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 Post subject: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1235
Finally was able to get out to the range and try those 147's in the Creedmoor with the 26 inch barrel. Results on ladder test at 300 yards and 5 mph variable wind.
No heavy bolt or flattened primers and loads were from 40.5 to 42.9 grains of H-4350 in .3 increments. Would the node be between #6 and #7 since there is a flat spot there? 6 and 7 looks flat on paper. Any suggestions?

Grains - FPS
1.) 40.5 - 2625
2.) 40.8 - 2658
3.) 41.1 - 2674
4.) 41.4 - 2697
5.) 41.7 - 2728
6.) 42.0 - 2758
7.) 42.3 - 2751
8.) 42.6 - 2770
9.) 42.9 - 2786

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 29310
Location: Northern Virginia
That’d be where I’d start Mark. Those are some easy Bullets to get shooting and have yet to let me down.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:41 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Wet Side of Washington State
It's a good place to start. When I start shooting more than one shot at each charge in the ladder I sometimes get slightly different data. It's one of the limitations of the ladder method - it doesn't take into account Es at each charge.


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:39 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: center of Pa
Mark , 6 and 7 look like a good place to start looking . did you do a seating depth test first ?


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:58 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
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jimbires wrote:
Mark , 6 and 7 look like a good place to start looking . did you do a seating depth test first ?


Ooops, :shock: I forgot to do that seating depth first as you advised me to try. I loaded it to magazine length with about .030" clearance inside the magazine and did the ladder. The OAL was too long to fit with .005" off the lands.

I am on the same page with you all on #6 and # 7. Thanks fellas.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:13 pm
Posts: 1579
Location: center of Pa
Mark , lets be crazy here for a minute with an exaggeration . lets say your chosen COAL is only capable of shooting 3 MOA . you're only putting one shot on target at each given powder charge . your watching for vertical alignment , along with a narrow velocity spread . with 3 moa accuracy , that hole could be anywhere within 3 inches @ 100 yards . so getting a few holes to align vertically isn't going to tell the true accuracy story with a 3 inch tolerance . now if you did a seating depth test first at minimum powder charge ,so there's no powder influence , and found a 0.5 moa group to use for your powder ladder . I think your holes in the target would tell a much better tale of what's going on . this way of thinking is what got me doing seating first . I hope I cleared this up and not muddied it up more . any questions , just ask . Jim


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1235
After picking #6, 7 and 8 to try for 3 round groups, one of the groups was shooting about half inch group at 200 yards while the others sucked. It was a 42.2 grain charge of H4350 Retested today with seating depths of .005" increments deeper but I did not like the groups. By the way, each bullet i seated has the same pressure but snug and brass has been annealed. I saw rings on each bullet. Is it true that seating those 147's has been denting / deforming the lead because the jacket is so thin? Could be the issues I am having? I am using .001" ( .263') under bullet diameter mandrel with the bushing full sizer button removed.
My COAL when it shot last week was 2.884" ( ogive 2.235') , COAL kissing the lands is 2.939" ( 2,292" ) and mag length is 2.900" and tried 3 groups each .005" deeper and NADA. Should I go deeper down to 2.800" COAL? Any suggestions? I am back to square one.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 29310
Location: Northern Virginia
I seat them .005” off the lands. They seem to work well there. I think my COAL is 2.915” .005” off the lands.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1235
SJB358 wrote:
I seat them .005” off the lands. They seem to work well there. I think my COAL is 2.915” .005” off the lands.



Only issue it won't fit the mag if i were to use it for hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 29310
Location: Northern Virginia
TackDriver284 wrote:
SJB358 wrote:
I seat them .005” off the lands. They seem to work well there. I think my COAL is 2.915” .005” off the lands.



Only issue it won't fit the mag if i were to use it for hunting.


Get a longer mag Mark! Jeeze, don’t make me think of everything!

Kidding, but can it be inletted fot PTG bottom metal and then use AICS mags? Gives you a bunch more space to work with.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
TD284, not to seek to contradict anyone above, but why not just stick with your 42.2g load which you loaded to mag length initially? Sounds like it showed some potential.

Load up enough to shoot about 5 groups at 100y (too many variables at 200y for seeking a group-size test IMO) and concentrate on technique and making your best shots. Then you’ll have a true indication of whether the combo of load and rifle are what you want.

42-ish grains seems to be about right for pressure.

Hunting rounds are useless unless they fit in a magazine.

Sometimes I think these ladder tests cause more questions than they provide answers. But good for getting a gauge on pressures I believe.

Good luck with the Creedmoor!


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:37 pm
Posts: 954
IME - if you repeat the exact same ladder test twice you would get different results and come to a different conclusion. Try it and see if the same two consecutive charges produce the closest impacts.


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:25 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Charlie-NY wrote:
IME - if you repeat the exact same ladder test twice you would get different results and come to a different conclusion. Try it and see if the same two consecutive charges produce the closest impacts.


That makes a good deal of sense to try.


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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:06 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1235
Charlie-NY wrote:
IME - if you repeat the exact same ladder test twice you would get different results and come to a different conclusion. Try it and see if the same two consecutive charges produce the closest impacts.


I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: 147 ELD-M ladder test / 6.5 Creedmoor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
As I alluded above, I’m not really a fan of these ladder tests, but if you shot say, three shot groups, with the same charge weight for all three shots, in ascending charge weights for each group, on different targets, THEN overlaid the targets to see if there is a pattern - wouldn’t that give you a whole lot more data?

Personally I just load up a couple / few different charge weights with the same bullet and bang a few groups in and see what happens. A bit hit and miss but something is always learned!


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