The Need For Iron Sights

I'm not sure if this will seem like a strange question, but I have never been afraid to show ignorance or ask strange questions. I have kind of military/law enforcement view of reliability when it comes to guns. I understand that a plinker or your fun gun doesn't need to work flawlessly, but I put priority on hunting, survival, and defensive rifles being reliable at all times, and that includes optics, which is why most military rifles have backup iron sights unless they are dedicated sniper rifles.

So here is the question. Hypothetically, lets say that you plan on bugging out for the next six months in the middle of nowhere, and you can choose one gun to bring with you. The thing that would make most sense to me is a bolt action .308 or similar chambering, but the thing that always makes me hesitant about most bolt actions, is that they tend not to have iron sights to back you up in case of optics failure. There are some, but most don't have them. But is having iron sights really necessary, or can the reputable scope brands of today rugged enough that this is not enough of a concern?

Just curious to see what some people with experience think.

Quick release rings with a ghost ring that mounts to the rear base.

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I think for the most part that if you get a quality scope with a simple reticle you would be fine but when you start adding batteries and lighted reticles is where you will run into trouble.
My bug out rifle is my M77 30-06 with a Leopold VXIII 1.5-5 and standard duplex reticle.

You could always pack a back up scope that has already been zeroed.

JD338

Shotguns aren’t a bad choice either...


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Rifles with open sights are equipped with scopes in QD rings and bases to be able to have immediate access to the back up of the open sights. While I like this option, I have to say that I have never been required to use them due to scope failure.
The mentioned option of a back up scope in rings, already zeroed, is also a great idea for added insurance.
Although, there are times when just taking the scope off to keep practiced in the use of the open sights or optional peep sight is also fun, and keeps these skills sharp.
I do have some lever action rifles that I have not put scopes on for the simple reason that they are just plain fun to shoot and hunt with, without a scope.
For just one rifle for all uses, I would definitely prefer for it to be equipped with open sights, and a scope mounted in QD rings and bases, and a second scope already zeroed in rings as an extra back up measure.

I don't hypothetically bug out to the middle of nowhere, but I live in the middle of nowhere year round and hunt hard in the mountains for several weeks to a couple of months every year. The rifle gets drug through the mountains, in and out of aircraft, rafts, boats, ATVs, pickups and sloshed through marshes, rocks, glaciers, frozen, rained on, and every other thing you can think of.

I think the need for back up iron sights is largely overstated. I broke a scope one time in fifteen years but it took a, 80' fall down a scree chute with a rifle strapped to my back to do it. I got broken in the process so the scope was the least of my concerns.

Modern rifle scopes are incredibly reliable and the one rifle I have with back up irons isn't even particularly useful with them since they are too low to use without completely smashing my face into the stock at an odd angle. A stock with a low enough comb with irons will prevent a good cheek weld with a scope.

I felt differently 20 years ago, largely through the influence of writers from 50s and 60s...but in 2020 a good quality scope is probably about as reliable as it gets.

Well, it's pretty easy to get a bolt action rifle with iron sights. Take a look at Ruger's lineup of bolt action rifles for instance.

Or, it's not that big a deal to have sights added to a bolt action. Remington used to put useful front and rear sights on their rifles too - and they can still be fitted with sights. I have one older Remington, 1970's, that the receiver was factory drilled and tapped for a Williams or Lyman receiver sight. That used to be common.

But... In decades of hunting, I've had very few problems with scopes. I started using scopes in the 1970's and they've all worked just fine. One, on my SWAT rifle, had to be sent back to Leupold to have the windage adjustment fixed. I popped another scope on there to make sure I was "on" in case of a callout. Not necessary, Leupold had the other scope back in my hands, fixed for free, within 10 days.

Also had a career in the Marines and another in law enforcement, so I understand where you're coming from. By all means, if you prefer sights on your "bug out" rifle, get them.

I think it would be tough to beat say a Ruger Scout in 308, or a Ruger Guide Gun in 30-06 for an all around type of bolt action. The Scout comes with a detachable magazine as well.

Regards, Guy

Oh - and my Marlin 45-70 lever action has a scope in Quick Detach rings as well as factory sights.

And both of my Ruger Number One rifles have scopes in Ruger Rings which work rather well for QD rings if you have a sturdy screwdriver handy. They even return to zero pretty well. And they've both got iron sights. Admittedly, they're single shot rifles, and probably not what you're seeking for a bug-out rifle. But they're mighty fine hunting rifles.

And I recently sold a terrific Model 70 Winchester that had iron sights as well as QD scope rings.

There was a period when I was a Marine, that our STA platoon snipers had Remington rifles with the 10x scope as well as a set of sights. The sights were in the box, rarely actually put on the rifles. I had a STA platoon for two years and none of the scopes ever went bad on us. Those old 10x Unertle's were tough as nails.

Yes, you can have it all. Scope and sights, and a bolt action.

Blkram":3gubrgo6 said:

I do have some lever action rifles that I have not put scopes on for the simple reason that they are just plain fun to shoot and hunt with, without a scope.
For just one rifle for all uses, I would definitely prefer for it to be equipped with open sights, and a scope mounted in QD rings and bases, and a second scope already zeroed in rings as an extra back up measure.

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I agree Gil

I dont scope either the Winchester or Browning, but in my case I just dont feel the need to do so, plus the 71 is not really scope friendly anyway. For me, not using one is just one more thing I dont need to concern myself with. I do use a scope on the 275 H/H for sheep hunts however

Thankful Otter":3m6mm482 said:

Blkram":3m6mm482 said:

I do have some lever action rifles that I have not put scopes on for the simple reason that they are just plain fun to shoot and hunt with, without a scope.
For just one rifle for all uses, I would definitely prefer for it to be equipped with open sights, and a scope mounted in QD rings and bases, and a second scope already zeroed in rings as an extra back up measure.

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I agree Gil

I don't scope either the Winchester or Browning, but in my case I just don't feel the need to do so, plus the 71 is not really scope friendly anyway. For me, not using one is just one more thing I don't need to concern myself with. I do use a scope on the 275 H/H for sheep hunts however

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Thanks for your insight Cheyenne.
Back in the late 1960's I bought a set of Weaver scope flip mounts because the gun rag writers said I needed them so I could use my irons incase the scope took a dump. The funny thing is the flip mount took a dump before the scope did. Tried the see thru mounts also and could not get use to having my chin resting on the comb of the stock.
Low magnification variable or fixed power scope that you can shoot with both eyes open is about as good as you can get as an alternative to open sights and they are usually the most rugged and dependable. They are also great when you have to take a shot at a running target and have one sighting point to concentrate on while leading your target.
I can't use open sights they way I use to due to old age and old eyes that require glasses to see like I did when I was 20. I do have a jewelers iris that fits on my glasses to use open sighted pistols for target shooting so the sights are clear but this is not an option for a hunting rifle.

I have a set of angled flip ups on my 300 BLK AR upper and that is the only rifle that has them to be honest. I've not had a QUALITY scope crap out in a very long time.

I have 5 rifles that are iron sighted only, but just because iron only fits the age of those rifles. I enjoy the heck out of shooting them that way and have killed a fair number of deer over the yrs with open sights. But I agree with a lot of the above posts.....scopes have never caused me issues. BUT, I'm hunting not surviving. A busted scope would likely cause some choice words, but switching rifles or another scope and I'm back in business. Not so from a purely survival rifle scenario. In that scenario I think a person should at least have the option of iron sights as a back up.

Thanks all for the replies. I think this gives me a better balanced view of things based on your experiences.

Guess I'm lucky. Have had several 2-7 Leupolds. Never had a problem with any of them, and whether in a thicket, across the living room or at 200 yards I have never had difficulty getting a quick clear sight picture at 2x. But then I'm not doing what you are doing...Again, just lucky maybe. Let us know what you decide works for you. CL

ShadeTree":bdf6ysj6 said:

I have 5 rifles that are iron sighted only, but just because iron only fits the age of those rifles..

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I agree there...I've got a few rifles that are iron sights only- a Marlin lever gun, a target 22 with dual aperture sights and a sporter 22 with nifty sliding tangent sight that is the bee's knees. I enjoy shooting them and a scope would be out of place on them.

I'll just leave Y'All with this. Since the 1950's the Marines have had to qualify, every year, out to 500 yds, with a peep sighted rifle. Hunting conditions DO NOT equate to SHTF/Combat conditions. If you're not a Vet you'll probably not get it.

Weird idea, as a back up, I wonder if some flip up AR-15 iron sights could do in a pinch. The scope base is a pretty short sight radius, but maybe that would work. Not sure what level of accuracy that would permit.

I know I'm coming into this a bit late, but I had the idea to offer a few thoughts.

My wife has a Gunsite Scout which came with a very good set of sights, and of course has the rail on the front for a long eye relief scope. Also, it takes ACIS pattern mags just fine.

Personally, I've got a levergun with a scope and a few without (I need to buy more leverguns).

Before taking off to the middle of nowhere in a crisis, try heading out there and taking a look around. Make the decision for yourself if you really need backup irons. Lots of people, including me, have lots of different experiences, but I doubt any of us have been to the exact place you're thinking of, with a scoped only rifle, for the length of time you're thinking. Who knows, you may decide to go somewhere else.

I have a 98 mauser with ghost ring rear sight, and front base with micro red dot. That would probably be my bug out, but I have several rifles with back up irons.
Ruger african 275 rigby has backup irons. Mauser 416 has leupold QD rings and express sights, ruger #1 416 with backup sights and Alaskan arms QD rings.

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