Range, how far is too far with a pistol?

Ridgerunner665

Handloader
Oct 28, 2008
2,507
260
I've been wondering about this lately...I know the common, and correct, answer is to not exceed my ability to hit where I aim.

But for this discussion I'd like to leave shooting ability out of the equation, lets just assume we can all hit a pie plate at 300 yards with a pistol...from the hip (y) ...hahaha, kidding about the from the hip part.

This is a discussion of terminal ballistics...and I'm specifically curious to know just how far a 200 grain XTP with a muzzle velocity of 1,305 fps can cleanly take a deer. The 10mm can muster over 750 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle...if you subscribe to the energy idea....I've taken several deer with a 45acp with only a little over 350 ft. lbs. of energy, all clean kills.


I'm talking a big deer...not a 100 lb. doe, I'm after them old bruiser bucks that often exceed 200 pounds live weight that have been known to absorb good hits and keep on going never to be seen again...I'm convinced an old whitetail buck just might be harder to stop than the big 5 if you catch them when they're all wired up.

I've got one of these bucks located at one of my hunting spots...

The place where I think I can corner him, the shot will be no more than 20 yards...but I'm still curious, just how far should I shoot with the 10mm and expect a quick, clean kill.

He was a big 9 point last year...the next trail cam pics should tell the tale about this year a little better, if I can get my wife to go check them for me...NOT EASY to get to this one.
 
2 thoughts come to mind...

First, what is the retained energy at various ranges for the cartridge load that you plan on using?

Second, no two animals react in the same manner when shot. A wary animal reacts completely different when hit compared to an unwary animal. A larger animal reacts differently than a smaller animal. A buck in the rut pumped full of testosterone and adrenaline also reacts differently than a pre or post rut buck.

As I am neither an experienced handgun hunter (not legal here), I cannot say what works when and where. I wish that I had more handgun experience to be able to answer your question adequately. I hope to learn more from those who have better answers to your question.
 
I know some are going to go bananas over this response, but I have taken down two bucks one 210 lbs and the other 175 lbs with a 22 magnum from a Ruger revolver at around 50 yds. They were both clean kills neck shots and we're both dead by the time I could walk up to them. The point of this is that it mainly depends on where you hit them.


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I'd want a bullet with a big flat frontal area since the XTP's will probably not expand much at longer distances, but taking the shooter out of it, I'd feel comfortable killing at deer at a 100 yards, maybe more but hitting one cleanly at that distance with anything but a scoped rig would take me out of the running.

Buffalo were killed by the train load by a lowly 500'ish grain bullet going about 1100 FPS and some were a long danged way away. It isn't muzzle velocity or energy that kills with the bigger bullets, it is their ability to provide a good wound and deflate stuff.. About like a broadhead really. The broadhead in this case would be the Wide Flat Nose, as a round nose or even a small HP isn't likely to cut tissue like the WFN's would.

Interesting topic though.. I'd take a buck all day long at 20 yards with a 10mm though.. It's got the ooomph..
 
SJB358":1ce5gkah said:
I'd want a bullet with a big flat frontal area since the XTP's will probably not expand much at longer distances, but taking the shooter out of it, I'd feel comfortable killing at deer at a 100 yards, maybe more but hitting one cleanly at that distance with anything but a scoped rig would take me out of the running.

Buffalo were killed by the train load by a lowly 500'ish grain bullet going about 1100 FPS and some were a long danged way away. It isn't muzzle velocity or energy that kills with the bigger bullets, it is their ability to provide a good wound and deflate stuff.. About like a broadhead really. The broadhead in this case would be the Wide Flat Nose, as a round nose or even a small HP isn't likely to cut tissue like the WFN's would.

Interesting topic though.. I'd take a buck all day long at 20 yards with a 10mm though.. It's got the ooomph..
Have you tried red dots on pistols?

I seriously surprised myself with what I could do at 100 yards.... Small 2.5 moa dot and a solid rest.
 
On the XTP expanding...

Bullet tests coming soon.... From 1,000 to 1,300 fps.

They're still going just over 1,000 fps at 150 yards (1,305 fps at the muzzle).

I'm gonna do these tests at the actual distance, not using reduced loads.
 
Ridgerunner665":24nmqxdl said:
SJB358":24nmqxdl said:
I'd want a bullet with a big flat frontal area since the XTP's will probably not expand much at longer distances, but taking the shooter out of it, I'd feel comfortable killing at deer at a 100 yards, maybe more but hitting one cleanly at that distance with anything but a scoped rig would take me out of the running.

Buffalo were killed by the train load by a lowly 500'ish grain bullet going about 1100 FPS and some were a long danged way away. It isn't muzzle velocity or energy that kills with the bigger bullets, it is their ability to provide a good wound and deflate stuff.. About like a broadhead really. The broadhead in this case would be the Wide Flat Nose, as a round nose or even a small HP isn't likely to cut tissue like the WFN's would.

Interesting topic though.. I'd take a buck all day long at 20 yards with a 10mm though.. It's got the ooomph..
Have you tried red dots on pistols?

I seriously surprised myself with what I could do at 100 yards.... Small 2.5 moa dot and a solid rest.

I have not... YET..
 
Ridgerunner665":hdt5z1zv said:
On the XTP expanding...

Bullet tests coming soon.... From 1,000 to 1,300 fps.

They're still going just over 1,000 fps at 150 yards (1,305 fps at the muzzle).

I'm gonna do these tests at the actual distance, not using reduced loads.

I am looking forward to these tests. I have ran a ton of the 180/200 grain Noslers through my G29 and some through the G40. My favorite pistol bullet is the Speer GD or Deep Curl, whatever they are calling it.. Might have to look for the Delta Point for my G40...

Again, can't wait to see what you get for expansion. Might be time to get the LNL tuned up for a run.
 
It takes the aging eyes out of the equation.

Not saying you're old, lol... I'm 44 and pistol sights are becoming difficult for me.
 
I've taken two deer with 44 magnum pistol. One at 74 yards with a 255 gr WFN at 1150 fps. The second one at 52 yards with Federal fusion 240 SP at around 1300 fps. I was not extremely impressed with the fusion load. I honestly don't believe it expanded, if it did it wasn't much. It was 175 lb buck shot in front shoulder quartering toward me. He took the bullet at rared straight up. He tried to run but he could just barely walk very shakily. He was about to go down, but it was taking a long time so I put a second one between his shoulder blades at 80 yards to finish him quickly. Within modest ranges I'm a big fan of the xtp. I believe it penetrates deep and expands very well, atleast from very warm 44 mag speeds. But when in doubt the old hardcast WFN delivers extreme amounts of shock and penetrates like crazy.


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Ol' Elmer Keith claimed to have taken game at 600 yds with a revolver...

BTW, I'm not convinced that much, if any, expansion is necessary when starting out with a heavy .40 cal bullet. The big hard cast revolver slugs kill quite well, and aren't known for expansion.

My only deer kills with a revolver were at modest range, 240 gr JHP factory ammo at 1200+ fps.

I like your approach to your handgun hunting!

Guy
 
I'm conflicted about using cast bullets....I put a lot of effort and money into casting for the 45-70 and just didn't get the desired results.... I had some good guys tutoring me....Ranch Dog, Dave, and some others on Marlin Owners, even Marshall Stanton himself... But all I ever got was barrel leading with everything except reduced loads.

As a result, I'm a skeptic of lead bullets.... I know they can work, but I'm just not that into fiddling with it to find what works.

I thought about trying some Beartooth, but when I got to the ordering part I couldn't decide between .401" or .402" so I got irritated and abandoned the whole idea.

Besides, he is backordered something terrible last I heard.
 
Ha! All I did for my .45/70 was order up some 425 gr Piledriver Juniors in .459 or .460, and run 'em up to 1950 fps with no leading...

Ya, the recoil was brisk. That's a good manly word. Brisk. I suspect that load would have shot through a T-Rex or a Mastadon, no problem. :grin:

Sold the danged big bore Marlin and bought a .375 H&H to save my shoulder!

Guy
 
SJB358":3n85jj9r said:
Ridgerunner665":3n85jj9r said:
On the XTP expanding...

Bullet tests coming soon.... From 1,000 to 1,300 fps.

They're still going just over 1,000 fps at 150 yards (1,305 fps at the muzzle).

I'm gonna do these tests at the actual distance, not using reduced loads.

I am looking forward to these tests. I have ran a ton of the 180/200 grain Noslers through my G29 and some through the G40. My favorite pistol bullet is the Speer GD or Deep Curl, whatever they are calling it.. Might have to look for the Delta Point for my G40...

Again, can't wait to see what you get for expansion. Might be time to get the LNL tuned up for a run.
These bullet tests might be forthcoming next weekend... If nothing changes.

I do have enough jugs for 2 tests.... One at high speed, one at low speed.

I might cheat though to save some time... I may use the shorter, faster twist factory barrel for the low speed tests.... I gotta do some math to see how close I can get the bullet RPM's.

The 7" KKM barrel is spun 1 in 16", the 6" Glock barrel is 1 in 9.84" or something like that.
 
To make the RPM's match...I'd need to do the slow speed test at 800 fps from the Glock barrel.

The Hornady box says they'll work between 1,300 and 700 fps...they used to say 1,200-700, and the website still does...but my boxes say 1,300 fps.

I guess if it'll expand at 800 fps it'll expand at 1,000 fps...I'm gonna do the "slow" test at 800 fps.

I know XTP's have a reputation of not expanding sometimes, but I also think much of that bad rap comes from testing through denim and wallboard and such...in flesh, in my limited experience (a few deer with 45acp), they'll expand exactly as advertised (1.5x) every time.

I'm hoping the 10mm version behaves the same as the 45acp version...we're about to find out.
 
The main reason I want to do this test up close is so I don't hit the jugs off center and have to wait several more weeks to get enough jugs to try again.

I'm pretty confident I can hit the jugs at 150 yards...but hitting them in the center might be a bit of a challenge...I'd prefer to have 3 rows of 7 jugs to do that, and I just don't have that many jugs right now.
 
Looking over Hornady load data and the powders I have, it appears I should be able to get the 200 XTP loaded down to around 850 fps using Unique.
 
Ridgerunner665":omc7k6qd said:
Looking over Hornady load data and the powders I have, it appears I should be able to get the 200 XTP loaded down to around 850 fps using Unique.

I'd be careful judging expansion using reduced loads RR. They don't have the same RPMS as a bullet going full tilt so they do expand differently.
 
I'm using 2 different barrels.... One of them is 1-16, the other is 1-9.84.

The faster twist barrel with the slower velocity has the same RPM's, or close to it.
 
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