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 Post subject: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:57 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 606
If anyone here loads for this old caliber I would appreciate your sharing the information

Components will not be hard to come by, but any "reloading" info any of you have will be appreciated, thank you

Also, I think the 300 gr bullet was the weight of bullet it was originally designed to use, please let me know if my memory is serving me well or not on that point


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:35 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:23 pm
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Location: Echo, Oregon
I actually have seen the cartridge, that's about it for information.
Last I read you were in some exotic location. Did you find one you're bringing home?


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:44 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
Posts: 606
thank you for the reply salmon chaser and your one up on me as I dont think I have ever seen a cartridge.

No, I have not even seen the rifle. This was the Auction Jamila went to in Austria and the winning bidder did not come up with the money and since I was the second bidder they contacted me. Jamila said it is a lot like Dr Mike and I, in good shape for the shape we are in, and that it is completely functional and was fired a few times at the auction. I though it would be a cool gift for Cheyenne, to go wth her lever action collection, so I may never see it, but I am also curious about how easy this is going to be to get it into Canada--that is another subject that is being researched at this time


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:45 pm
Posts: 22527
Location: Cheyenne, WY
http://50caliberforum.proboards.com/thr ... ata-50-110

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage. ... iberID=295

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:07 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:29 pm
Posts: 5
Europe wrote:
thank you for the reply salmon chaser and your one up on me as I dont think I have ever seen a cartridge.

No, I have not even seen the rifle. This was the Auction Jamila went to in Austria and the winning bidder did not come up with the money and since I was the second bidder they contacted me. Jamila said it is a lot like Dr Mike and I, in good shape for the shape we are in, and that it is completely functional and was fired a few times at the auction. I though it would be a cool gift for Cheyenne, to go wth her lever action collection, so I may never see it, but I am also curious about how easy this is going to be to get it into Canada--that is another subject that is being researched at this time
FWIW. From a Montana man like me. :-) I would call the Sharps people in Belgrade, MT and ask them what they know about the cartrage. I'm sure they would be happy to visit with you for a few minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:47 am 
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Posts: 433
April,

You are correct, in, that the original bullet weight was 300gr, LRNFP(lead round nose flat point). It debuted in the 1886 Winchester as only a blackpowder load I believe in 1899.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:52 am 
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The original velocity of the 300 gr bullet was 1605 fps, with 1702 ft-lbs of energy.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:00 am 
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The smokeless load got the 300 gr bullet going 2225 fps with almost 3300 ft-lbs of energy.
Now, I would say about the smokeless load, I would only try it in a Modern Browning 1886, with its superior metallurgy, compared to the soft steel of an original 1886.
Also, I would check the rifling of the bore very well. Black powder tended to ruin a lot of bores that didn't have deep rifling.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 am 
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Europe wrote:
If anyone here loads for this old caliber I would appreciate your sharing the information

Components will not be hard to come by, but any "reloading" info any of you have will be appreciated, thank you

Also, I think the 300 gr bullet was the weight of bullet it was originally designed to use, please let me know if my memory is serving me well or not on that point
Here's some info I have from an old Cartridges of the World reloading book I have.Image

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 am
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Location: East Coast
Sounds like you got a fine old Buffalo rifle on your hands.
I don't load for it but if the condition and price was right I wouldn't pass on it.
The 50-110 was very popular for hunting Bison and at one time the most powerful rifle cartridge made.
Reloading for it shouldn't be a problem and you might even be able to find loaded ammo for it.
I do believe Starline makes brass for it but not sure.
If the bore is bad it would be a candidate for a gun smith to line the barrel and with the low pressure of the cartridge it would last a life time.


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
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Location: Northern British Columbia
Delightful old cartridge and delightful acquisition, April. I should imagine that Cheyenne would be very pleased to add this to her collection. Components should be available and some great loads can be crafted.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Truck Driver & DrMike,

Starline does make brass for it, and Buffalo Bore cartridge company makes loaded ammo for it, but the cost per box of 20 usually runs anywhere $68 and up, depending on which company you order from.


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
I think it was called the 50-110 Express since it was loaded for the 1886 with a 300. I’m pretty sure they used a 450-500 in the Sharp’s. Ol TR used a 50-110 from what I remember of his old writings for Elk and grizzly.

Either way, sounds like a cool rifle. Wished I had more to add.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:35 pm 
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SJB358 wrote:
I think it was called the 50-110 Express since it was loaded for the 1886 with a 300. I’m pretty sure they used a 450-500 in the Sharp’s. Ol TR used a 50-110 from what I remember of his old writings for Elk and grizzly.

Either way, sounds like a cool rifle. Wished I had more to add.
Every little bit counts SJB358

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:21 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:44 am
Posts: 1064
Location: East TN
The best way to load the Winchester 50-110 is with BLACK POWDER like it was originally loaded. Use a 30" or so drop tube and trickle enough FG or Cartridge grade powder down it until the case is filled to the level that you can place a flat disk wad made from a paraffin coated milk, juice etc. carton or a Walters wonder wad or thin poster board disk coated with wax on top of the powder and compress the powder down about 1/10 inch and then be able to seat the bullet solid against the wad. Oh! Use a Magnum primer to light all that powder. Use SPG bullet lube or one of the lubes especially made for black powder cartridge bullets. 50% bees wax and 50% olive oil by volume mixed in a double bowler works great also. This will keep the fouling in the bore soft so you can attain accuracy. When you go to shoot the rifle hold on to your socks because it just may knock them off of you.


Last edited by 1Shot on Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:24 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
1Shot wrote:
The best way to load the Winchester 50-110 is with BLACK POWDER like it was originally loaded. Use a 30" or so drop tube and trickle enough FG or FFG or Cartridge grade powder down it until the case is filled to the level that you can place a flat disk wad made from a paraffin coated milk, juice etc. carton or a Walters wonder wad or thin poster board disk coated with wax on top of the powder and compress the powder down about 1/10 inch and then be able to seat the bullet solid against the wad. Oh! Use a Magnum primer to light all that powder. Use SPG bullet lube or one of the lubes especially made for black powder cartridge bullets. 50% bees wax and 50% olive oil by volume mixed in a double bowler works great also. This will keep the fouling in the bore soft so you can attain accuracy. When you go to shoot the rifle hold on to your socks because it just may knock them off of you.


Now that sounds pretty awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:53 am 
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1Shot wrote:
The best way to load the Winchester 50-110 is with BLACK POWDER like it was originally loaded. Use a 30" or so drop tube and trickle enough FG or Cartridge grade powder down it until the case is filled to the level that you can place a flat disk wad made from a paraffin coated milk, juice etc. carton or a Walters wonder wad or thin poster board disk coated with wax on top of the powder and compress the powder down about 1/10 inch and then be able to seat the bullet solid against the wad. Oh! Use a Magnum primer to light all that powder. Use SPG bullet lube or one of the lubes especially made for black powder cartridge bullets. 50% bees wax and 50% olive oil by volume mixed in a double bowler works great also. This will keep the fouling in the bore soft so you can attain accuracy. When you go to shoot the rifle hold on to your socks because it just may knock them off of you.
If you use black powder, be very careful as to how you compress it. Black powder is well known for igniting when you compress it enough. You wouldn't want a pre-mature detonation due to the compression.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Hodgdon makes a black powder substitute called Pyrodex Cartridge for such occasions, and it actually helps with getting better velocity than what black powder can achieve.

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:26 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:55 am
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1Shot wrote:
The best way to load the Winchester 50-110 is with BLACK POWDER like it was originally loaded. Use a 30" or so drop tube and trickle enough FG or Cartridge grade powder down it until the case is filled to the level that you can place a flat disk wad made from a paraffin coated milk, juice etc. carton or a Walters wonder wad or thin poster board disk coated with wax on top of the powder and compress the powder down about 1/10 inch and then be able to seat the bullet solid against the wad. Oh! Use a Magnum primer to light all that powder. Use SPG bullet lube or one of the lubes especially made for black powder cartridge bullets. 50% bees wax and 50% olive oil by volume mixed in a double bowler works great also. This will keep the fouling in the bore soft so you can attain accuracy. When you go to shoot the rifle hold on to your socks because it just may knock them off of you.



HA ! yeah that would do it. I think Cheyenne is approx 5'6" and 120 pounds--that load would get her attention.

Thanks to all who responded, Fotis's link's have helped and loganht1 had a good idea. Hawk has sent along some good info as well

Actually getting it to her will not be as difficult as I first imagined, but like with everything else, everybody involved will have to be paid. It looks like the best way is for it to be purchased by her or in her name, that alone seems to make this whole process a bit easier.

As with many of my bright ideas, the initial idea is always great but getting the idea to actually work always takes a bit more work Ha

Dr Mike----I have told her she has to use it to hunt one of your wood Bison that you folks have up there in God's country


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:04 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 32781
Location: Northern British Columbia
My, but those are huge beasts! I still recall my first. We were hunting grizzly. We have found spoor and a winter kill elk carcass on which a bear had been feeding. We decided that he had dined on the main course first and was now going to the salad bar to cleanse the palate. We were going back to the dining site to sit out the afternoon.

I was winching a Toyota Tundra out of a deep mud hole (The owner had uttered those famous words, "Here, hold my cola and watch this." Well, what did you expect when two Baptist preachers were hunting together?). As I was winching, having attempted to walk on water (which didn't go all that well), I felt the hair on the back of my neck bristling. I'm finely attuned to nature, and when my hair stands on end, I know there must be a problem (either an electrical storm, fear that is about to compel me to perform a ten point carom while bouncing off trees or some such feat). Glancing to my right, I saw a large brown structure standing in the copse of woods beside the mud puddle in which my friend had situated his truck. My mind was screaming "Grizzly!" and my feet were beginning a rather strange movement (Don't let anyone tell you Baptists don't dance. They just need some motivation.). Since the truck was just beginning to move, and Bob was yelling, "Keep it up! We're about out!" I felt compelled to tamp down my fear and stand firm. Edging to my left as far as the cable would allow, I continued to eye the massive brown feature that was moving northward in the woods.

To my relief, as the mountainous brown blob moved between several trees and bushes, it resolved itself into a woods bison. Then, I remembered that it was about time for the rut, and those critters can be quite cantankerous when disturbed. I was definitely hoping that the sound of the truck engine revving wildly and a Baptist preacher shouting at full voice wasn't objectionable to the beast. I did hope that he wasn't an atheist or an agnostic; I had no desire to walk the one hundred kilometers back to civilization.

Since that time, I've seen beaucoup d'bison. The first experience is indelibly etched in my mind. I can testify that when one is on the ground after a successful hunt, the hunter can anticipate a fair amount of work. Yeah, a 50-110 will work just fine on a woods bison (I had to add this in order to stay on topic.).

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:21 am
Posts: 244
I rest my case!

M wife and I both were setting here enjoying a cup of coffee and the Montana air when reading Dr Mike's post.

What a great story. thank you of sharing this with us Dr Mike


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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:58 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
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Location: Northern British Columbia
John, I suspect April is capable of a few tales. The accumulation of memories constitutes a rich treasury for those of advanced age (which, incidentally, arrived far too soon for this old curmudgeon).

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 Post subject: Re: win 1886 50-110
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Unlike modern cartridges the older black powder cartridges not only designate the caliber in their name but also the powder charge so you have a .50 cal bullet being pushed by 110grs of Black Powder but not always as a 38-40 which is reversed.


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