10 shot load development

I used it with one load in a 6.5 CM and one load in a 9.3x62. Worked perfect with single digit sd’s in both cartridges.


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Dwh7271":4lomh9go said:
I now use it exclusively.
A lot fewer cartridges to find the sweet spot.

So once you find your velocity node I assume you test seating depth, once you establish seating depth do you go back through charge weight?
 
I don’t.
I look at max, go down 1.5-2 gr and load every .2 gr .
Mount the magnetospeed and shoot one of each, recording the velocity. You can shoot em in the dirt, velocity is all I want here.
I then look for any flat spots; where changes in charge weight do not significantly change velocity.
Then I take the middle of the flat spot and load three at a starting seating depth and shoot. If necessary I vary seating depth until I get what I’m looking for.

For what it’s worth, I am finding in a given rifle and cartridge the velocity is what is important. For example, if I find the flat spot at 2950 with H4350 odds are any other powder I change to will shoot well at 2950 also.
 
Dwh7271":2k8nho9e said:
I look at max, go down 1.5-2 gr and load every .2 gr .
Two questions -

Whose max do you believe, given that Nosler and Hodgdon, for example never seem to match?

0.2 seems like an awfully small change for my 7mm or more 300 Wby Mag. I've usually done 0.5gr with other load development for those. Do you vary by a percentage of the size of the cartridge, or 0.2 no matter if it's a .223 Rem or a 338-378 Wby?
 
It's a fine way.

All he's really doing is looking for consistency. That's all we want. Consistency is a key element of accuracy and has been for a very long time. Since the beginning of shooting.

If you think I'm making light of his procedure, I'm not. I'm endorsing it. Please, look for consistency.

Regards, Guy
 
The more I read about ladder testing and how it saves wear and tear on barrels, powder and bullet wasting on 3 -5 shot groups, I started ladder testing about 6 months ago and I usually use .3 increments on ladder testing and use a chrono, I get two results, speed and on paper, then find a node or two, and go back and shoot 3 round groups on nodes selected from the ladder testing. I usually load in .2 increments this time to narrow it and mostly find what I am looking for and fine tune it with seating depth, sometimes going in .1 increments at the end. Different people have their own preferences. I am not an expert on ladder testing, but it works for me.
 
Dr. Vette":1w0g1qkp said:
Dwh7271":1w0g1qkp said:
I look at max, go down 1.5-2 gr and load every .2 gr .
Two questions -

Whose max do you believe, given that Nosler and Hodgdon, for example never seem to match?

0.2 seems like an awfully small change for my 7mm or more 300 Wby Mag. I've usually done 0.5gr with other load development for those. Do you vary by a percentage of the size of the cartridge, or 0.2 no matter if it's a .223 Rem or a 338-378 Wby?
I get Dwh7271 to do a QL powder run for me for a specific bullet and weight which shows max charge for each powder with that particular bullet from the info I supply him, H2O cap, Barrel length and max SAMMI psi for the cartridge I'm loading. I take the top powder which gives max velocity or one that I have on hand. Subtract 1.5-2.0grs and work up a chart subtracting .2grs till I reach 10 loads. I then shoot them threw the chronograph recording my velocities and looking for pressure signs and a flat spot in velocity. you may see more then one in that 10 shot string. Chose the one that best suits your purpose and work with seating depth till you get the best group.

I have never tried to use a book Max load with this load development so I don't know how it would work but I don't see why it wouldn't.
The 10 shot load development test is a quick and easy way it does work and saves powder, bullet and primers.
 
OK, thanks for the info.

I wonder if shooting a string 0.5 apart to look for max would be useful for those of us without a QL program? Then, compare to book max and go from there. I've found that real max (based on signs) compared to book max may be a grain or more different, which would affect where one sets up the 1.5-2.0gr starting point.
 
Dr V,
Some of the bigger stuff requires larger increments that is true.
No reason why .3 or .5 jumps wouldn’t do fine.
 
It would also be nice if the companies providing the reloading info would include the chamber pressure of their max load so we wouldn't have to do trial and error to discover the true max pressure with each combo. Just saying it is Max doesn't always help. I need to see that it is.

Santa Claus may be delivering me a QL program this year so I don't have to bug people for help.
I really like how it shows predicted pressure for each change in powder charge and case fill %.
Once I learn how to use it then maybe I could help others as they have helped me.
 
Three rifles of mine responded splendidly to this treatment.

Making a 0.2gr adjustment took my 300WSM from shooting groups that ranged between 0.75 to 1.5 (not a typo) at 100 yards to consisten 0.5-0.75" groups at 100. This type of testing is what showed me that a small dip in the charge weight....from 63.0gr to 62.8gr. My 0.5gr increments and "shoot and try" methods prior missed that node entirely.
 
tddeangelo":1lghhls4 said:
Three rifles of mine responded splendidly to this treatment.

Making a 0.2gr adjustment took my 300WSM from shooting groups that ranged between 0.75 to 1.5 (not a typo) at 100 yards to consisten 0.5-0.75" groups at 100. This type of testing is what showed me that a small dip in the charge weight....from 63.0gr to 62.8gr. My 0.5gr increments and "shoot and try" methods prior missed that node entirely.
Interesting.

Any chance you can post the data, i.e. what powder, loads, speeds, etc.
I would not mind getting my 300 WSM to shoot better than it does with factory ammo.
Not that I'd copy, but it would give another good example.

Thanks.
 
Speed data:
57_E29_ECB-23_CB-4936-_AB33-48_DCF0_E53297.jpg


Resulting Target:
CA36_CC22-_BDD4-4_EB3-9_B9_C-85_E068_FF3_A7_E.png


I'd been shooting 63.0gr prior.
 
Interesting. Thanks for posting. I can see that my 7mm Wby with 160 AB has a bit more shooting in store, though I'd like to look at what I have and review it in comparison to yours.
 
Dr. Vette":1okpf20f said:
Dwh7271":1okpf20f said:
I look at max, go down 1.5-2 gr and load every .2 gr .
Two questions -

Whose max do you believe, given that Nosler and Hodgdon, for example never seem to match?

0.2 seems like an awfully small change for my 7mm or more 300 Wby Mag. I've usually done 0.5gr with other load development for those. Do you vary by a percentage of the size of the cartridge, or 0.2 no matter if it's a .223 Rem or a 338-378 Wby?



bingo! If I used this method in my 30-378 bee I would burn out the barrel before I got through a combo 2 bullets and 2 powders. Besides I am interested in top loads. Who wants a 30-378 that will do 3100 fps with a 180 gr that shoots 1/4"? Not me
 
Fotis
Not to disagree but bigger stuff uses bigger jumps. .5 or maybe more.
Starting just below max will generally give the most consistent max load. You can run the test as high and hot as you like. It still works, at least for me.
But I’ve seen your results and targets and far be it from me to criticize anything you’re doing as your results are superb
 
Dr. Vette":22u2t32w said:
OK, thanks for the info.

I wonder if shooting a string 0.5 apart to look for max would be useful for those of us without a QL program? Then, compare to book max and go from there. I've found that real max (based on signs) compared to book max may be a grain or more different, which would affect where one sets up the 1.5-2.0gr starting point.

I still use .2 for the big guys. My Mashburn and 338 Win both showed excellent “flat spots” with .2 grain charges. I don’t think that .5 flat spots will be as evident. Since I’m a hunter I want the top end speeds with my stuff. I won’t start the 10 shot test until I’m in the beginning range of where I think FPS should be.

With the 22-250 I used .1 increments and it makes it very easy to ID where and how big your spot is.

The MS makes it easy cause I just strap it on the gun and take it out back to ID my spots, then I’ll shoot a few groups. It’s been REALLY easy for me doing it this way and my loads are consistent across different range outings. Really nice to have the gun keep planting them on point everytime you crush the trigger.
 
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