338 Win. Mag 265 Gr. Accubond Long Range load test
- Thread starter Hunter2011
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MtEmilyhunter
Beginner
- Aug 22, 2017
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hse11,
That hits close to home. I ordered a new 338 RUM about 4 months ago thinking the same thing. Just did not think it was possible to get enough juice out of the win mag. Of course the RUM should be good for 2950-3000!
That hits close to home. I ordered a new 338 RUM about 4 months ago thinking the same thing. Just did not think it was possible to get enough juice out of the win mag. Of course the RUM should be good for 2950-3000!
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
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R17 is a game changer in the 338Wm and gives more velocity than you would figure.MtEmilyhunter":1weeo3zg said:
R17 works well in shorter barrels like 24".
jason miller
Handloader
- Sep 4, 2012
- 292
- 0
I cut my barrel back to 22.5" and tried RL17 with 250 Accubonds last year. I loaded 5 cartridges with increasing charges by .5 grain increments. I'd have to go back and look to see exactly what they were, but I think it was 67.0, 67.5, 68.0, 68.5, and 69.0 grains. Velocity did not increase linearly, and basically didn't increase at all from bottom to top. I believe all charges fell in the 2650-2700 fps range. I didn't like the looks of that and assumed I was probably already at max and not going to see any more velocity before I saw a blown primer.
This thread has me wondering if I should re-visit RL17 and the heavies...
This thread has me wondering if I should re-visit RL17 and the heavies...
jason miller
Handloader
- Sep 4, 2012
- 292
- 0
I was wrong- it was:
65 grains- 2592 fps
65.5- 2578
66- 2606
66.5- 2616
67- 2606
My notes show that I also tried RL26 with the 250 AccuBond, and got:
74 grains- 2663
74.5- 2659
75- 2693
75.5- 2699
76- 2717
I wasn't too pleased with those results. It made me abandon the 250 AccuBond.
My buddy had some 300 grain Accubonds that I loaded up 3 of with RL26 for grins,, except I didn't write down the charge because I assumed I would never shoot that combination again. I think I used around 74 grains. They ran 2511, 2484, and 2462 fps. And they shoved my entire being backwards with every trigger pull.(I was lying prone.)
65 grains- 2592 fps
65.5- 2578
66- 2606
66.5- 2616
67- 2606
My notes show that I also tried RL26 with the 250 AccuBond, and got:
74 grains- 2663
74.5- 2659
75- 2693
75.5- 2699
76- 2717
I wasn't too pleased with those results. It made me abandon the 250 AccuBond.
My buddy had some 300 grain Accubonds that I loaded up 3 of with RL26 for grins,, except I didn't write down the charge because I assumed I would never shoot that combination again. I think I used around 74 grains. They ran 2511, 2484, and 2462 fps. And they shoved my entire being backwards with every trigger pull.(I was lying prone.)
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
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Maybe I have a fast barrel but I was comparing the 210gr PT in both and was getting 3020fps with a 24" Ruger factory barrel. Haven't played with the heavies yet since I worked up one load and stuck with it for the season as I was advised to do.
- Thread starter
- #47
Hunter2011
Beginner
- Dec 30, 2016
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Well... I guess we’ll find out how well they shoot out of a 24” Winchester barrel... I’ll hopefully post my results on Christmas Day maybe a lil sooner! If I get up to 2750 that’ll be pushing close/even to 300 RUM energy levels at the muzzle!!!
jason miller
Handloader
- Sep 4, 2012
- 292
- 0
I'd be curious to see what actual pressure testing equipment would tell about some of these loads. But I guess as long as primer pockets are holding up...
SJB358":1zlc1cbp said:
Please don't take offense to this but, how does "Having no issues" and "Not a bit scared" relate to actual velocity changes vs temp change? My understanding (which is not from experience with RL17 as I've avoided it) is that RL17 is temp sensative. Between the muzzle and 300yds, some velocity change probably isn't really noticeable. At 500-600yds, 100fps could be a pretty big deal.
desertcj":ocaoe4oo said:
Totally agree bud. I did a bunch of my load work at 70-80 with the Magnetospeed when working up for the 210 Swift's. Those numbers were virtually identical when I shot 5 rounds during 30 degree temps. They were absolutely A-OK for me to make the same hits out to 500 and 600 yards in the cool weather as I did in the 60-80 degree range earlier in the year.
I won't say 17 is as temp stable as H4350, cause it probably isn't, but in my 338 with my combo is it very good. Could it be entirely different in a 30-06, 270, 25-06 at the same temps, yep, but for me it is great.
I think alot of folks who do alot of testing with their powders and loads at varying temps, and agree at extreme ranges cause it is excellent intel. I am running H1000 in my 7 Mashburn Super and actually saw a larger FPS variance with that load than I saw with 17 in my 338 doing the same work. Even then, it wasn't enough to have to change my dope sheets either, but it was there in that cartridge/bullet/rifle combo. No one will argue that H1000 isn't a great powder and super stable but everytime someone brings up 17, 19, 22 ect they think they are taking their chances with their favorite load and I just haven't seen it. Lot to lot variations are there, and most don't notice them until their favorite load just doesn't shoot the same as the old can of powder did. I think alot of this has to be taken with a grain of salt. If your load is teetering on the edge of accuracy node, the wheels will fall off at temp changes, but if you truly have a good load you've shot numerous times over varying temps and conditions then I'd hunt it.
Not a rant at you at all Desertcj, but some many folks get so caught up in the hype and most rarely shoot to the edge of the envelope to really see where it matters most of the time, including me.
- Thread starter
- #57
Hunter2011
Beginner
- Dec 30, 2016
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So I finally got around to testing the RL17 load. First, it was freezing cold (about 10) (but I kept the ammo warm) and I normally really have a hard time shooting groups when its so cold. Unfortunately I was only able to fire 3 shots before I pulled the plug.
68.5 gr. shot #1-2936 FPS
Shot #2-2930 FPS
Heavy bolt lift and a slight ejector mark. Accuracy was OK
69.0 Shot #1-2778
Heavy bolt lift and ejector mark.
After shooting those I was done going any hotter for safety reasons LOL
This is looking like its gonna be a promising load though. Hopefully I can get to 2800 without any pressure signs.
Just remember folks work up and don't do anything really dumb especially when working with Beta loads such as these.
68.5 gr. shot #1-2936 FPS
Shot #2-2930 FPS
Heavy bolt lift and a slight ejector mark. Accuracy was OK
69.0 Shot #1-2778
Heavy bolt lift and ejector mark.
After shooting those I was done going any hotter for safety reasons LOL
This is looking like its gonna be a promising load though. Hopefully I can get to 2800 without any pressure signs.
Just remember folks work up and don't do anything really dumb especially when working with Beta loads such as these.
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
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desertcj I understand your concern and maybe the Big Marine didn't come across the way he wanted to with his wording so no offense was implied with your question.
I worked with one load to minimize load development before going to MT for my Elk hunt and the powder was RL17 which I used with a 210gr Nosler PT. I was pushing that bullet at 3023fps out of a 24" barrel. Load work up was done between 28*F to 90*F and saw very little variance in velocity. Load was developed at 500ft above sea level.
Where I was hunting ranged from 6200ft to 8200ft above sea level I checked my zero at 6200ft and shot targets from 100yds to 400yds. I had first shot hits on all targets with out changing any scope settings. No pressure signs in my rifle at any temps.
Scotty said it best in that people read more and shoot less believing what they read printed in the magazine rags and on forums instead of testing for them selves.
I get a QL powder run done for a specific bullet and pick the best available powder to me. I then get a QL for that powder and bullet combo ran specific to my rifle brass combo and then load a ladder for the combo 1.5-2grs below max depending on printed estimated velocities by QL. I shoot the ladder and record the velocities and pick out what I think is a node and go from there to work up a accurate load.
I believe Scotty does something very similar since him a Dewey taught me how to work up a new load using QL info.
Before I just grabbed what ever powder bullet I had available and used book published info burning a lot of powder and wasting a lot of bullets to find that magic load and still didn't know the velocity of it or the effects a different lot of powder would do to accuracy. Was I dumb, no, maybe but that is what all the gun mag rags told how it was suppose to be done back in the day and I felt like a mental midget when I started looking at what people here were doing with reloading. I'm well over 60yrs old and learning to reload all over again.
It's great to ask questions because that is the only way we learn.
Didn't mean to steal the post just felt I needed to explain myself.
I worked with one load to minimize load development before going to MT for my Elk hunt and the powder was RL17 which I used with a 210gr Nosler PT. I was pushing that bullet at 3023fps out of a 24" barrel. Load work up was done between 28*F to 90*F and saw very little variance in velocity. Load was developed at 500ft above sea level.
Where I was hunting ranged from 6200ft to 8200ft above sea level I checked my zero at 6200ft and shot targets from 100yds to 400yds. I had first shot hits on all targets with out changing any scope settings. No pressure signs in my rifle at any temps.
Scotty said it best in that people read more and shoot less believing what they read printed in the magazine rags and on forums instead of testing for them selves.
I get a QL powder run done for a specific bullet and pick the best available powder to me. I then get a QL for that powder and bullet combo ran specific to my rifle brass combo and then load a ladder for the combo 1.5-2grs below max depending on printed estimated velocities by QL. I shoot the ladder and record the velocities and pick out what I think is a node and go from there to work up a accurate load.
I believe Scotty does something very similar since him a Dewey taught me how to work up a new load using QL info.
Before I just grabbed what ever powder bullet I had available and used book published info burning a lot of powder and wasting a lot of bullets to find that magic load and still didn't know the velocity of it or the effects a different lot of powder would do to accuracy. Was I dumb, no, maybe but that is what all the gun mag rags told how it was suppose to be done back in the day and I felt like a mental midget when I started looking at what people here were doing with reloading. I'm well over 60yrs old and learning to reload all over again.
It's great to ask questions because that is the only way we learn.
Didn't mean to steal the post just felt I needed to explain myself.
jason miller
Handloader
- Sep 4, 2012
- 292
- 0
You can't get to 2800 without any pressure signs. You already have pressure signs at 2730 fps.(I'm assuming that was a typo and you meant 2730 when you typed 2930)
You're obviously welcome to do as you please, but keep in mind that people smarter than me have said that common pressure signs like heavy bolt lift and ejector marks don't show up until you're significantly past 65,000 psi. It's also been said that working up to heavy bolt lift or ejector marks and then backing off only .5-1 grain probably means that you're still over 65,00 psi. That makes sense, since a 1 grain reduction isn't much compared to the 69 grains you're burning.
If I had to guess, I would wager $100 that you're over 75,000 psi at the top load you've tested so far. I'd also bet that RL26 will give you 50 fps or more for the same pressure vs RL17. If it were my rifle, I'd back those loads down to 2650 with RL17 or 2700 with RL26 and see how long the primer pockets last.
You're obviously welcome to do as you please, but keep in mind that people smarter than me have said that common pressure signs like heavy bolt lift and ejector marks don't show up until you're significantly past 65,000 psi. It's also been said that working up to heavy bolt lift or ejector marks and then backing off only .5-1 grain probably means that you're still over 65,00 psi. That makes sense, since a 1 grain reduction isn't much compared to the 69 grains you're burning.
If I had to guess, I would wager $100 that you're over 75,000 psi at the top load you've tested so far. I'd also bet that RL26 will give you 50 fps or more for the same pressure vs RL17. If it were my rifle, I'd back those loads down to 2650 with RL17 or 2700 with RL26 and see how long the primer pockets last.
- Thread starter
- #60
Hunter2011
Beginner
- Dec 30, 2016
- 28
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Nope 2936 is what I ment. I'm almost positive I can get down to 2800 safely. RL-26's burn rate is most likely too slow for this 338WM load. I'll come back next summer when its warmer and work up again though.
