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 Post subject: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:33 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 14886
Location: Washington State
Not a new photo, just an older photo of my well-worn 1997 vintage 45 Kimber 1911:
Image

Was at the range over the weekend training a four-man security team. We started at modest range with the "one hole drill" - which is just shooting five shots into one ragged hole in the paper target. Well, only the old 45 Kimber managed that. BTW, I was cheating and using 185 grain Nosler match grade ammo.

Three of the guys were using various compact 9mm pistols, one had a tiny Ruger 380 pistol, which he did amazingly well with given it's diminutive size.

We did a lot of other defensive shooting drills and eventually I took them back to 25 yards, which to them seemed an incredible distance with a pistol. Set up my steel IPSC style target and had them take shots at it. Honestly, they did pretty well, hitting the silhouette pretty regularly. Then I put shot after shot on the 4" x 4" head of the silhouette target, with that ol' beat up Kimber. :grin:

I was showing off a little, but also wanted them to see what is possible with a self-defense handgun, and a good amount of practice. Not sure, but I may have convinced at least a couple of them to at least try a bigger, higher quality firearm, something easier to shoot well.

Where I do praise them tremendously.... They're four good men, seeking training to better protect their church & congregation. I have no doubt about the courage of each of them. Now, they've got some skills to go with that courage!

Each went through a few hundred rounds, likely more ammo than they'd ever shot in a single training session. They came away with much higher confidence, and a whole new set of skills. I taught them all a series of defensive pistol drills that they can continue to practice on their own. Not once that day did we stress speed, I just told them that the speed will come. The more they practice, the faster and smoother they'll get. They actually made some great progress in just a few hours.

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:08 pm
Posts: 20178
Location: Cedar Springs, MI
Good stuff Guy. Those Kimbers are like a fine wine, they get better with age!

JD338

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Speed sells but Accuracy kills.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:01 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 1321
Guy, you have me wondering.

I never thought to conceal my Kimber 1911. I have been concealing the SigP229, mainly wanted to stick with 9mm as the others are shooting 9mm.

I’ve never put the Kimber against the P229 to see which I can shoot better.

Looks like something to figure out.
another reason I need to go to the range.... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:17 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:23 pm
Posts: 2671
Location: Echo, Oregon
Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:08 pm
Posts: 20178
Location: Cedar Springs, MI
FWIW, when my wife and oldest daughter took the CPL class, they both struggled with the live fire portion when using my Ruger LC9. The instructor gave me that look and I approached him and said I had my Kimber Tactical Pro II 45 ACP in the truck. He told me to assist my daughter.
Danielle was reluctant but shot the first round and said "This isn't bad at all Dad!" and proceeded to put two magazines into one ragged hole about 1" right of the x at 7 yards! The instructor saw that smiling and said she passed, now go help Sue. Sue pretty much did the same and both passed.
Yeah, those Kimber triggers are nice!
If I know there could be a bad situation, like a movie theater shopping mall, etc. I always take my Kimber.

JD338

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Speed sells but Accuracy kills.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 14886
Location: Washington State
Ya, it's so much easier to shoot well with a good size, quality handgun.

Those little compact handguns, pocket guns, belly guns... They carry well, but dang, they're difficult to shoot well. A while back one student of mine tried the little 9mm Kahr and asked "Does that thing always feel like it's trying to jump out of your hand?"

Yes, yes it does. :grin:

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:56 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:55 pm
Posts: 8
I have an older Kimber 1911 custom target in stainless. This pistol is very accurate. Knocking down the falling plates at 50yds is ridiculously easy with this pistol. From a ransom rest it will put a magazine full in a silver dollar size ragged hole at 25yds with match ammo. Back when I was still competing I fired five rounds at a B27 target at 100yds standing unsupported. Put 3 rounds in the head, 1 in the neck and the 5th missing the head by an inch or so. My current everyday carry gun is a Springfield XDS in 45acp. A friend has a 14"X14" steel plate hung at the 100yd line at the range on his farm. I was able to ring the steel 4 shots out of a 7 round mag. Had my son watching through a spotting scope to see where the rounds were going and took a couple of shots to find out where to hold. Bellyguns/pocket pistols can be pretty accurate too. Just don't ask me to repeat the performance on demand, perfect conditions, no wind and just the right amount of coffee those mornings along with a wee bit of luck were involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:09 pm
Posts: 4785
Location: Western Montana
That's excellent Guy. We sure know that your own thoughts can get in your head and drastically effect your shooting. Confidence builds a confident mindset. Once they start shooting better it just improves from there for the most part. I like to load a persons magazine without them watching and put a dummy round in, then a live round, then a dummy, then two live rounds. You get the point, mix it up, then tell them to shoot very deliberate groups just like you were doing. You sure can tell when they are having anticipation problems and it seems like that goes a long ways in improving their shooting also. I know I do it periodically for myself when I'm practicing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFoM8S3JwZU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

Okay these guys are something else. It's fun to watch them show-off.

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Boone & Crockett Club / Montana Bow Hunters Association


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:23 pm
Posts: 2671
Location: Echo, Oregon
So cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:56 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:09 pm
Posts: 4785
Location: Western Montana
Guy I just have a feeling that you are an excellent teacher. Seems like you have a lot of patience and an excellent teaching demeanor. I think it comes across a lot in how you write about things and the words you use. Nice job again.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:56 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:09 pm
Posts: 4785
Location: Western Montana
Guy I just have a feeling that you are an excellent teacher. Seems like you have a lot of patience and an excellent teaching demeanor. I think it comes across a lot in how you write about things and the words you use. Nice job again.

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Boone & Crockett Club / Montana Bow Hunters Association


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:25 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 14886
Location: Washington State
Well thank you David. I try to rein in that ol' USMC bark when I'm helping folks learn something.

:grin:


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 4:51 pm 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:05 am
Posts: 808
A Friend of mine said when He was in the Airforce they were getting qualified with .45 Colt pistols and everyone was complaining of how they were all shot out, and all wore out pistols and the Instructor told them to pick out the worst one of the bunch and then He shot it at a target, a whole magazine full into one ragged hole. True Story


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy, speed, protecting the flock..
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:16 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 14886
Location: Washington State
1100 Remington Man wrote:
A Friend of mine said when He was in the Airforce they were getting qualified with .45 Colt pistols and everyone was complaining of how they were all shot out, and all wore out pistols and the Instructor told them to pick out the worst one of the bunch and then He shot it at a target, a whole magazine full into one ragged hole. True Story


USMC, Quantico Virginia, I was with a bunch of brand new 2nd Lieutenants and we were using 45's for the first time... At least I'd done some shooting prior to the Marines and knew a little about shooting.

One fellow was complaining that his well-worn 45 wasn't any good. Uh oh...

A Captain (what the Marines called a "LDO" or Limited Duty Officer) asked for the 45, then put 5 shots right in the center of the target in a nice, tight cluster. Handed the pistol back to the Lieutenant saying "Yup, that gun's no good." Then walked calmly down the line...

It was really hard to keep a straight face. :grin:

Those guns were pretty danged beat up, but they shot okay. Until sights and such would fall off them.

Guy


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