QL request 160 AB in a 280 AI

longrangehunter · Nov 26, 2017

I'd like to check the B-time with QL compared to my actual data?

Nosler 160 AB
280 AI
24" BBL
RWS FF Brass I got 73.5 grains H2O with a slight round top filled with water.
IMR-4831
CCI-BR2
RWS BRASS @ 2.8200" CBTO = 3.3950" COAL (.005" off the lands).

I got 2920-2925 fps with 56.5 IMR 4831, and shot a .48" 3 shot group late in the day yesterday.

Another question, how does the seating depth going deeper into the case effect the B-time numbers? i.e. .010", .015", .020" , .025" .... etc. off the lands. I don't need them all but wondering what effect that has?

Thanks in advance.

TackDriver284 · Nov 26, 2017

LRH, I drew up the QL according to your data, then tweaked the Ba burn rate to match the velocity, and this what came up. You are right at the border of max pressure with .005" off the lands. Added more charts with each one .005" more off the lands as you requested. By the looks of it, seems that going deeper increases pressure. According to the OBT ( optimal barrel time ) chart, your 24 inch barrel shows a #5 node at 1.2282 and #6 node at 1.3084 which is the slower node.

The last chart I tweaked to find your node with .005" off the lands. It shows your powder charge and speed with 70 degree temp. It's just a rough estimate, I just do not know your temp where you are located.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.840 grain H2O = 4.210 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.395 inch = 86.23 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    45.20   2413    2068   35205   9220     98.8    1.552
-18.0   81    46.33   2466    2161   37491   9411     99.3    1.509
-16.0   83    47.46   2519    2255   39910   9586     99.6    1.465
-14.0   85    48.59   2572    2350   42470   9744     99.9    1.422
-12.0   87    49.72   2624    2446   45179   9884    100.0    1.381
-10.0   89    50.85   2675    2543   48046  10007    100.0    1.342
-08.0   91    51.98   2726    2640   51081  10124    100.0    1.304
-06.0   93    53.11   2776    2738   54294  10239    100.0    1.268
-04.0   95    54.24   2826    2837   57696  10352    100.0    1.233  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    55.37   2875    2936   61299  10461    100.0    1.199  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    56.50   2923    3036   65119  10568    100.0    1.167  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    57.63   2971    3137   69169  10673    100.0    1.136  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    58.76   3019    3239   73467  10774    100.0    1.106  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    59.89   3067    3341   78030  10872    100.0    1.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    61.02   3114    3445   82879  10967    100.0    1.050  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    62.15   3161    3550   88036  11058    100.0    1.023  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    56.50   3005    3209   76751  10237    100.0    1.091  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    56.50   2798    2782   53397  11026     99.8    1.271

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.760 grain H2O = 4.205 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.390 inch = 86.11 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    45.20   2414    2070   35270   9217     98.8    1.551
-18.0   81    46.33   2467    2163   37561   9408     99.3    1.508
-16.0   83    47.46   2521    2257   39987   9582     99.6    1.464
-14.0   85    48.59   2573    2353   42555   9740     99.9    1.421
-12.0   87    49.72   2625    2449   45272   9879    100.0    1.380
-10.0   89    50.85   2677    2545   48148  10002    100.0    1.340
-08.0   91    51.98   2727    2643   51193  10119    100.0    1.303
-06.0   93    53.11   2778    2741   54416  10234    100.0    1.266
-04.0   95    54.24   2827    2840   57829  10346    100.0    1.232  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    55.37   2876    2939   61446  10455    100.0    1.198  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    56.50   2925    3039   65279  10562    100.0    1.166  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    57.63   2973    3140   69344  10666    100.0    1.135  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    58.76   3021    3242   73658  10767    100.0    1.105  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    59.89   3068    3345   78239  10865    100.0    1.076  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    61.02   3116    3449   83108  10959    100.0    1.049  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    62.15   3163    3554   88288  11051    100.0    1.022  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    56.50   3007    3212   76943  10231    100.0    1.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    56.50   2800    2785   53524  11021     99.8    1.270

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.680 grain H2O = 4.200 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.385 inch = 85.98 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    45.20   2415    2072   35334   9214     98.8    1.549
-18.0   81    46.33   2469    2165   37632   9405     99.3    1.507
-16.0   83    47.46   2522    2260   40065   9579     99.6    1.462
-14.0   85    48.59   2575    2355   42640   9735     99.9    1.420
-12.0   87    49.72   2627    2451   45366   9874    100.0    1.379
-10.0   89    50.85   2678    2548   48251   9997    100.0    1.339
-08.0   91    51.98   2729    2646   51305  10113    100.0    1.301
-06.0   93    53.11   2779    2744   54538  10228    100.0    1.265
-04.0   95    54.24   2829    2843   57963  10340    100.0    1.230  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    55.37   2878    2942   61592  10449    100.0    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    56.50   2926    3043   65439  10556    100.0    1.165  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    57.63   2975    3144   69520  10659    100.0    1.134  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    58.76   3023    3246   73851  10760    100.0    1.104  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    59.89   3070    3349   78450  10858    100.0    1.075  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    61.02   3117    3453   83339  10952    100.0    1.048  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    62.15   3164    3558   88541  11043    100.0    1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    56.50   3008    3215   77136  10224    100.0    1.089  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    56.50   2802    2789   53653  11015     99.8    1.268

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.600 grain H2O = 4.194 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.380 inch = 85.85 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    45.20   2416    2075   35399   9211     98.8    1.548
-18.0   81    46.33   2470    2168   37704   9401     99.3    1.505
-16.0   83    47.46   2523    2262   40144   9575     99.6    1.461
-14.0   85    48.59   2576    2358   42726   9731     99.9    1.418
-12.0   87    49.72   2628    2454   45460   9870    100.0    1.377
-10.0   89    50.85   2680    2551   48354   9991    100.0    1.338
-08.0   91    51.98   2730    2649   51417  10108    100.0    1.300
-06.0   93    53.11   2781    2747   54662  10222    100.0    1.264
-04.0   95    54.24   2830    2846   58098  10334    100.0    1.229  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    55.37   2879    2946   61740  10443    100.0    1.196  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    56.50   2928    3046   65601  10549    100.0    1.163  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    57.63   2976    3147   69697  10653    100.0    1.132  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    58.76   3024    3249   74044  10753    100.0    1.103  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    59.89   3072    3352   78662  10851    100.0    1.074  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    61.02   3119    3456   83571  10945    100.0    1.046  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    62.15   3166    3562   88795  11035    100.0    1.020  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    56.50   3010    3218   77330  10218    100.0    1.088  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    56.50   2803    2792   53782  11009     99.8    1.267

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.520 grain H2O = 4.189 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.375 inch = 85.73 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   79    45.20   2418    2077   35464   9209     98.8    1.547
-18.0   81    46.33   2472    2170   37775   9398     99.3    1.504
-16.0   83    47.46   2525    2265   40222   9571     99.6    1.460
-14.0   85    48.59   2578    2360   42812   9727     99.9    1.417
-12.0   87    49.72   2630    2457   45554   9865    100.0    1.376
-10.0   89    50.85   2681    2554   48457   9986    100.0    1.337
-08.0   91    51.98   2732    2652   51531  10102    100.0    1.299
-06.0   93    53.11   2782    2750   54786  10217    100.0    1.263
-04.0   95    54.24   2832    2849   58234  10328    100.0    1.228  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   97    55.37   2881    2949   61889  10437    100.0    1.194  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   99    56.50   2930    3049   65763  10543    100.0    1.162  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  101    57.63   2978    3151   69875  10646    100.0    1.131  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  103    58.76   3026    3253   74239  10746    100.0    1.102  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  105    59.89   3074    3356   78875  10843    100.0    1.073  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  107    61.02   3121    3460   83805  10937    100.0    1.045  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  109    62.15   3168    3566   89051  11028    100.0    1.019  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     99    56.50   3011    3222   77525  10212    100.0    1.086  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     99    56.50   2805    2795   53911  11003     99.8    1.266

This is tweaked to the # 5 node. It's roughly your powder charge and speed at 70 degree temp. 54.40 gr. powder charge @ 2833 fps OBT 1.228

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.840 grain H2O = 4.210 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.395 inch = 86.23 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 4831 ?

Code:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   76    43.52   2332    1932   32040   8907     97.9    1.614
-18.0   78    44.61   2384    2020   34059   9114     98.5    1.573
-16.0   80    45.70   2436    2108   36192   9306     99.0    1.534
-14.0   82    46.78   2488    2198   38446   9484     99.4    1.492
-12.0   84    47.87   2539    2289   40827   9646     99.7    1.449
-10.0   86    48.96   2589    2381   43340   9792     99.9    1.408
-08.0   87    50.05   2639    2474   45995   9922    100.0    1.370
-06.0   89    51.14   2688    2567   48798  10037    100.0    1.332
-04.0   91    52.22   2737    2661   51759  10149    100.0    1.296
-02.0   93    53.31   2785    2756   54887  10260    100.0    1.261
+00.0   95    54.40   2833    2851   58193  10367    100.0    1.228  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   97    55.49   2880    2946   61688  10473    100.0    1.196  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   99    56.58   2926    3043   65384  10576    100.0    1.165  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  101    57.66   2973    3140   69295  10676    100.0    1.135  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  103    58.75   3019    3238   73435  10773    100.0    1.107  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  105    59.84   3065    3337   77822  10868    100.0    1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     95    54.40   2920    3028   68715  10027    100.0    1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     95    54.40   2700    2590   47650  10755     99.3    1.340

longrangehunter · Nov 26, 2017

Thanks Mark,

I only ran up to a max of 56.6 with this combination after seeing the speeds across my P35, it was 47 degrees here yesterday. 56.0/2836 56.3/2905 56.6/2901 all @ 3.400"/2.8250" CBTO. I then seated three at 2.8200" at 56.5 for a three shot group which went into .48" but got clouded up and got dark so I had no data for those three last shots.

Brass showed zero signs of over pressure (little growth, no flat primmer(s), excessive case head expansion) BTW vs. the Nosler Brass which is very soft even after a single fire form in case you were wondering?

FWIW I loaded the ammo, walked over to the cabin 30' away and sat down to shoot off the bench with the ammo in my pocket to keep it warm.... I'd say the ammo was 70 degrees IMO, from either my pocket or the gun since I loaded and fired one round and loaded another to fire.

longrangehunter · Nov 26, 2017

What's interesting is my first round at 56.0 IMR 4831 @ 3.400" went right at 2836, which is what you have shown at only 54.4 grains. I wonder why the difference?

longrangehunter · Nov 27, 2017

So I couldn't get anything to stick today. I started to move the bullet .005" further off the lands, and dropped down to 56.0 grains. .030" looked good .42", but not repeatable. I even went back to where I started @ 2.8200" CBTO w/56.0 grains, printed a .2214" three shot group, just not consistently, it would do the two and two or three thing an inch away from each other.

Not sure where I'll go with the combo now, I had better luck with Fire forming ragged holes dead center. I may have to clean the gun, and test with a different powder like H4831sc, IMR 7828, or the old favorite RL22, or RL25?

Not what how I thought this would have turned out today.

JD338 · Nov 27, 2017

When I built my 280 AI, my gun Smith told me to use RL22. I've shot so many groups that have went .2-.3's that I haven't bothered trying to find a better power.
With the 160 gr AB, I'm getting 3000 fps from a 24" barrel. My best group went .092"
If give RL22 a try.

JD338

SJB358 · Nov 28, 2017

Kevin, when I initially saw your stuff being so close to the lands I thought, well darn, a rifle that likes ABs close. Usually for me I won’t start an AccuBond closer than .050” to the rifling and usually find my loads in the .050-.100” Mark. I’d give them a shot with more jump. I know it’s counter to the way you run cup and cores but it has worked for me a few times now.

longrangehunter · Nov 28, 2017

Thanks JD, and Scotty for the info.

I looked up what the seating depth was with this bullet in my Wby/Hart 7mm-08 and it was .030" off the lands. Which worked pretty well in this gun, but when I went .035" and saw the 1 1/2" group I thought this wasn't going in the right direction? I'll retest further away from the lands like you said Scotty.

JD, RL22 has been my go to powder ever since testing it in a lot of cartridges, lots of speed in everything it's used in. I have a great load in this gun using 56.0 RL22 and the FB 160 TSX going roughly 2,950 fps in the 1/2"-5/8" area and I may just have to try RL22 next with this bullet.

How far off the lands is that load JD?

longrangehunter · Nov 28, 2017

I Shot 2 @ .040" which I didn't like to even shoot a 3rd, and went to .050" Shot 3 shots, 2 close to touching. Not bad, not great either. I'll need a anneal the brass before I retest the last 10 160 AB's I have left with the RWS Brass.

I did clean the gun prior to retesting today, so I fouled the barrel w/some older ammo I made using the same powder and the 150 BT @ 3.370". It settled in after 2 rounds, 2 went right into the Bullseye after the two touching each other.

Here's a photo of the work up, I'll need to take another photo of the other target that had a .2214 3 shot group, but would put more in the same POI but off to the left at 9 O'clock two touching, the other went right at 4 O'clock! Not sure if that's me or the load?

Maybe I should just stick to the BT and be happy! :grin: I took a lot of game with it years ago.

SJB358 · Nov 29, 2017

I think you’re mighty close around that .050” mark Kevin. I’d be inclined to try .050, .055 and .060” myself. Looks like you’re hovering around the 1/2” mark.

Saying that, not much I’d worry about hunting with that 150 Ballistic Tip either.

JD338 · Nov 29, 2017

Kevin,

My rifle has a long throat, COL is 3.490" and I'm .020" off the lands.

JD338

longrangehunter · Nov 30, 2017

Thanks guys! Looked as though the .030" and .005" off were the best of the bunch, .050" was a close second. I may need to pick one, and move the powder charge around and see what shakes out?

TackDriver284 · Nov 30, 2017

longrangehunter":d60bjw49 said:
Thanks guys! Looked as though the .030" and .005" off were the best of the bunch, .050" was a close second. I may need to pick one, and move the powder change around and see what shakes out?

A change of primers may also tighten things up. Are those groups @ 100 yards?

longrangehunter · Nov 30, 2017

Yah Mark, those are at 100 yards. Between the CCI-BR2, and a F210M I rarely see a change, but I could try a Winchester WLR primer since I have those on hand.

longrangehunter · Dec 4, 2017

I only had 10 bullets left from the box I started with. I did change from CCI-BR2's to F210M after I annealed the brass, and retested today.

I first went up .03 to 56.3 and used .030" off since that looked like a winner winner chicken dinner, no not really, but I'd like to think so from the previous time. Shot 3 at the lower Right and the group opened up, Ok so I'll go the other way!

Next I went down .03 to 55.7 @ .030" off and the first 2 went neatly into the bullseye, the 3rd I thought I might have pulled so I made another one since I had the 1 extra....... nope went right next to what I thought I could have pulled high/right..... Not what I was hoping to see! Top Right corner.

My last 3 I loaded to the same weight charge of 55.7 since I thought that looked promising, and pushed the bullet back into the lands from where I had begun testing @ 3.3970-3.400" = 2.8250" CBTO. Once again I thought winner winner chicken dinner until I fired the 3rd shot, and the last of these bullets. Well once again not what I hoped for........ in the end it looks as though 55.7 @ .030" off, and into the lands still produced the best groups, but I never went deeper than .050" off.

Not sure I'll come back to this bullet but if I do this is where I'll look at retesting again, and try a different powder too.

Thanks for the help, and the QL data.

SJB358 · Dec 5, 2017

Your .050 group looks great Kevin. I’d try 1/8 turn on your seater and retry.

I’ve monkeyed around a bunch with ABs and while I’ve had good stuff up close they have always been more consistent further back.

TackDriver284 · Dec 5, 2017

Like Scotty says, the .050" group isn't bad at all, maybe you pulled on the 3rd shot. might want to give it another try. You may want to try a different powder if you have exhausted your search with IMR4831, the 160 AB is a great bullet and I would not give up on it yet. I got a gut feeling that a slower burning powder will work better.

Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 64.303 grain H2O = 4.175 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Code:

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

53 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 102.0     65.0     4.21    3086   100.0    65000   12554   1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP                          102.9     63.6     4.12    3065   100.0    65000   12727   1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560                    104.7     63.4     4.11    3061    98.7    65000   13116   1.140  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 517                107.3     67.9     4.40    3061    99.4    65000   12851   1.131  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  107.2     67.8     4.39    3060    99.4    65000   12826   1.131  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70                   99.8     63.0     4.08    3056   100.0    65000   12321   1.131  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO                    104.9     66.1     4.28    3052    97.7    65000   13203   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828                           109.2     62.9     4.08    3048    99.1    65000   12676   1.130  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC                       103.3     62.9     4.08    3048    99.1    65000   12676   1.130  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25                 110.0     64.9     4.20    3036   100.0    62743   12180   1.153  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation       105.0     62.9     4.08    3036    99.7    65000   12580   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15                       105.0     62.9     4.08    3036    99.7    65000   12580   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22                 105.0     62.9     4.08    3036    99.7    65000   12580   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP15                        107.8     63.2     4.10    3035    99.6    65000   12600   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WXR                     107.8     63.2     4.10    3035    99.6    65000   12600   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2213                        104.3     62.5     4.05    3034    99.0    65000   12570   1.129  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AP 2214                        108.1     66.5     4.31    3026    99.2    65000   12382   1.127  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 60                   93.4     58.1     3.76    3021   100.0    65000   11297   1.140  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Magnum                     104.5     67.5     4.37    3016    99.9    65000   11980   1.138  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R905                      106.2     62.5     4.05    3003    98.7    65000   12292   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation       108.0     65.3     4.23    2999    97.4    65000   12428   1.133  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-23                 107.5     62.4     4.04    2998   100.0    65000   11304   1.154  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17                            92.4     57.4     3.72    2997   100.0    65000   11216   1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17                  92.4     57.4     3.72    2997   100.0    65000   11216   1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209                        101.2     59.7     3.87    2994    99.6    65000   11925   1.137  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19                 101.8     60.3     3.91    2992    99.6    65000   11995   1.144  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 518                 98.0     60.0     3.89    2987   100.0    65000   11645   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP14 ~approximation         102.5     60.8     3.94    2985    99.6    65000   11910   1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 511                 94.2     59.5     3.85    2984   100.0    65000   11555   1.151  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter                      97.3     59.5     3.86    2983   100.0    65000   11539   1.151  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414                        91.9     57.6     3.73    2981   100.0    65000   11598   1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760                      91.9     57.6     3.73    2981   100.0    65000   11598   1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 62                   95.8     59.5     3.85    2980   100.0    65000   11307   1.164  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N570                    110.0     68.7     4.45    2978    93.9    55911   13905   1.212  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  98.9     57.1     3.70    2978   100.0    65000   11066   1.157  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 ~approximation           99.7     59.1     3.83    2968    99.5    65000   11690   1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA4                         99.7     59.1     3.83    2968    99.5    65000   11690   1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204                           96.5     59.1     3.83    2968    99.5    65000   11690   1.145  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   102.9     61.7     4.00    2967    98.4    65000   11858   1.142  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4831                      107.0     61.7     4.00    2967    98.4    65000   11858   1.142  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30                        110.0     65.2     4.23    2967    98.6    57703   12881   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2                        110.0     65.2     4.23    2967    98.6    57703   12881   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365                        98.8     58.2     3.77    2961   100.0    65000   10705   1.163  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550                     94.1     57.0     3.69    2959   100.0    65000   11184   1.162  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP                           96.8     56.8     3.68    2958   100.0    65000   11039   1.158  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP19 ~approximation          96.9     56.8     3.68    2958   100.0    65000   11036   1.158  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S385                       101.9     61.1     3.96    2953    99.9    65000   11427   1.164  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350                       95.9     56.8     3.68    2952   100.0    65000   10986   1.175  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester Supreme 780             100.2     62.6     4.06    2943    99.5    65000   11386   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation        97.3     58.6     3.79    2942   100.0    65000   11220   1.158  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R904                      100.6     58.8     3.81    2940    98.9    65000   11425   1.147  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831                           101.6     57.6     3.74    2939   100.0    65000   10795   1.167  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 3100                      105.0     62.2     4.03    2938   100.0    65000   11047   1.178  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N165                    107.2     62.9     4.07    2937    99.8    65000   11165   1.155  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 11                   90.6     55.4     3.59    2933   100.0    65000   10639   1.157  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4955 Enduron                   104.2     60.1     3.90    2933    98.5    65000   11499   1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4350                       99.3     57.6     3.73    2928    99.9    65000   11030   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4350                            97.5     57.5     3.72    2927    99.9    65000   11005   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S070                          96.6     56.7     3.67    2927   100.0    65000   11020   1.165  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N160                    107.3     61.0     3.95    2922    98.9    65000   11214   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation        91.7     54.8     3.55    2919   100.0    65000   10690   1.140  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 99.3     57.0     3.69    2912   100.0    65000   10174   1.160  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S071                         110.0     61.7     4.00    2911   100.0    62886   11013   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    93.4     54.7     3.55    2910   100.0    65000   10806   1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2217                        110.0     64.5     4.18    2909    98.1    57248   12080   1.195  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                      110.0     64.5     4.18    2909    98.1    57248   12080   1.195  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                       94.5     55.0     3.56    2909    99.9    65000   10882   1.159  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP7                          94.5     55.0     3.56    2909    99.9    65000   10882   1.159  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S361                        99.5     62.8     4.07    2909    98.4    65000   11214   1.158  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4007 SSC                        91.5     55.0     3.57    2908    99.9    65000   10874   1.159  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex S065                          95.6     55.4     3.59    2902   100.0    65000   10585   1.165  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320                            90.3     52.6     3.41    2901   100.0    65000   10158   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-33                 110.0     70.7     4.58    2900    93.1    52349   13498   1.251
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation        93.3     54.9     3.56    2895   100.0    65000   10386   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R903                       91.8     53.8     3.49    2894   100.0    65000   10178   1.178  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S355                        92.1     53.4     3.46    2892   100.0    65000   10206   1.171  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon VARGET                      91.3     52.3     3.39    2888   100.0    65000   10190   1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2208                         91.0     52.3     3.39    2888   100.0    65000   10190   1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4166 Enduron                    92.7     52.6     3.41    2886   100.0    65000   10464   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4064                            91.7     51.4     3.33    2878   100.0    65000    9984   1.157  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7977 Enduron                   108.5     63.6     4.12    2866    92.1    65000   11071   1.150  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2700                       91.7     56.7     3.68    2862    99.8    65000   10282   1.162  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Retumbo                    110.0     65.6     4.25    2857    99.4    49800   12573   1.275
ADI AR 2225                        110.0     65.6     4.25    2857    99.4    49800   12573   1.275
ReloadSwiss RS 80                  110.0     70.7     4.58    2852    93.0    49869   13317   1.277
Vihtavuori N150                     97.1     54.3     3.52    2847   100.0    65000    9624   1.171  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2218                        110.0     69.5     4.50    2830    90.5    50152   13470   1.268
Lovex D100                         110.0     70.2     4.55    2817    88.7    58020   11464   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135                     93.3     50.2     3.25    2796   100.0    65000    8901   1.183  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 24N41                   110.0     69.5     4.50    2789    85.8    53078   11958   1.246
Norma 217                          110.0     64.2     4.16    2763    97.6    43741   12624   1.366
Vihtavuori N170                    110.0     64.5     4.18    2749    91.0    51983   11436   1.286
Hodgdon H870                       110.0     67.3     4.36    2739    92.0    44287   12673   1.355
Alliant Reloder-50                 110.0     70.5     4.57    2699    88.4    41637   12909   1.408
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 110.0     69.0     4.47    2644    80.2    44082   11893   1.408
Hodgdon US 869                     110.0     69.5     4.50    2595    81.5    42812   11131   1.385
Hodgdon 50BMG                      110.0     66.2     4.29    2593    77.3    42973   11082   1.381
SNPE Vectan SP 13                  110.0     66.6     4.32    2541    85.9    38905   10976   1.451
Accurate 8700                      110.0     68.0     4.41    2515    84.7    38506   10898   1.450
Vihtavuori 20N29                   110.0     70.2     4.55    2492    81.2    37026   10941   1.485
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520       110.0     66.6     4.32    2475    82.7    36573   10638   1.493
NC A3502 ,test only                110.0     63.8     4.13    2269    57.9    34227    8157   1.542
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only           110.0     63.8     4.13    2248    62.6    32012    8636   1.586
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only       110.0     63.8     4.13    1607    28.4    17750    3988   2.069

MAinAR · Dec 6, 2017

I never stop seating deeper and testing with any AB until I get past at least .100" off lands. Some are best at .125" off too.

longrangehunter · Dec 6, 2017

I have 5-6 lbs. of RL25, and at least 4-5 of RL22 I could try, plus 3 lbs. of IMR 7828 and IMR 7828 ssc each, and H4831sc.

Years ago I came up with a good load using the FB 160 TSX and RL22 going around 2,950 fps that's a solid 5/8" load and I still have a box of that same lot of bullets I could just assemble and hunt with. I was hoping to find one bullet between the 150 BT I use, and the 175 NPT that frankly didn't shoot well at all past 300 yards this Fall, so I didn't Elk hunt with it.

I might as well test the TSX out to 700-750 yards and see how it performs this week since we have zero wind, and clear blue skies, but cold 25 degrees. If it fails too I'll go back to the drawing board and buy another box of the 160 Accubonds.

Thanks for the info Guys.

SJB358 · Dec 6, 2017

I'd not give up on that 160 AB till you seat it a touch deeper. I have seen them pull that 3rd round pull in a bunch with deeper seating.

7828 and 22 would be the next ones I'd mess with if you wanted to try something else.

QL request 160 AB in a 280 AI

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