Tenacity...who's toughest?

I was thinking today that different animals react differently to getting shot. I'm not talking about the 1 or 2 off nominal experiences, but the general results after shooting a bunch of critters. Since we've got a well accomplished group of hunters here- what say you?

To me-
Moose- pretty easy to kill but fairly slow to die. Most of ours have just stood around after getting shot until they fall over, which can take some time. Sometimes a second shot speeds that up, most of the time it seems pointless. My moose this year took 2 right through the lungs and was on his feet for what seemed like forever but was closer to a full minute.

Caribou- seems pretty much like they're all bang/flops. We've never tracked one more than a few feet and most drop to the shot it seems like- at least with boiler room shots. We've even had some pretty poorly hit ones just lay down and die or wait for the next shot.

Deer- it seems that these are wired pretty tight and often go for a death run until they pile up. It seems that boiler room shots with fast cartridges and fairly soft bullets turn them off a bit quicker. Deer are the only critter I've blood trailed.

Bears- these seem pretty tough to me after seeing a few go down. We tend to have a "shoot until it doesn't move" policy on bears and it seems like multiple shots are the norm. Can't say we've ever dropped one to the shot. Even my close range black bear this year got up after having been shot through the chest at pretty close range- enough to shatter his sternum and leave a huge hole. It was definitely a fatal hit, but I'm still thinking he'd have went at least a hundred yards before piling up if I hadn't shot him in the spine immediately after he stood back up. The first shot was low in the chest and wrecked everything in there- heart, lungs, broken bone..the works.


So what's your toughest animal to drop?

Hardest I know of in NA is mountain goat. It’s unreal the lead some of them can take and keep going. And we are talking brown bear type calibers, 300, 338, etc. tough animals.


I have yet to begin to procrastinate

Who's toughest? Not me, that's for sure! Your observations are pretty much spot on, Hodgeman. When shot, moose can be dead and not know it. They seem to be unmoved by the shot, even when it is a perfect shot. The only ones I ever saw right down were spine shot. Caribou seem to drop easily, in general. Whitetail seem always to manage to run a surprising distance after being shot--mule deer seem to run somewhat less far. Black bears can be surprisingly tough. The first black bear I ever shot was one of my biggest, and he dropped like a rock. I thought, "Well, these critters aren't so tough." That afternoon, I shot a little sow. The first shot anchored her, hitting just below the spine. The second shot took out her heart. The third and fourth shot were through the lungs. She was still howling and glaring at me as I walked up and delivered a coup de grâce to the head. I could only think, "What sort of animal are these bears!" Still, having said this, I think a mature bull elk is still one of the toughest animals to drop. They are tenacious.

Have to agree that mtn goats are tenacious and can really soak up a bullet, but so can a bull elk in the rut or an angry grizzly bear. Have to say that I harvested many elk before finally harvesting one cleanly with one shot; and that a 210 gr Partition from a 338 Win Mag. Those other bulls took a variety of bullets (Partitions, SGK's, Speer Hot Cor's, Power Points, AccuBonds and Corelokts) from 6.5x55, 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 7MM STW, 300 Win Mag, the 270 Wby mentioned previously, 358 Win, 35 Whelen and 300 WSM. Most of those early elk were heart shots. Found as I went that the double lung and high shoulder/spine shots were quicker, cleaner one shot harvests, especially when alert or adrenalized from the rut.

When it comes down to it though, I believe that animals are just as individualistic as humans; some are wimps and will just fall over dead from a marginal hit, while others hang on for all their worth and soak up the lead like no other animal in their species will. But as always, bullet placement is key.

My first bull elk was all worked up when I called him in to 100 yards, and took a 130gr Partition from my 270 Wby quartering to and travelled 200 yards into the swamp with wounded heart and no left lung, and was still trying to get up and get away when we caught up with him almost ten minutes later, and finished him off.
My first bison took a 180 gr Partition from my 300 Win Mag at 150 yards, breaking his onside shoulder, which split the bullet, which part went into his heart and the remainder went through his jugular vein. 200 yards later and five more shots into the vitals finally finished him off, with the final shot behind the ear at 15 yards to put him down for keeps. He weighed approx 2500 lbs.
My first mtn goat took a 165 gr SGK from my 7MM Rem Mag at 15 yards, in the chest, which knocked him off the boulder, and when I looked over the dge to see him, he was standing there looking at me from 20 yards down the mountain. He took a path around the cliff I tried to follow, but couldn't, and he bedded on a ledge. I had to crawl out on another ledge and take the shot down across the cliff at him to finish him off, about 15 minutes later. When he had fully expired and his muscles relaxed, he finally fell from his perch and rolled another 100 yards down the mountain where he hung up against a tree. Took over an hour to climb around and down to him.
My first woodland caribou bull took 5 shots from my 375 Win (200 gr Power Points) in the vitals, the first and furthest shot being from 100 yards, before finally expiring. Any one of those shots should have cleanly harvested that bull, as they have done on many moose and black bears over the years.
One old mule buck took a crossbow bolt on the point of the shoulder, quartering slightly to, as he started to move as the bolt was in flight. He ran, and only left 15 drops of blood over the course of about 1500 yards in the snow. Lost the trail in the woods where many deer travelled and bedded. Looked and hunted for that buck for two weeks until finally finding him again, limping as he tended a hot doe. Shot him in the lungs at 350 yards with a 160 gr AccuBond from my 7MM STW, and he went 150 yards spraying blood all over the snow. He was a fighter and did not want to give up the ghost but expired just after I caught up to him in the brush.Toook a bone saw and vise grips to pull that broadhead out of his shoulder.

So far in my limited experience Bull elk.

Mike, although I agree with you about Moose, I find their ability in finding a difficult place to expire more frustrating. On average the brown and white bear have required more shots, but that might be just my desire for them to put them down as quickly a possible. I have not had any trouble with goats, you guys are probably just using the wrong rifle.

I think the toughest animals I have ever taken or seen taken are elk and antelope. Man I've seen some elk do some amazing things and are just plain tough to kill often times, even with good shot placement. Some folks might say that antelope are easy to kill but on them as well I've seen them run a long ways after being shot.

Thankful Otter":2sbdlu7m said:

Mike, although I agree with you about Moose, I find their ability in finding a difficult place to expire more frustrating. On average the brown and white bear have required more shots, but that might be just my desire for them to put them down as quickly a possible. I have not had any trouble with goats, you guys are probably just using the wrong rifle.

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The wrong rifle? I dunno', Cheyenne, they go "BANG" when I pull the trigger. They send tiny projectiles at high velocity over vast distances and work well on about everything else. Good to see you posting. I agree on your observation of the great bears. We put them down and want them to stay down, so they get a lot of lead whether they need it or not.

As I am fond of saying,
Nothing beats a grain fed bear!
Whether it is 180, 200, 220 or 250 grains at a time! LOL

DrMike":nqcrgzo9 said:

Thankful Otter":nqcrgzo9 said:

Mike, although I agree with you about Moose, I find their ability in finding a difficult place to expire more frustrating. On average the brown and white bear have required more shots, but that might be just my desire for them to put them down as quickly a possible. I have not had any trouble with goats, you guys are probably just using the wrong rifle.

Click to expand...

The wrong rifle? I dunno', Cheyenne, they go "BANG" when I pull the trigger. They send tiny projectiles at high velocity over vast distances and work well on about everything else. Good to see you posting. I agree on your observation of the great bears. We put them down and want them to stay down, so they get a lot of lead whether they need it or not.

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yeah, your 280 Ross and my 275 H & H has been making animals fall down when they go bang for a long time

Dr Mike, funny story. A white bear would not stay down and finally I was close enough to put one in her ear and said "try to get back up now bitch" and after I regained my composure I laughed at myself. Of course being out on the ice along for long stretches of time finds me talking to the dogs--a lot, so talking to a bear was no big shake

Thankful Otter":18jbyi4m said:

DrMike":18jbyi4m said:

Thankful Otter":18jbyi4m said:

Mike, although I agree with you about Moose, I find their ability in finding a difficult place to expire more frustrating. On average the brown and white bear have required more shots, but that might be just my desire for them to put them down as quickly a possible. I have not had any trouble with goats, you guys are probably just using the wrong rifle.

Click to expand...

The wrong rifle? I dunno', Cheyenne, they go "BANG" when I pull the trigger. They send tiny projectiles at high velocity over vast distances and work well on about everything else. Good to see you posting. I agree on your observation of the great bears. We put them down and want them to stay down, so they get a lot of lead whether they need it or not.

Click to expand...

yeah, your 280 Ross and my 275 H & H has been making animals fall down when they go bang for a long time

Dr Mike, funny story. A white bear would not stay down and finally I was close enough to put one in her ear and said "try to get back up now winch" and after I regained my composure I laughed at myself. Of course being out on the ice along for long stretches of time finds me talking to the dogs--a lot, so talking to a bear was no big shake

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Been there; done that; bought the tee-shirt; outgrew it. :shock:

mike, you did not say North America, and if you meant all animals hunted, I would have to say the cape buffalo and/or elephant for me.

In North America and since you used the word "tenacity" the coastal Browns have to be included but moose just dont know their dead, it is almost funny sometimes, If you ever have to fish a dead moose out of a water hazard, the next moose you hunt, you shoot until they are down!!!!!

Europe":y97i3xtc said:

mike, you did not say North America, and if you meant all animals hunted, I would have to say the cape buffalo and/or elephant for me.

In North America and since you used the word "tenacity" the coastal Browns have to be included but moose just dont know their dead, it is almost funny sometimes, If you ever have to fish a dead moose out of a water hazard, the next moose you hunt, you shoot until they are down!!!!!

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Hear! Hear! Well said, April.

Blkram":110v8rp3 said:

As I am fond of saying,
Nothing beats a grain fed bear!
Whether it is 180, 200, 220 or 250 grains at a time! LOL

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Love it!

I obviously don't shoot enough big animals! Mostly mule deer & antelope.

"Tough" to me often means that the first shot wasn't a decisive blow, then it seems like other shots, perhaps several of them, are required.

I believe that elk are tenacious - but my small sample of two, were the results of two shots, a bull by 7mm mag/175 Nosler Partition, and a cow by 30-06/165 Nosler Ballistic Tip. Neither one took more than a few faltering steps.

My first bear was down with one shot, managed to drag himself a few feet. However I've helped out other hunters a couple of times and have seen them soak up a few shots.

I've related the grizzly story too many times here - and he took a number of shots - in a hurry. Whew!

Most, but not all, of my mule deer have gone down at the first shot. One big buck, poorly hit, took several more shots to kill. I've noticed that follow-on shots can be difficult to place well. A formerly still, or walking, animal is now moving, perhaps quickly and unpredictably. The shooter is a bit rattled as his rifle went "bang" and nothing fell over...

Antelope have gone nowhere but down after a hit from either the 30-06 or 25-06, but again, a small sample of but four animals.

Interesting stuff, and I like reading the input from our more experienced big game hunters.

Regards, Guy

In the South USA it's hogs and gators.
Deer and coyotes are easy to kill about half may run some.
Gators require a brain shot and it's a itty-bitty brain.
I've seen hogs take several shots even though the 1st shot was good.

I whacked a big Michigan 4pt( sounds like an oxymoron. I’d age it at 3 years. Hit it with a three in mechanical that double lunged and exited through the shoulder blade. Ran 160 yards before piling up. I saw the lighted mock go right at the last second, in hind site,!the arrow probably flexed hard when it penetrates the shoulder. When I found it, beautiful red bubbly red ozzing out of a nearly 4” wound on both sides. When it jumped the fence at 140 yards it made a weird sound,probably pain from the shoulder when it landed the jump...amazing. Glad I was able to watch it.

Never had to track a black beat more than a couple yards...


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April, I assume this is the thread your talking about ?

Although April is correct about the difficulty in bringing down Elephant and Buffalo, I actually would put Hippo in the same category and maybe ahead of those two. They are faster, tougher and more dangerous than folks realize.
Leopard, No, unless you wound one then all bets off. But they are initially hunted from a blind, too easy.

Europe has some very difficult animals to make stay down, Ibex can make your life difficult and interesting, but if your speaking of N. America, Moose, Cougar, Bear were challenging to put down and make stay down.

Australia, Camels can be a bit uncooperative and dangerous. South America, nothing I can think of, not Red Stag, maybe Puma

sorry, I am literally going from train to plane as we speak

Best Regards
Jamila

Wow! Like old times. Great to see you ladies posting again. You have a great deal to contribute. Even old curmudgeons such as me benefit from your participation. Good to see each of you posting.

I would say goats are the toughest on average based on hunting them myself and also guiding for them. Most die fairly easily when hit well but eventually you'll get one that just won't go down. Bears die pretty quickly but if you mess up the first shot then can absorb a lot of lead before dropping.