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 Post subject: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am
Posts: 60
Hey guys, wondering how many reloads roughly you can get out of Norma brass when full length sizing? I run a pretty mellow load in my 25-06 but I don’t want to be out shooting and get a case head separation.


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
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Location: Northern British Columbia
If you anneal, it will withstand an amazing number of reloads. I routinely run up to seven loads with Norma brass in my 300 and 270 WSM cartridges w/o annealing.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am
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And full length sizing?


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
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Location: Northern British Columbia
mccraggen wrote:
And full length sizing?


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Yup.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
FL sizing doesn’t hurt the brass as much as some think. I FL size EVERY bottle neck case I own. But I’m only touching the shoulder for about .001-.002 bump at most. I can’t wear out a case and I haven’t had a case head break off in a LONG time.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am
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Location: Delta Junction, AK
With full length sizing my .300WSM is good for at least five. That's when I retire them, I figure brass isn't that expensive.

My 6.5CM is good for 10 at last count and still has some useful life left although I get kinda iffy about it. My 270 is likely somewhere in between depending on the load. I tend to load it pretty moderate. My 308 target loads are still looking good and I'll retire them out of guilt.

I don't neck size anything...I'm too paranoid of feed failures.


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am
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I just go up till the shell holder touches the die


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Location: East Coast
mccraggen wrote:
I just go up till the shell holder touches the die


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I use a feeler gauge and try to keep .010" clearance between the base of my die and the shell holder. I do believe the manufactures instruction says to screw them down till they touch the shell holder and then back the die off a 1/4 turn and set the lock ring to maintain proper clearance.


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am
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Why does it matter if it’s all the way up, can only go so far into the die


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
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truck driver wrote:
mccraggen wrote:
I just go up till the shell holder touches the die


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I use a feeler gauge and try to keep .010" clearance between the base of my die and the shell holder. I do believe the manufactures instruction says to screw them down till they touch the shell holder and then back the die off a 1/4 turn and set the lock ring to maintain proper clearance.


Do you bump the shoulders back a couple thousands or three?

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:36 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 1476
Location: center of Pa
the difference I see between mild loads , and hot loads are primer pocket life . I full length size every time , with my die adjusted to bump the shoulder back about .002 or .003 " and get good brass life . I use the redding competition shell holder sets . if you buy a couple tools and learn how to adjust your full length sizing die you will be surprised how long brass will last . the guys on here can talk you through how to do this , or answer any question you might have on the video . this guy has excellent videos showing how it's done . second video down on the right is brass sizing . they are all worth watching .


https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos


https://www.redding-reloading.com/onlin ... older-sets


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:37 am 
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Location: East Coast
TackDriver284 wrote:
truck driver wrote:
mccraggen wrote:
I just go up till the shell holder touches the die


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I use a feeler gauge and try to keep .010" clearance between the base of my die and the shell holder. I do believe the manufactures instruction says to screw them down till they touch the shell holder and then back the die off a 1/4 turn and set the lock ring to maintain proper clearance.


Do you bump the shoulders back a couple thousands or three?
Funny I have never measured the shoulders but keep an eye on how far the neck is sized in my dies an try to keep the die set were it sizes to the base of the neck. So I guess in reality the answer to your question is yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 29132
Location: Northern Virginia
jimbires wrote:
the difference I see between mild loads , and hot loads are primer pocket life . I full length size every time , with my die adjusted to bump the shoulder back about .002 or .003 " and get good brass life . I use the redding competition shell holder sets . if you buy a couple tools and learn how to adjust your full length sizing die you will be surprised how long brass will last . the guys on here can talk you through how to do this , or answer any question you might have on the video . this guy has excellent videos showing how it's done . second video down on the right is brass sizing . they are all worth watching .


https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos


https://www.redding-reloading.com/onlin ... older-sets


Without a danged doubt Jim. Once I have a FL die set for a specific rifle it NEVER gets touched again. .0015/.003 works for just about all of them. .0015/.002 for 06 and 308 based stuff, .003 for the WSM's and thick cases. Not an exact science on my part but CHS's are a thing of the past.

I use the Hornady LNL gauge system that everyone uses to measure BTO to take the measurement. Since it really doesn't matter what the measurement is since it is a fake number that doesn't mean anything I take that number as 1.234 from the case and then size it down till I get about 1.232" or so, give or take a thou or two depending on the chambering. Most of the time a .358 collet will fit over most cases till you get up in the 338 or larger then I use a .375 or .416 collet.. It works pretty well. I have the Larry Will's digital gauge but I always forget to the turn the darned thing off and smoke the battery :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:29 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 1476
Location: center of Pa
SJB358 wrote:
jimbires wrote:
the difference I see between mild loads , and hot loads are primer pocket life . I full length size every time , with my die adjusted to bump the shoulder back about .002 or .003 " and get good brass life . I use the redding competition shell holder sets . if you buy a couple tools and learn how to adjust your full length sizing die you will be surprised how long brass will last . the guys on here can talk you through how to do this , or answer any question you might have on the video . this guy has excellent videos showing how it's done . second video down on the right is brass sizing . they are all worth watching .


https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos


https://www.redding-reloading.com/onlin ... older-sets


Without a danged doubt Jim. Once I have a FL die set for a specific rifle it NEVER gets touched again. .0015/.003 works for just about all of them. .0015/.002 for 06 and 308 based stuff, .003 for the WSM's and thick cases. Not an exact science on my part but CHS's are a thing of the past.

I use the Hornady LNL gauge system that everyone uses to measure BTO to take the measurement. Since it really doesn't matter what the measurement is since it is a fake number that doesn't mean anything I take that number as 1.234 from the case and then size it down till I get about 1.232" or so, give or take a thou or two depending on the chambering. Most of the time a .358 collet will fit over most cases till you get up in the 338 or larger then I use a .375 or .416 collet.. It works pretty well. I have the Larry Will's digital gauge but I always forget to the turn the darned thing off and smoke the battery :lol:




your right Scotty , the case length measurement is only important to you and your tool , it means nothing to anyone else . you can use your caliper with a empty pistol brass case as a bushing that sits on your case shoulder . just anything that sets in about the middle of the shoulder will work . the one guy I was getting started in reloading just couldn't grasp the shoulder measurement idea . he was trying to get it to correspond with case drawings . how I finally got him to understand was, we measured his fired cartridge length to the shoulder , and set the caliper to zero . then we sized brass until we got a -.002" . getting rid of all the numbers made it easy for him to understand . he laughs about it now .


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:14 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am
Posts: 60
I tried the paper clip technique on my 4x tired cases and didn’t notice any ridges forming, is it something that’s really hard to detect?


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:45 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1125
truck driver wrote:
TackDriver284 wrote:
truck driver wrote:
mccraggen wrote:
I just go up till the shell holder touches the die


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use a feeler gauge and try to keep .010" clearance between the base of my die and the shell holder. I do believe the manufactures instruction says to screw them down till they touch the shell holder and then back the die off a 1/4 turn and set the lock ring to maintain proper clearance.


Do you bump the shoulders back a couple thousands or three?
Funny I have never measured the shoulders but keep an eye on how far the neck is sized in my dies an try to keep the die set were it sizes to the base of the neck. So I guess in reality the answer to your question is yes.


To be honest with you, all my full size dies that are not touching the shellholder never bumped any shoulders, so I had to screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder and a little cam over to start bumping shoulders.

To do this, there needs to be a little cam over to bump the shoulders.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:15 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:59 pm
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I follow the same process as truck driver, I watch the lube on the neck to see where I am at.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:26 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:12 am
Posts: 748
I would think there is no straight forward answer. Every chamber is different so the amount of stretch varies from gun to gun. I have loaded for quite a few guns over the years. Most of my sizing dies don’t touch the shell holder and the brass fits easily in the chambers. The one exception is my 257 Roberts that apparently has a tight chamber.
I haven’t tried annealing often enough to determine if it extends case life, (from what I’ve read, I’m sure it does) but it just seems easier to buy new brass. And I don’t think annealing has much affect on the part of the case that separates in most instances as the heat is removed prior to reaching that point.
Most of my brass isn’t beyond four cycles but I have noticed with some, (mostly for my 264 Mag) I get cracks in the neck prior to showing signs of impending case separation. Annealing may be worth while to extend case life in this instance.





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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:42 am
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Location: United Kingdom
SJB358 wrote:
FL sizing doesn’t hurt the brass as much as some think. I FL size EVERY bottle neck case I own. But I’m only touching the shoulder for about .001-.002 bump at most. I can’t wear out a case and I haven’t had a case head break off in a LONG time.


Spot on. Correctly done and utilising an annealing regime, Norma brass lasts through an amazing number of reloads.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:46 pm 
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One time less than this.... :)
Image

Sorry not to be a smart @$$.But I happen to have this pic from a recent trip to the range with Dads 7Mag. He was notorious for "USING UP" his brass. I do not recommend it. No idea how many times these were shot but I can guarantee you I pulled the bullets on the rest of the box!CL

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
The old way of sizing till a fired case would just cause some resistance as the bolt was turned into battery wasn’t horrible either but after learning to measure headspace it could be .005 or nothing depending on the dies, press, chamber.

Mccragen, it takes a little feel to feel the little dip or valley near the case head from the inside. Sometimes cutting a case in half will provide you with a picture you’re looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
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I do like Scotty does......use about an inch long heavy steel spacer that I robbed out of an old dish network receiver long ago, it's the right size and chamfer to sit against the shoulders of 6mm, 06, 8x57 ect type cases. The length you come up with doesn't matter, it's just having an accurate number to compare against when setting your die. .002-.003 bump back is what I shoot for. Where that requires the die to be set can vary quite a bit between rifles.

I've never tried it, but I'm sure if you walked into a hardware store and looked at about a 3/8 copper bushing, you'd find it sits up against the shoulder of a lot of standard cartridges.


For bigger case necks like 35 caliber, I use a 45 auto case that I lightly chamferred the inside with a deburring tool to give it an angled edge to sit against the shoulder. How you get there really doesn't matter, what matters is having something that gives you an accurate length before and after.


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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:18 am 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:05 am
Posts: 580
I for the first time set the die up last night .010 from the base of shell holder to case size last night.
I have in the past allways had it touching like RCBS says for full length resizing.


Last edited by 1100 Remington Man on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brass life when full length sizing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:09 am 
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Head space sizing will likely help delay case head separation.
Annealing not so much as you don't anneal down there.

I feel (opinion :) ) that squeezing the neck down in a full length die then drawing the mandrel back out exercises the neck area more than anywhere else on the case. Neck lube helps. This is where annealing will extend case life. The full length die also seems more apt to form the 'donut' than Body dies and Collet neck sizing :)


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