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 Post subject: Self Defense Ammunition
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Location: Cedar Springs, MI
I have chosen the Federal Tactical 45 ACP 230 gr HST loads as my carry load in my Kimber Tactical Pro II. This load clocks 805 fps in the 4" barrel. I recovered this bullet in water filled milk jugs, sticking out the back side of jug #3.
The bullet weighed 229.9 grs and measures .906" expanded at its widest point. Pretty awesome bullet!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:06 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:46 am
Posts: 850
Location: FLA
JD that is some expansion. Do you have any idea who makes the bullet for Federal? Also, where did you find that particular brand of ammo? I've been using 200grain XTP's and found pretty good expansion in gelatin blocks. On another note, Last week some Speer 200 grain gold dot's showed up in Midway. I placed an order for three boxes on friday 6/5 and receive the bullets monday afternoon. The box was somewhat crushed and someone had taken the time to use clear packing tape to support the crushed corner, but, that was after they had removed one of the boxes. I called Midway and they credited me but I'm thinking about going to my local PO in order to file a loss report. At least it might get someone's attention.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 am 
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big rifle man

Sorry to hear of your loss. I would go to the PO and file.

Yes, impressive load for sure. I bought 2 boxes from AmmunitionToGo last year, $28.00 per box. Now its hard to find and close to $50.00 per box.
Federal also offers it in +P and a bonded core version. What I have is standard HST.

I want to get a couple more boxes so I have it on hand. I hope I never have to use if for its intended purpose but I know it will do the job if needed.

JD338

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:30 pm 

Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:54 pm
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Looks like good results with the Federal ammo.Since I like to roll my own, I am using 230 grain Rem Gold Sabers with 6 grains of Unique.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Location: Cedar Springs, MI
Just keep in mind that using hand loads in a carry gun for self defense will bring on a lot of legal recourse and will be attacked upon by the bag guys (or family) lawyer.
It will be perceived that the bad guy had a bad childhood and really didn't mean any harm to you, but your vicious reloads were concocted to harm my little bad guy.....
Something to be aware of.

JD338

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:51 pm 

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JD338 wrote:
Just keep in mind that using hand loads in a carry gun for self defense will bring on a lot of legal recourse and will be attacked upon by the bag guys (or family) lawyer.
It will be perceived that the bad guy had a bad childhood and really didn't mean any harm to you, but your vicious reloads were concocted to harm my little bad guy.....
Something to be aware of.

JD338


Good point, and I usually do use factory ammo in the guns I carry.
I have about 500 of the Gold Sabers for .45ACP, 9MM, and .40S&W. I will probably just load them up and put them in a military can to have on hand.The bullets are too good and expensive to waste on targets.I like to have plenty of ammo on hand ,just in case. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:10 pm 
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.405 wrote:
JD338 wrote:
Just keep in mind that using hand loads in a carry gun for self defense will bring on a lot of legal recourse and will be attacked upon by the bag guys (or family) lawyer.
It will be perceived that the bad guy had a bad childhood and really didn't mean any harm to you, but your vicious reloads were concocted to harm my little bad guy.....
Something to be aware of.

JD338


Good point, and I usually do use factory ammo in the guns I carry.
I have about 500 of the Gold Sabers for .45ACP, 9MM, and .40S&W. I will probably just load them up and put them in a military can to have on hand.The bullets are too good and expensive to waste on targets.I like to have plenty of ammo on hand ,just in case. :wink:


I agree, the Golden Sabers are good bullets, a shame to just shoot targets with. Maybe you could use as a carry load when out in the woods.

Its frustrating that the good guys can get caught up in the legal system, we just have to be careful. GOD forbid, if I am ever put down that path, I would have to explain in the court of law that the Federal Tactical HST is used by law enforcement agencies across the US and some of my LE friends recommended that this is the ammunition to carry for SD.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:45 pm 

Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:54 pm
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My though is, you can never have too many 1911's and you can never have too much premium quality ammo for them. :grin:
I am a believer.I have shot the rest, but I only want the best. :wink:
It may be almost 100 years old, but I have yet to find anything close.
One of John's very best!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:59 pm 
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.405

What is your carry gun?

I carry a Kimber Tactical Pro II, holster is a HBE DC Tuckable by Eric Larson in Salt Lake City, UT. Very comfortable to wear.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:20 pm 

Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:54 pm
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I have Kimber stainless Ultra Carry.I also keep a North American Arms ..22LR .Always watch the hands, because that is what kills. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:36 am 
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Location: Cheyenne, WY
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:28 pm 

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The 1911 is where I have spent a good bit of time shooting over the past twenty five years.I love em.My first love use to be a .44 mag revolver. :lol:
My friends are always looking for the latest hollow point construction for their
9mm.Trust me, I am happy with hard ball in my .45ACP :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:46 am
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Location: FLA
Totally agree with JD in regards to carrying factory ammo in your personal defense gun. If you have a friendly medical examiner it helps even more. Most of my practicing (and I'm sure everybody else) is with hardball or lead but you do need to so some shooting with loads that will be equal to what you carry. I do remember a few incidents a number of years ago where handloads were used with great effect and no problems but that was in the good old days and things have definitely changed since then.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:50 pm 
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big rifle man wrote:
Totally agree with JD in regards to carrying factory ammo in your personal defense gun. If you have a friendly medical examiner it helps even more. Most of my practicing (and I'm sure everybody else) is with hardball or lead but you do need to so some shooting with loads that will be equal to what you carry. I do remember a few incidents a number of years ago where handloads were used with great effect and no problems but that was in the good old days and things have definitely changed since then.


I thoroughly concur!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:15 pm 

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:21 pm
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Location: Idaho
In addition to factory ammo, my gunsmith would strong advise against doing any trigger work for a handgun slated for self-defense use. His reasoning is, the attorney working against you will say that had the gun not been modified (i.e. lightened trigger) you probably wouldn't have shot his client. You get the drift, they are going to try to make it your fault for shooting that person whether they were breaking the law or not, you're the bad guy/girl. Of course if your in a state that passed the "Castle Doctrine" law, you are much safer from being sued or arrested for defending yourself. Those that live in CA, you're just plain screwed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:45 pm 

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I looked for that ammo and I think it is going to be really hard to find right now.I may have to buy some Remington Factory load 230 grain Golden Sabers for now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm 
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The only place I ever found it was ATG.

JD338

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:41 pm 

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Looking at 12ga buckshot for HD, I really don't care much for 00. There is not enough of them. A man might walk through that pattern at 50 yds. Let him try it with #4 Buck. :wink: We have killed deer at 60 yds with the #4 buck in a 3" mag with a full choke.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:56 pm 

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.405 wrote:
Looking at 12ga buckshot for HD, I really don't care much for 00. There is not enough of them. A man might walk through that pattern at 50 yds. Let him try it with #4 Buck. :wink: We have killed deer at 60 yds with the #4 buck in a 3" mag with a full choke.


I prefer to use my sporting clay ammo - 12g, 7/8oz of 7.5 bird shot. I guarrantee a burgler will not walk through that and I don't have to worry about it going through the walls and hurting a neighbor or family.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:36 am 
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Richracer1 wrote:
.405 wrote:
Looking at 12ga buckshot for HD, I really don't care much for 00. There is not enough of them. A man might walk through that pattern at 50 yds. Let him try it with #4 Buck. :wink: We have killed deer at 60 yds with the #4 buck in a 3" mag with a full choke.


I prefer to use my sporting clay ammo - 12g, 7/8oz of 7.5 bird shot. I guarrantee a burgler will not walk through that and I don't have to worry about it going through the walls and hurting a neighbor or family.


++1

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:06 am 

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I live way out in the country , no houses to worry about. When people show up out here they are usually armed with deer rifles, or shotguns.They broke into my neighbors house armed with a shotgun. They stole his car and wallet.
People will sometimes wander around the out buildings trying to steal stuff.
In the city, I agree, birdshot would be best.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:12 am 
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I live in the country too but I think at least the first couple rounds (for in the home) should be bird shot. I'm thinking of the safety of my family members.

In a rural situation out side, 45 ACP up close and high power rifle for anyting beyond handgun range.

JD338

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 pm 

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Outside at night, I feel more in control with my 12ga. with #4 buck.Once the adrenaline starts to flow I might not be able to hit anything with a handgun of rifle.Not at night anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:32 pm 

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With a 12 gauge, I split the difference, #1 buck. Typically 30 pellets, heavy enough to penetrate, even at moderate range, and enough pellets that the BG will not step through the pattern.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:26 pm 

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POP wrote:
Here is my baby!


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Your baby is so cute, I will post my favorite weapon next time.

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