7.62x39 and H110

I saw a post about using H110 in a 7.62x39 cartridge and wondered if anyone had tried it.
Here is a post in a thread on that subject..
(Load data from Guns and Ammo mag.)

I am wondering if a safe load could be developed using a 150gr bullet.

I've tried H4198 but the velocity was below 1800fps even with compressed loads; I'm hoping to get 2000fps.

I have some Hornady 123gr .310 bullets; I'm wondering if I should try those first, in an attempt to better anticipate overpressure.

[edit]
I'm using an AK with a 16 inch barrel.
[/edit]

Here's a QL projection with FMJ. It looks like a pretty touchy cartridge.

Cartridge : 7.62 x 39 (M43) Russ.
Bullet : .310, 123, Hornady FMJ 3147
Useable Case Capaci: 31.752 grain H2O = 2.062 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.190 inch = 55.63 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 65 20.40 1994 1086 28750 5352 96.9 1.130
-18.0 67 20.91 2037 1133 30453 5479 97.5 1.102
-16.0 68 21.42 2079 1180 32244 5600 98.1 1.076
-14.0 70 21.93 2121 1228 34128 5714 98.6 1.051
-12.0 71 22.44 2162 1277 36108 5822 99.0 1.027
-10.0 73 22.95 2203 1326 38189 5922 99.4 1.001
-08.0 75 23.46 2244 1375 40378 6015 99.6 0.975
-06.0 76 23.97 2284 1424 42678 6100 99.8 0.951
-04.0 78 24.48 2323 1474 45096 6178 100.0 0.927 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 80 24.99 2362 1524 47639 6247 100.0 0.905 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 81 25.50 2401 1574 50314 6311 100.0 0.883 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 83 26.01 2439 1625 53128 6374 100.0 0.862 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 84 26.52 2477 1675 56089 6436 100.0 0.842 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 86 27.03 2514 1726 59206 6496 100.0 0.822 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 88 27.54 2551 1777 62488 6555 100.0 0.804 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 89 28.05 2587 1828 65947 6613 100.0 0.786 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 81 25.50 2474 1672 58809 6088 100.0 0.828 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 81 25.50 2291 1433 41877 6464 98.3 0.957

150 grain Speers project above 2000 fps.

Cartridge : 7.62 x 39 (M43) Russ.
Bullet : .311, 150, Speer SP 2217
Useable Case Capaci: 28.681 grain H2O = 1.862 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.190 inch = 55.63 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4198

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 19.92 1730 997 28265 4646 84.7 1.233
-18.0 82 20.42 1770 1043 29995 4796 85.9 1.202
-16.0 84 20.92 1810 1091 31811 4944 87.0 1.172
-14.0 86 21.41 1849 1139 33719 5090 88.1 1.143
-12.0 88 21.91 1889 1189 35738 5233 89.1 1.114
-10.0 90 22.41 1929 1240 37878 5372 90.1 1.085
-08.0 92 22.91 1969 1291 40148 5508 91.1 1.057
-06.0 94 23.41 2009 1344 42557 5640 92.0 1.030
-04.0 96 23.90 2049 1398 45113 5768 92.8 1.003 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 98 24.40 2088 1453 47828 5892 93.7 0.977 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 24.90 2128 1509 50712 6011 94.4 0.953 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 102 25.40 2168 1565 53778 6124 95.2 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 25.90 2208 1623 57041 6232 95.8 0.906 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 26.39 2247 1682 60517 6334 96.5 0.883 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 26.89 2287 1742 64221 6430 97.0 0.862 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 27.39 2326 1802 68175 6519 97.6 0.841 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 24.90 2226 1650 58960 6082 98.6 0.893 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 24.90 2006 1340 42751 5716 87.5 1.028

There are a few other powders that may get you close.

Cartridge : 7.62 x 39 (M43) Russ.
Bullet : .311, 150, Speer SP 2217
Useable Case Capaci: 28.681 grain H2O = 1.862 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.190 inch = 55.63 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 50000 psi, or 344 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Accurate 2460 107.8 30.6 1.98 2184 90.8 50000 6770 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 107.8 30.6 1.98 2184 90.8 50000 6770 0.958 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 110.0 27.6 1.79 2119 91.6 45101 6620 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 110.0 31.2 2.02 2096 81.6 46624 6385 0.986 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 110.0 30.0 1.94 2080 88.2 40190 6675 1.035
Lovex D073.6 110.0 30.0 1.94 2080 88.2 40190 6675 1.035
Accurate 2495 110.0 27.5 1.78 2006 91.2 32810 6705 1.134
Hodgdon H380 110.0 29.7 1.93 1960 77.1 36841 6069 1.087

Thank you very much DrMike! I'll make sure to report back with my results.

I've tried it with the 125gr NBT, but it wouldn't group worth a darn. I had to switch to a slower powder.....just don't remember which one at the moment.

Maybe LilGun, or IMR 4198?

If H110 doesn't work, I'm planning on getting some H4227 or AA1680... but I have high hopes for this powder.

*crosses fingers*

Thanks for the input!

1680 has a good reputation is that cartridge.
I belive it's very similar to the powder the soviets use.
My best luck was with WC844, which has a burn rate similar to H335.

I tried a ladder test today and my results weren't bad.

My first 3 cartridges were loaded from 19.2-19.6 grains, their POIs were sub-moa at 200 yards with a velocity of 1927, 1957 and 1956fps. So I'm going to test that node with a charge weight of 19.4.
Here is what a case head looks like with that charge weight.


As the ladder progressed I started getting an impression of the bolt face; that was 20.6gr.

(I had reloaded it before I remembered to get a picture.) But the primers looked just like the one above.

It was 32ºF when I shot the ladder test; I'm thinking I might get overpressure in the summer. I've never noticed a change with my 357 from winter to summer so maybe I'm wrong.

I'm close to the velocity I wanted so I'm pretty well satisfied. I'll report back with the group I get.

Again, thanks for your help!

It would appear that you have matters well in hand. Your results certainly suggest that you've found a node.

Well... I got a 3 inch group at 200 yards but the POI had shifted to the left. I'm pretty sure it was because I was shooting at dawn and the front sight had glare making it a bit hard to line up properly. As the day progressed the POI ended-up centered but I'm still not sure there isn't a load issue...

I'm going to test a trusted load at dawn this morning to see if I have those same issues.

Thanks again!

I think the load was at fault, and I'm pretty sure the POI shift had to do with temperature and a side to side vibration. I took some shots at 350 yards this morning with my trusted load, and both shots hit a bit right, (I'd expect that from spin drift.)

2 Shots With AK-47 at 350 Yards

That is with the Hornady 123gr load I developed using H4198, which travels at 2100fps. I've only shot that load at that distance a few times so I'm still getting my POI height figured out. The hits seem to have been about 3 or so inches apart.

I read your very old posts about reloading H110 in 7.62x39 and am interested in your experience, and if you used a AK or AR rifle.

My QuickLoad shows it will be an excellent powder choice. Especially in my AR 7.62x39 pistol with 11.5 inch barrel - highest velocities and should be no excessive flash because all the powder burns.

My Lapua Brass is 34.2 grams of water capacity.
Hornady 308 GMX 110gr 30191 bullet
OAL=2.200 barrel=11.5
21.5gr of H110 with 85.1% case filled
2158fps 43453psi 7838psi 96.6% burned

Most accurate load I have ever found for the 7.62x39 out of 3 different SKS rifles is Lapua case, Rem. 9 1/2 primer, 29 grs H322, Hornady 123 SP .310 diameter bullet and I use a Lee Factory Crimp die and crimp in the cannelure. This is a max load according to Hodgdon data but the reason is you can't get any more powder in the case and be able to seat a bullet. It helps if you tap the case on side lightly to settle the powder some because it is a case full. For some reason I did not right down the velocity in my loading book but if my memory is correct I think it was around 2300 fps out of the SKSs. It kills deer out to 50 yards really well which is as far as I have shot a few deer with it hunting down in the swamps of NC.

AA 1680 brother!

I was hoping to hear from people using H110 in 7.62x39 to hear if they had any problems, before ordering the H110 powder.

I have read that some people using H110 in 300 blackout claim that the velocity is lower during the winter.

Well, today I tried reloading the Hornady GMX 308 110gr bullet into 7.62x39

Trying to seat the bullet to somewhere between 2.200 and 2.226 and the bullet just falls into the case.

Seems the shape of the bullet is such that seating it that far into the brass, that the case mouth is at the tapering down shape of the bullet and can't be seated or crimped into place.

Disappointing.

Depending on your sizing die , Hornady supplies 2 expanders .308 and .310. My guess your make of dies is using .310. That is why you are getting low neck tension.

I’ve got a CZ 527 American that‘s chambered in 7.62x39. Really nice little rifle. Just got a set of Lee dies with both expander balls .308 & .310. CZ says the barrel is .310 diameter. I’ve got new Lapua brass with Speer .310 123gn gold dot hps. Looking at data I’ve decided to go with 21.5 grains of H110 and a CCI large military primer. Does this set off any bells or whistles to anyone? I have lots of experience with .308 but this is the first time I’m loading 7.62x39. Any advice with this cartridge would be greatly appreciated!