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 Post subject: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:45 pm
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After shooting, I have always removed the nipple and used a jag with patches in hot water with dawn dish soap to get the heavy fowling out of the barrel. From there, I use the T/C bore cleaner on a patch with a jag until it comes out white. After that, I use a dry patch to dry the barrel out and then follow with a few patches dipped in Bore Butter.

This is where I get my question from, the patch with Bore Butter always comes out with rust on it?? Why do all the other patches come out clean and then when I use Bore Butter to season the barrel I see signs of rust?

The rifle is a T/C Hawken .50 cal.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:08 pm
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Location: Rockford, MI
I have used T/C bore butter in my muzzleloaders for years.
The bores are seasoned, just like a cast iron skillet.
I run a couple patches down the bore after every shot. The breach plugs are washed in hot soapy water, dried and lightly coated with Bore Butter. I've never had a problem or any rust.

JD338

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:25 pm 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: The Keystone State
Hot water can sometimes cause flash rust to form.

Try lukewarm or even cold water. See if it makes a difference.

I use room temp tap water to clean my flintlock.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 am
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Location: East Coast
Just my opinion but it could that your not getting all the water out and the bore is still damp from cleaning. I use to use black powder solvent that you would mix with water and it did well but would flush with boiling water and dry the bore. But that was before I discovered Gunzilla bore cleaner which works great on black powder as well as rifle and pistol powder to get the carbon out. All the guys who belong to the NSSA use it to clean their muskets after a day of shooting.
No water no rust.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
That waxy looking brown stuff on your patch is not rust. It is the bore butter that has seasoned your barrel and has browned from the heat of the firing. I once used bore butter for all my patch lubes and protection and I couldn't understand where that rusty looking stuff came from. It didn't use to look that way.
Finally it dawned on me that it only started after I switched to bore butter. So I cleaned all my barrels with brake cleaner to remove every trace of the bore butter seasoning.
Now, none of my patches come out with that brown, rusty looking stuff on them.
However, I do still use it occasionally as a patch lube. I like to use 100% Mink Oil for my hunting patch lube but I'm out of it, so this year I've been using bore butter. And when it builds up to the point where the patches come looking brown again I know how to get it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Interesting Darkhorse. Now that you say that, it is not rust but exactly what you are saying about the browned bore butter.

So, what do you protect your barrel with when not in use?


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
I prefer to use Jim Chambers Accraguard for my bores. This is a heavy oil that works great for that purpose. If I'm not in the shop when I clean a rifle then I use Remington oil as I have a quantity of that in my man cave. But I relube with the Accraguard as soon as possible.
http://www.flintlocks.com/parts.htm
The Accraguard also works great for wiping down your barrel and other metal parts but I don't use it on wood. Any good gun oil should work fine for protecting that bore I just prefer the Accraguard.
He also sells Accralube which is a fine oil for moving parts such as the tumbler in your lock. I prefer this for lubing my locks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:05 am 
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So, is the extra Bore Butter doing any harm? The rifle is accurate and seems to be working when needed. Do I need to change or can I keep on doing what I have been doing for the past 15 years with the rifle??? I don't want to do any more damage to my barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:18 am 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: The Keystone State
I use just a general purpose light oil on my bore and lock parts.

Just don't forget to swab it out before shooting. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
From what I've read is if there is moisture in the bore and you put a layer of bore butter on for protection, then it is possible that rust will form under the bore butter. But I've never had that happen so I don't know.
I used it for many years and I saw no damage from using it, both as a patch lube and protector.
I stopped using it for 2 reasons; 1. I just didn't like the brown rusty looking goo that was coming out with my patches. When I clean I want to see it clean.
2. When the Rice barrel on my .40 was new I could only get 2 shots with the bore butter before I had to clean it. After the first shot I had to use a stainless range rod to seat the next ball. But when I used "Original LeHigh Valley Patch Lube" loading was much easier and I could get many shots between cleanings.
So I started using the LHV for all my patch lubes. This is the best lube I've found for any shooting but hunting. It dries out to fast and can cause corrosion if left loaded after just a couple of days.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:43 pm 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: The Keystone State
I actually use either just spit or Hoppes 9+ when I'm at the range. I can shoot my 62 forever and not clean between shots.

When I get my 36, that may well be a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
If you do have some problems try some of the Original LHV and see if that doesn't slick things up for you. I was very surprised as I'd bought a bottle some years back because of all the good things I'd read about it but never actually tried it. But that first day with the .40 I was having so much trouble that I tried it out of desperation. I still use it with the .40, even for squirrel hunting.
Now that the .40 is well broken in I can use bore butter again without all the seating problems I had before.
A lot of people use Ballistol but I've never tried it.
Do you use regular Hoppe's or one formulated for black powder?
I used spit back in the 70's and early 80's for all my match shooting. My old Renegade shot real good with it. I can't remember why I stopped using it.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:10 pm 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: The Keystone State
I use 9+, the bp labeled stuff.

I live real close to Dixon's, if you're familiar with that shop name. I get it there.

Even if I shoot with spit patches, I clean with hoppes before heading home so the family doesn't complain about the sulfur smell. Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:38 am 
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Location: East Coast
tddeangelo wrote:
I use 9+, the bp labeled stuff.

I live real close to Dixon's, if you're familiar with that shop name. I get it there.

Even if I shoot with spit patches, I clean with hoppes before heading home so the family doesn't complain about the sulfur smell. Lol
Get a bottle of Gunzilla and you won't have to worry about the sulfur smell or the rust. Suppose to be an all natural product and I use it in all my guns for general cleaning. The members I know who belong to the North South Skirmishers Association use it to clean their muskets after a day of shooting at the range.
As a disclaimer I don't have stock in or work for the company that makes Gunzilla. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:32 pm 
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EEZOXX (sp?) is supposed to work well in muzzle loaders. Not a petroleum based product. Don't have a muzzle loader but I use it on all my rifles and shotguns.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:16 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
This is an old post I know, but I'm reviving it to update my process.
I have changed things a little. I now do most of my cleaning outside the back door using pure cold water, by putting a toothpick in the touchhole and squirting water down the bore, then swabbing with wet patches. I do this until the patches come out clean. Two dry patches then the rifle is stood upside down to drain for a 1/2 hour to drain. Then I run a clean patch sopping wet with wd40 down the bore and let it sit for awhile.
I clean the lock with a toothbrush under scalding hot water, then shake off excess water, pat dry with a paper towel and let it sit until it cools. Then it's sprayed with wd40, then dried off with a paper towel.
Then a few dry patches are run down the barrel to remove any water displaced by the wd40. After this a patch wet with Rem Oil is run through the barrel.
Any fouling in the lock area is wiped off and the lock is installed back in the rifle.
For the outside protection of both metal and wood I use Johnson's paste wax. Several coats on the metal both under the barrel and all surfaces. Side plate, buttplate, RR pipes, all metal surfaces are waxed. All of my hunting rifles and pistols are now protected by wax.
When I come in from shooting or hunting I simply take a cotton cloth and rub the waxed areas briskly. Occasionally I put new coats on when I think I need it.
I've been doing this for a number of years now and wish I'd started doing it sooner. Makes things much easier and gives total protection.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:11 am 

Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 8:30 pm
Posts: 2081
Location: The Keystone State
I actually started doing nearly exactly this, DH.

My last time shooting my 62 was a little over a week ago, and the tang screw won't freakin' budge to remove it. I'm taking it for the gentleman who made it to have a look and help me with it (And then clean up my mangling of the screw slot...oops!).

But it needed to be cleaned. I'm usually a fan of plunging water through it in a bucket and fully dismounting the barrel, but that wasn't an option.

The vent on my barrel is juuuuust a smidge too big for a round toothpick to fully seal when the bore is full. Keep in mind, a 62-bore 46" long means a fair bit of water pressure on that vent if vertical.

So I would fill it and then lay it horizontal on the sink with the vent down which stopped it from weeping water. I should just get some dry wood and split it into kindling sized pieces and then do a quick whittle with my pocket knife to make a plug each time I need one. That'd likely seal properly.

Regardless...

I swabbed with Hoppes 9+ (3 soaked patches) at the range, then came home.

Filled the bore, give it a minute or so, then dumped. Repeated till the dumped out water stopped having color to it.

Then wet patched (water) the bore till the patches came out clean, then dry patched it till they were dry/white when they came out.

Let it sit a bit, then WD40'ed it, dry patched that, let it sit a bit....

Sounds like more of a process than it is. Worked better than I'd hoped.

I do think I will get a breech face scraper just to get into the nooks and crannies down there. Plunging it with the work rod in a bucket of water would get all traces out, but I don't think this method will. A scraper will just be cheap insurance that the face is clean, as well as the inside corner/juncture of the breech face and the barrel.

But I definitely like this better than a full disassembly. I tried the Chambers flush kit, and I just couldn't get it to sit/seal right on either of my long guns. This method is a lot better, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleaning ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:34 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 698
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
Tom, it is a process but one I consider necessary to keep a rifle in top condition.
My toothpicks sometimes leak also. When I want a real good cleaning job I push those pins out and remove the barrel then dunk the breech in a bucket of water and flush it good and clean.
I use a breech plug scraper everytime I clean regardless of the method used for cleaning. Even flushing the barrel doesn't always remove that fire baked fouling on the breech plug.
I too tried one of those flush kits. When it worked it worked good but most of the time it leaked, sometimes with a lot of water pressure squirting out around the seal.
Good luck on getting a buck with that .62 caliber.
I haven't gone yet, maybe Sunday I'll get a chance. I'm still cleaning up from Hurricane Michael and I need to finish before I start hunting seriously.

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