9233 85.5 1.309
-18.0 82 38.55 2783 1203 31512 9562 87.2 1.275
-16.0 84 39.49 2853 1265 33707 9882 88.7 1.242
-14.0 86 40.43 2924 1329 36059 10192 90.2 1.210
-12.0 88 41.37 2995 1394 38581 10489 91.6 1.174
-10.0 90 42.31 3066 1462 41286 10773 92.9 1.138
-08.0 92 43.25 3138 1530 44191 11041 94.2 1.103
-06.0 94 44.19 3209 1601 47311 11292 95.3 1.069
-04.0 96 45.13 3281 1673 50664 11524 96.3 1.036
-02.0 98 46.07 3352 1747 54274 11736 97.2 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 47.01 3423 1821 58160 11927 98.0 0.974 ! Near Maximum !

+02.0 102 47.95 3494 1898 62352 12094 98.6 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 48.89 3565 1975 66870 12238 99.1 0.916 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 49.83 3635 2053 71767 12355 99.6 0.888 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 50.77 3704 2133 77042 12447 99.8 0.862 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 51.71 3773 2213 82716 12510 100.0 0.836 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 47.01 3596 2010 70109 11759 100.0 0.899 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 47.01 3193 1585 47368 11419 91.2 1.069
 

Richracer1

Handloader
May 12, 2005
2,103
23
I just got a Vanguard Sporter 30-06 (not a "Sub-MOA" model). Worked up a load with Varget and 165ABs. The best groups was around .5". So, if they are stating it's "Sub-MOA" then it ought to be a tack driver.
As for the rifle itself, I think this sporter looks great. It actually surprised me.

Go for it.
 

375hh1973

Beginner
Mar 31, 2007
171
12
I have a SUB-MOA stainless/synthetic in .338 win mag. It wears a Leupy 2.5-8x36. I really like this gun, it has become my go to gun, seems like I always grab it to go hunting. Accuracy is phenomenal, truly sub-moa. My particular gun, the trigger wasn't the best when it was new but that would be my only issue.
 

bullet

Handloader
Dec 26, 2007
4,973
7
Richracer1":1qfu2ilx said:
I just got a Vanguard Sporter 30-06 (not a "Sub-MOA" model). Worked up a load with Varget and 165ABs. The best groups was around .5". So, if they are stating it's "Sub-MOA" then it ought to be a tack driver.
As for the rifle itself, I think this sporter looks great. It actually surprised me.

Go for it.

Yes I agree they are tack drivers when like any rifle put together correctly with a good barrel like the Sub-MOA Vanguard. But there is a critical component to the whole picture. The shooter has to do two things well if he is hand loading. 1. Get the right hand load by trying a variety of powder, bullets, seating depths, neck tension, and components. 2. And most of all his shooting. We had a man in our hunting lease who bought a fine rifle and could not figure out what was wrong because the best group he got at 100yds was 2 1/2" and most were 3 and 4 inch groups. He was using factory ammo. Well a few of us asked him if we could shoot a three round group. All three of us were under 1 1/4" and two of us were barely over .424". Every once in a while it is the rifle but most of the time it is the handloader's job at the loading bench and his shooting that ends up being the problem.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,013
49
The rifles themselves are great but they should NOT charge more for them! I was told that the good shooting Vanguards are "made" into sub MOa's and charge more for them.

Bull!

FOR WHAT Weatherbies COST , EVERYTHING WITH THE NAME WEATHERBY SHOULD SHOOT WELL UNDER MOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Tikka/Sako or Savage can do it with a $500 (or less ....Savage/Steven 200 at sub $300.00) rifles why can't WBY do it with $400 -$2000 rifles??????????????????????????
 

GB300wm

Handloader
Jan 2, 2005
307
0
WOW pop, when I first joined this forum you were a weatherby guy. You even talked me into my weatherby and I appreciate it. Now it sounds like your anti weatherby. That's fine, but don't bash them. I also disagree with your second statement, I have a sako and believe me it costs more than $500. It does shoot sub moa, but guess what, it won't outshoot my Weatherby. I'm not going to bash anyones rifle here either. People buy rifles for many different reasons.
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,013
49
No sir not at all. Bashing the Bees was not my intention,
I love weatherbies. It is just that they are getting to the point that they cost more than some used cars!
Additionally some of the US made Bees that I have worked with (usually friends') did not fair much better than 1.5 MOA. For $1000 rifles to me is unacceptable. What is even worse is that it was a 300 Bee Accumark. My Savage 300 RUM custom was doing .55" all day. I paid 600 bucks less than he did. He sold it and got a Sendero 300 RUM.

Now the Japs....wow man they are shooters!!!!

My 378 300 257 and 416 were all Japs and tackdrivers.

As far as the Sako goes I meant Tikka by Sako. Sorry for the confusion.
Remember this ia only my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...... :lol:
 

Antelope_Sniper

Handloader
Jan 25, 2008
2,618
0
My understanding is the "submoa" weatherby's are the exact rifle as the non-submoa rifles. When Weatherby tests the rifles, if it shoots less then a 1" group, they stick the target in the box, and raise the price. Overall I agree with POP, any bolt action hunting style rifle over $1,000.00 should shoot under an inch out of the box.
 

bullet

Handloader
Dec 26, 2007
4,973
7
Yes Watherby is expensive. The Mark V and my Jap, USA and German Weatherby mark V's I have owned are all under 7/8" shooters and Three under 1/2" and I would not trade my Mark V's for any make of rifle although I do like Savage, Kimber, Sako, and Mod 70 and some Remington models. I think all of the rifle companies are asking to much for what you get.
 
G

Guest

Guest
I can't speak for all US made Mark V's, but the one I have is a shooter, for sure. I can routinely get sub-.5" groups at 100yds out of it, when I use it's preferred load. I've heard that some of the early US production runs were not as solid as the more recent stuff, but I can't verify anything of that sort.

As for the Sub-MOA Vanguards, they're still one of the best deals in new rifles out there. You can get the blued version for less than $700, and the stainless version for less than $800 if you shop around. There's not a comparable rifle available for a whole lot less than that, except maybe the Tikka, and I'm not thrilled with the way those guns look or feel in my hand and up to my shoulder. Perhaps shooting one would change my mind, but they just don't fit me well when I handle them. Remington, Browning, and the various other mainstream manufacturers don't make anything comparable to the Vanguard for even $100 more across the board, so the only real comparison is the Savage, which I will concede is probably as accurate as anything out there, but at the cost of aesthetics to some degree. Certainly the stocks available on the Savage are not as nice as the Vanguard selection, especially on the wood side. Anyway, to each his own as far as rifle choices, but to bash the Sub-MOA Vanguard as too expensive is to leave everything but Savage and Tikka (and the real el cheapo stuff otherwise) as the only acceptable rifles, and I just don't agree.
 

bullet

Handloader
Dec 26, 2007
4,973
7
The Weatherby Mark V's made in the USA have solved all their assembly line issues and now make the strongest Mark V ever with the tightest tolerance ever achieved by a manufacture of the Mark V. Howa speaks for itself also and is a very fine product and the Stocks, ergonomics of the rifle along with the finer points are not a bad value at all considering what everyone else is offering and charging for what you get. When you consider the Mark V and it's 54 degree bolt, it's strength and no production bolt rifle has a stronger actoin, precision in the latest production runs over the last two years or so in the tolerances, the fine stocks, triggers barrels, and the ergonomics you are in essence getting a custom rifle cheaper than you can build one. I have thought about this thread a while and I must say without reservation that the Mark V Weatherby gives more for what you spend and get across the board than any other maker of production bolt rifles. To have a finer custom you would have to buy a Nosler custom or like custom that cost much much more. Weatherby Mark V's and Vanguards fill a very needed gap in the industry today even more so than they have in the past. No, I do not work for Weatherby nor sell them or do adds for them. I have just come to know in life what is a fine production rifle that will last a life time and more and is a joy to shoot, own and most of all hunt with because of the fine cartridges they shoot.
 

Big Squeeze

Handloader
May 29, 2007
828
0
bullet":212eiuru said:
The Weatherby Mark V's made in the USA have solved all their assembly line issues and now make the strongest Mark V ever with the tightest tolerance ever achieved by a manufacture of the Mark V. Howa speaks for itself also and is a very fine product and the Stocks, ergonomics of the rifle along with the finer points are not a bad value at all considering what everyone else is offering and charging for what you get. When you consider the Mark V and it's 54 degree bolt, it's strength and no production bolt rifle has a stronger actoin, precision in the latest production runs over the last two years or so in the tolerances, the fine stocks, triggers barrels, and the ergonomics you are in essence getting a custom rifle cheaper than you can build one. I have thought about this thread a while and I must say without reservation that the Mark V Weatherby gives more for what you spend and get across the board than any other maker of production bolt rifles. To have a finer custom you would have to buy a Nosler custom or like custom that cost much much more. Weatherby Mark V's and Vanguards fill a very needed gap in the industry today even more so than they have in the past. No, I do not work for Weatherby nor sell them or do adds for them. I have just come to know in life what is a fine production rifle that will last a life time and more and is a joy to shoot, own and most of all hunt with because of the fine cartridges they shoot.
.......................................Yep! The Mk5 actions are wonderful and are extremely strong! While all bolt actions vary as to their strengths, bells and whistles, with some being stronger and smoother than others, unless one makes a huge reloading mishap or deliberately seeks to destroy an action, they should all hold up very well for the life of the rifle!.............The Mk5`s, the Remy 700`s, the Howa/Vanguards, the Ruger M77`s, the Brownings, the Mausers or any well made production action will last given proper care (no consistent loads over the max.) and maintainence..............Dollar wise IMO, the Howa/Vanguard action cannot be beaten!
 

FOTIS

Range Officer
Staff member
Oct 30, 2004
23,013
49
dubyam":eaeqnub8 said:
................. I've heard that some of the early US production runs were not as solid as the more recent stuff, but I can't verify anything of that sort...........................

I think you're dead on......
 

GB300wm

Handloader
Jan 2, 2005
307
0
My Accumark is of recent US production and they must have worked out their kinks. My 257 shoots .170(best) to .450 everytime. After 250 shots, including working up loads, my worst group is .937". This thing is unbelievable. I have no other way to explain it. Ragged hole groups everytime and it's not that picky on loads. It's warmed up here a bit and my last outing gave me a group of .398" with 3714 av velocity on a 100 gr bullet. Not many rifles can do that with the consistency that I'm getting out of my accumark. I do have custom rifles and now I'm scared to bring them out if the accumark is there. I spent a lot of money on these custom jobs.........
 

bullet

Handloader
Dec 26, 2007
4,973
7
Yeah, here are the last targets from all of my Weahterby Mark V's

.375Wby
IMG_6536.jpg


257-300Wby
IMG_6375.jpg


300Wby
IMG_5533.jpg


257Wby
IMG_5597.jpg
 

GB300wm

Handloader
Jan 2, 2005
307
0
Great shooting bullet. I've never known accuracy like that till I got my own Weatherby.......very nice groups
 

bullet

Handloader
Dec 26, 2007
4,973
7
Yes, I really like shooting my Weatherby's and even my Vanguard 300Wby really shot well before I sold it and bought a Mark V in 300Wby. Now that said, I really and I mean really would like to shoot a Nosler custom. Yes, I really would, just to see what I could do with her. If I keep talking like this I just might go to the bank in a few months or so depending on how a project I am working on in business goes. :):)
 

stephenj

Beginner
Nov 19, 2007
8
0
the vanguards are test-fired; those with 3 shot groups of less than .7" are labeled 'sub-moa'. i have a wal-mart close-out 30-06 vanguard that shoots sub-moa; that was $250 bucks 2 years ago. my varmint special vanguard also shoots sub-moa; it was a bit over 500 a year ago. for the money, the vanguard is a value. but i'm liking the tikkas more these days. if they fit your frame, they will not disappoint on accuracy. the overcharge and hype for sub-moa vanguards is a joke.
 
Top