"All around" 308 bullet?

Excuse me as I'm new to the rifle, and reloading.

I have a 308 that I want to use as a "scout" type rifle. It will be used at the cabin for wolf, and black bear protection, as well as possible future hunting, and of course practice at the range.

Just as a scout rifle doesn't have to be the best at anything, but reasonably good at everything I'm wondering if there is a bullet that would fit the bill?

My rifle has shot both the 150 and 180 partitions in the federal vital shock ammo.
Both were resonably accurate, though I preferred the recoil of the 150.

Is the Partition from 150 to 180 adequate for my needs?

I'm also looking at the accubonds to,see if they shoot better.

168 hpbt is pretty good all around


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The 150 Partition should be just fine for a wolf and medium black bear.... Anything bigger than medium in a black bear I would want a 180. Leave the 168 hpbt for paperpunching.

Combat Infidel":6unvnvuk said:

168 hpbt is pretty good all around


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Probably the best answer you'll get is above.


I've owned one 308 and ran 150 gr. bullets through it for deer. If I was going to use it for a general purpose/black bear protection the 165 grain PT would be on my short list. You ought to be able to get right at or close to 2800 fps and it would be enough bullet for almost anything.


chs

Nan_wpg

Welcome to the forum.
The 165 gr PT from your 308 Win is tough to beat.
FWIW, I killed my first black bear with a 150 gr PT from a 30-06. It took out the shoulders and exited the bear.

JD338

And this is where I get confused:

The 150 is faster than the 165 and 180, but it also has less SD.

Whats most important (other than obviously accuracy and placement) fps, or SD?

If I understand correctly the Partition just needs 1800 fps as a minimum.

Then I would be better off with a 180 Partition right?

Nan_wpg":2h2wruh0 said:

And this is where I get confused:

The 150 is faster than the 165 and 180, but it also has less SD.

Whats most important (other than obviously accuracy and placement) fps, or SD?

If I understand correctly the Partition just needs 1800 fps as a minimum.

Then I would be better off with a 180 Partition right?

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Don't get hung up on SD. Its just a value based on the bullet's weight to its diameter. Higher SD bullets tend to penetrate deeper BUT bullet design has everything to do with that.
The Partition design is such that the front core expands while the rear core remains intact to retain weight and enhance penetration.

The .308 cal 165 gr PT offers a good balance of speed and weight to shoot relatively flat, hit hard and penetrate deep, even on quartering shots through big shoulder bones.

Hope this helps.

JD338

Definitely helps!

So, I have all the stuff, and know what to do, but I don't know what to do, lol

Clean brass, resize (.001-.002 bump only), trim, lube, charge, and seat.

Nosler,says to play around with the seating depth, but I've also been told to not worry about it and stick with the oal in the manual. Different seating is for bench resters.

Also, when "working up" my loads, starting with the lowest, what exactly is it I'm looking for, or trying to achieve?

All the manuals tell you what to do,in terms of each step , but very little of "the big picture" if that makes any sense .

Also would I need a chronograph? If it will be helpful I,have no problem spending. If it's a waste I'll just buy more bullets and shoot even more.

Thanks

In my opinion S.D. helps in many cases but is not the be-all/end-all.

Personally, I like bullets a little on the heavy side for caliber. Or better said, better to be a tad heavy than light. Higher S.D. offers more momentum which will aid in a bullet retaining speed and will help penetration, to a point. You should also consider matching the bullet to the job and that is where bullet design comes in. In an ideal world (in my world) a bullet expands well yet retains enough speed to still exit. Too much expansion too quickly and no exit, perhaps exploding before hitting the vitals; too little expansion provides fantastic penetration yet, not much disruption or wound channel. Both extremes are not favorable for me.

For the animals you described it would appear to me that you should consider a bullet that expands well while retaining enough mass to continue to push through. And since you mentioned "black bear protection" that could be up to 500 lbs. of animal.

For the .308 the 165 grain PT really shines for those reasons.

I will try to answer your questions...

Nosler,says to play around with the seating depth, but I've also been told to not worry about it and stick with the oal in the manual. Different seating is for bench resters.

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- Adjusting seating depth will fine tune the load to your rifle to wring out the best possible accuracy.
- The listed OAL is a good starting point with a known standard. I have found best accuracy with PT's to be .015" to .020" off the lands. Just make sure that this OAL fits into the magazine.

Also, when "working up" my loads, starting with the lowest, what exactly is it I'm looking for, or trying to achieve?

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- This depends on you. Maximum velocity or best accuracy. I'll take accuracy every time over speed. YMMV

All the manuals tell you what to do,in terms of each step , but very little of "the big picture" if that makes any sense .

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- The Nosler Reloading Guides show most Accurate Load for each powder tested. My experience has been that its a good starting point for an accurate load.

Also would I need a chronograph? If it will be helpful I,have no problem spending. If it's a waste I'll just buy more bullets and shoot even more.

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- YES. In addition to knowing the exact speed of your load, you will have Extreme Spread and Shot Deviation data to aid in your load development. For optimal accuracy, I strive for single digit ES and SD numbers.

JD338

Hello Nan, and welcome to the forum.

Last season, fall of 2016, I decided to use my .30-06 for all my hunting. I loaded up some 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and proceeded to take: black bear, mule deer, antelope and elk. No problem. The .308 & .30-06 have very similar performance in the field.

After decades of using both the .308 and the .30-06, I'd highly recommend sticking with the 165 or 168 grain bullets as an "all around" bullet. The 165 Nosler Partition should be just about perfect in that role.

Regards, Guy

Also, if you're loading for the .308 Winchester, I'd recommend giving Varget and/or Reloader 15 a good try. One or both of those powders usually work out real well, particularly with the 165/168 grain bullets.

Guy

165 Partition at 2700fps is really hard to beat all around for 308


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You stated that you're using a Scout rifle. By that I'm going to guess that you're talking about a 308 with a 18"-20"barrel. If that's the case then you're looking at an entire different reloading spectrum from a normal 22"-24" barrel.

I hunted with 308 carbine for many,many seasons and it drove me nuts trying to get what I felt was a solid load. That was a lot of wasted money, but a good education as to what Not to do.

1st off... chuck the 180gr idea in the trash. Even the Ballistic tip is designed to stand up to higher velocities (30/06,300Mag) than what your Scout is going to be able to produce.

If you're going to use a PT, or AB, then a 165gr is going to be good bet.

Also, go to the reloading data pages and don't look at the 308. Go to the 7.62X51. It will give you much a more realistic dynamic of what to expect.

With all that said, my honest suggestion is to send it to JES and have it rebored to a 338 Fed, then no matter what gr bullet you shoot out of it, it's going to Hammer without any doubt !

It's a savage hog hunter 20" barrel. By scout type rifle I'm referring to my use.

Can we talk about brass? Should I buy cheap ammo and use those cases, or or buy the Nosler or luapa brass?

Realistically how many times can you reuse a case?

Nan_wpg":3ccdnye1 said:

It's a savage hog hunter 20" barrel. By scout type rifle I'm referring to my use.

Can we talk about brass? Should I buy cheap ammo and use those cases, or or buy the Nosler or luapa brass?

Realistically how many times can you reuse a case?

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Depends on several factors--how hard you push the load, chamber dimensions, whether you neck size, whether you're willing to anneal as required by the brass, etc. Ten loadings should not be unusual. However, some people report three times as many loadings and more.

So 10 reloads without,annealing?

I can't justify the cost of an annealer based on the amount of shooting I will do once I figure out my optimum load.

I think the Lyman book says 5 reloads to be safe

I used a .308 for many years in the same capacity as you are going to use it. I literally wore out the trigger group, bolt stop and throat rifling I shot it so much. It was the rifle I learned to shoot centerfire rifles with, and learned to reload with. Took over 50 whitetail, some black bear and a moose with the rifle. The ONLY bullet I used for reloading (other than a few experiments along the way) was the Hornady 150gr Flat based interlock. It is solid enough for .308 velocities on the kinds of game you mention. They anchor large whitetail with authority, are accurate and inexpensive (lending to much more practice time which will make YOU a much better rifleman with your rig, much more important than a few decimals of SD or BC or BS). You would also be well served with a 165 conventional soft point from Hornady or Speer, but IMHO the 150 will serve your purpose well with less recoil. The premium bullets can be nice, and as you branch out in reloading you may wish to experiment for specific applications, but for now you'll be best served with conventional soft points.

For brass, I am a fan of PRVI partisan. It is inexpensive but high quality. Lapua may be a tad better, but you will not know the difference unless you are a serious paper puncher. Neck sized only, I've gotten over 12 loadings in my 7.5 Swiss (similar ballistics to .308). You can either buy their brass new or buy their milspec 7.62 NATO load with 145 gr FMJ and burn it up for practice. Horse apiece cost wise. I've switched from the Hornady to Speer 150 as it is more available locally and slightly more accurate in my wife's .308. They are both fine bullets for deer-black bear-wolf. I'm running IMR 4064, but many, many powders in the same burn speed will work well in the .308. 4064, 4320, and 4895 are old standby's and readily available most places, I'd start there. As above, Varget and R15 are also very good, but they are extremely popular with the target shooting fraternity, so availability is a bit sketchy.

Nan_wpg":37fr6i5l said:

So 10 reloads without,annealing?

I can't justify the cost of an annealer based on the amount of shooting I will do once I figure out my optimum load.

I think the Lyman book says 5 reloads to be safe

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No need for a fancy annealing machine. A simple household candle will do just fine.

Also - though I have and use a chronograph, it's really not necessary. I built an awful lot of good ammo for decades, before getting a chronograph.

Your rifle's 20" barrel is fine. I've got an older Browning in .308 with a 20" barrel, works great.

Keep it simple, build your load, practice a lot with it. You'll likely enjoy!

Regards, Guy

"Your rifle's 20" barrel is fine. I've got an older Browning in .308 with a 20" barrel, works great."

I go along with that.

Many long years ago I bought a Remington 660 in .308 and worked up a load with H335 and the 150 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter. Not sure if they called them that back then but they shot accurately and killed deer nicely. One show which was the second longest shot ever for me on game was 426 paces on a Mule Deer. One of my buddies wounded it and was getting away.
Years later I got a Ruger M77 RSI in .308 and worked up a load with the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core flat base bullet. By this time I had a chronograph and the load was doing 2550 FPS. FWIW, the load did 2610 FPS in a 22" barreled Winchester M70. Killed deer just as nice at the old 150 gr. load in the RSI.
If I were going to use a one load for everything with conventional cup and core bullet, I would take a close look at the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core. If I were to look at possibly a premium bullet, probably the Partition or AccuBond in the 165 gr. weight, whichever my rifle liked best.

For the record, while H335 does work great in the .308, the muzzle blast and bright flash now puts it way down on my list of powders for the .308 I like one of the 4895's or Re15, usually H4895.
Paul B.