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 Post subject: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1371
Headed out of town to run some errands and thought about the powder shortages on the way,,,something bugged me to give a gun shop a call which was an hour away. I asked if they had any Varget, H4350, H1000 or H4831SC laying around to grab and they said they were out and i asked what they do have and the response was 9 pounds of IMR 4451 Enduron and 5 pounds of IMR 4831 and I requested they hold them for me till I got there. Since the powder shortages are everywhere, I decided to grab all those powders and bring them home.
I never used IMR 4451 or the IMR 4831 and does anyone have any success with these two powders and for what caliber?

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:23 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 12:42 am
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Location: Germany, Lower Saxony
Well they are listed for 30-06 for example.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:19 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
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Location: Washington State
I seem to have read that 4451 does well in the 30-06, and 4831 has been around for about forever. It's a well-proven powder that I've used in several different rifle cartridges.

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:29 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
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I’ve used IMR 4831 in many cartridges.
22-250, 243, 3006, 300WSM.

Nice powder.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:19 am 

Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 7:38 pm
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Haven't used it yet, but I've got a couple pounds of 4451 set aside for my 6.5 Creed. By all reports, it's a very good powder for that caliber.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:53 pm
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IMR 4451 is in the same burn rate range as H4350, and IMR 4831 is in the range of H4831 and H4831SC.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:58 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:59 pm
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Been using H-4831 for decades, IMR is similar. 4451 has a similar burn rate as H-4350

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:00 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:59 pm
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Too funny same post two min apart, :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:13 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
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I read that IMR 4451 has almost the same burn rate as H4350 which I use for my 6.5 Creedmoor. Deciding to see if the IMR 4451 will work for the 6.5 x 284 that come in a few months since I barely have 3 pounds left of H4831SC which worked so well for the older 6.5 x 284. I see on the Nosler Reloading data that it does not show 4451 for the 140 grain bullets, but shows H414 and H4831, now my question is since H414 is faster than the IMR 4451 and H4831 is slower than IMR 4451, so does that mean that I can experiment with 4451 for the 6.5 x 284 even though 4451 powder is not listed in the manual for that caliber? I'm looking at the Burn rates as I am typing this up.

The IMR 4831 is the same burn rate as H4831SC, I could try that in the 6.5 x 284 as well. IMR 4831 is the longer grain version, hopefully have room in the 284 case using bullets from 140 to 156 grains since its a 7.5 twist.

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:21 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:43 am
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I use IMR 4451 in my grandson's 260 Rem giving MOA or better groups. Have not tried it in any other calibers yet. IMR 4831 has proven to be a winner in the 270 Win and 7mm Rem Mag plus the 243 Win. Dan.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:18 am
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Location: Western NY
IMR 4451 has worked well for me in the 3-06 with 180 grain bullets. Good accuracy and reasonable velocity. Good luck.. Rol

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:01 am 

Joined: Wed May 13, 2020 5:57 pm
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I have had great results with 4451 in 30-06 with 165 gr bullets, 2925 velocity with Single digit SD/ES and 1/2 moa groups. Also had luck with 4451 in the 270. I have successfully used IMR 4831 in 243, 270 and 7 mag. Speeds with 4831 have not been top notch but accuracy has been.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:43 am 
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Location: Cheyenne, WY
IMR 4451 rox as all enduron powders.

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:42 pm
Posts: 334
Location: MI
TackDriver284 wrote:
Deciding to see if the IMR 4451 will work for the 6.5 x 284...

The IMR 4831 is the same burn rate as H4831SC, I could try that in the 6.5 x 284 as well. IMR 4831 is the longer grain version, hopefully have room in the 284 case using bullets from 140 to 156 grains since its a 7.5 twist.


Both powders should work well in the 6.5 x 284 - Hodgdon lists a good number of loads with both - https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data ... 1612808627.

I do see reduced copper fouling with IMR 4451 and some bullets but not others. I'm using somewhere around 42-43 grains in the 6.5 Creed using 130 grain Game Changer bullets and copper fouling is very mild. It does seem to burn a little dirty though, might be the copper being encapsulated by the carbon / tin mix.

I find IMR 4831 to be a bit faster in burn rate and speed than H4831 or H4831sc. I've been moving away from it and towards H4831sc when shooting heavier bullets and IMR 4451 for the lighter and midweight bullets. In the 280 Rem / AI it does very well with 140-154 grain bullets and I've loaded 175 grain NP which is a good combo. I've used it in the 30-06, but it has been replaced by IMR 4451.

Hodgdon likewise lists 6.5 x 284 loads with IMR 4831 and they show it as a faster burning powder. With a 142 grain they show 46.2 grains of IMR 4831 at 2,692 fps and 50.3 grains of H4831 at 2714 fps. With a 140 grain bullet they show 1.7 grains less IMR 4831 for about 40 fps gain over H4831sc.


Last edited by Nimrod84 on Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:49 pm
Posts: 54
IMR 4831 is one of my favorite powders for the 7mm Rem Mag.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:07 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Southwest WA Coast
Hope you meant you bought each of them, not all they had. That would be why we are having a shortage of powder.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:59 pm 

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 363
Location: SW Idaho
IMR4831 is NOT a longer grain version of H4831. It s burn rate is faster. It lies between the 4350 and H4831 powders. As others have said it is an excellent powder in a number of cartridges from 22-250 heavy bullets to 300 Win Mag. I ve even had success with it in the 338 WM with heavy bullets and the 375 UM !!

Good score on both those powders !


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 1371
frankm wrote:
Good score on both those powders !

Thank you.
I meant I used the H4831SC for the 6.5 x 284, and the smaller grains gives room in the 284 case, I havent opened the IMR 4831 to see if the grains are the same size as the H4831SC or a tad longer, case fill was my concern, but I'll grab a case tomorrow and fill one up with a max dose of IMR 4831 and see what % fill I'll have.

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:14 am
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Location: Columbia Highlands
Imr 4831 best accuracy in my 25-06 with 100 grain BT's

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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 pm 
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Location: South Eastern West Virginia
Ive shot 4451 in the 6.5creed and my 7x57 and both loadings performed great. I did NOT see any evidence of copper eliminating from the 4451 but you may or may not in your rifles.

4831 has been good to me in a 270 and Ive also used it for 140 to 150gr bullets in my 280 Ackley.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:12 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:42 pm
Posts: 334
Location: MI
One other note on IMR 4831. It isn't as temperature insenstive as H4831sc, Varget, H4350 or the Enduron powders like IMR 4451. I'll see pressure signs with IMR 4831 in my 280's if I workup in 40F degree weather and shoot at 85-90F+. Low node can be your friend with the powder. In the 280's I like to be about 0.5-1 grain off of max in cooler weather, just in case I'm shooting in that upper temp range.

IMR 4451 seems to be pretty temp stable in the 30-06 and the 6.5 Creed. H4831sc and Varget are a little better on holding dope at longer ranges with temp swings but not by much.


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 Post subject: Re: IMR 4451 and IMR 4831
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:13 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:58 am
Posts: 29
My sons 325WSM runs well on 4451 with 200 gr NPs. While my 325 seems to prefer H4831 with same bullet. I don't remember charges off hand but both are quite mild.

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