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 Post subject: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 13196
Location: Washington State
I've got a nice, accurate .300 WSM Model 70 that I don't use often. It's a tad on the heavy side, but not too bad.

Image

Shows a strong preference for 210 gr Berger VLD's at 2800+ fps via H4350. Not half bad with some other powders either. I've used it at the range, where it has turned in honest 1/2 MOA groups at 300 and beyond. I've carried it on a few hunts, but have never taken game with it

Worked up the 210 VLD load maybe 8-10 years ago. Have been looking at that rifle a lot lately, thinking about dusting it off for use in the next season or two.

Is the 210 Berger still a good choice, or is that newer 215 Hybrid a better solution? Or perhaps a heavy Accubond? It didn't shoot the 200 gr Accubonds very well...

Thinking mule deer and elk here. Perhaps black bear.

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:53 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 713
Guy, I am in the same boat as you are in choosing which Berger to use, still have a new .300 on the way sometime this week or next week. I ordered the Berger 210 VLD, plus the 212 ELD-X which has a higher BC than the 210 VLD. I wanted to slap myself because I did not order the 215 Hybrid with a tad higher BC and since it is easier to tune with its secant / tangent combo unlike the VLD which has a secant ogive and finicky to tune. The ELD-X should be easy to tune with its tangent ogive. It's a wait and see when I get the rifle and test them at the range with some RL 25.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:12 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 32500
Location: Northern British Columbia
Interesting question, Guy. My 300 WSM does not particularly like the 200 grain AB. Since I have an excellent load with 200 grain Sierra GK, I never played with the Bergers in this rifle. In fact, I just checked, and verified that I don't have any heavier Bergers in my inventory. In my experience with other cartridges, however, I'd be inclined to lean toward the 210 grain VLD hunting bullet. I can't see it letting you down. Just my "guess."

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:21 am 
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Posts: 13196
Location: Washington State
TackDriver - did you see the poor results from the Hornady ELD on elk posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34658

I wonder if those bullets were just too brittle, something in the production process maybe? After reading that, I crossed them off my list for now. Perhaps they'll be improved later, as suggested by Dr. Mike in that thread.

Mike, ya, I can't see the 210 Berger doing a bad job on game - I've heard and read too many success stories. And since my rifle does shoot them well. Ya, I'm satisfied with 1/2 MOA off the bipod at 300+ yards...

Never tried the Hybrid design...

I'm very pleased with what I did with my .30-06 this past season, but there were two potential shots, which I passed on, that I probably would have taken if I'd had this rifle with me instead...

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:10 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 32500
Location: Northern British Columbia
FWIW, one of the gunsmiths has used a 7mm-08 loaded with 140 grain VLDs to take a couple of grizzlies! His work is slowly changing some of my concerns about the VLD. A 210 grain VLD? I'd have no problem whatsoever. If a 200 grain Sierra GK works in my 300 WSM, (and it works quite well for me), there is no doubt that a 210 grain VLD will give results that area at least as good.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:21 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:16 am
Posts: 713
Guy Miner wrote:
TackDriver - did you see the poor results from the Hornady ELD on elk posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34658

I wonder if those bullets were just too brittle, something in the production process maybe? After reading that, I crossed them off my list for now. Perhaps they'll be improved later, as suggested by Dr. Mike in that thread.
Guy


Wow, elk required 4 shots with the 212 ELD X to bring it down with a .300 Mag, not once but twice. I may just use those bullets to break in the barrel once the .300 Mag rifle gets here and save the better bullets ( Berger / GameKing ) for testing and hunting. Since I have never hunted elk, hopefully one day, I hope the 212 ELD-X works on deer sized game due to thin skin. The bullets may be too soft to hold together in magnum rifles. The 178 ELD-X should hold up good in my .308 since its a slow moving projectile. Thanks for the heads up Guy. (y)

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:27 am 
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Location: Washington State
You're welcome - and ya - that's what got me... Four shots on elk, not once but twice... Dang. Something is wrong with those bullets. Fragmenting so quickly...

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:48 am 
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Location: Anchorage AK
What about the 210 LRAB?


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 am 
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Thebear_78 wrote:
What about the 210 LRAB?


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I tried the 200 gr Accubond some years ago, and this rifle simply didn't shoot that bullet well. I've never tried the long-range version.

The regular ol' Accubond appealed to me because it has a very good BC, and is a tough, big game bullet... But it didn't work out.

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:05 am
Posts: 3
I used the 210 VLDH this past season to take a mature whitetail buck at 82 yards.

3150 FPS muzzle velocity.

Image

300 RUM. Beanland Custom Rifles build. And the bolt is on the correct side. :)

Nice gun you have Guy. What scope is on it?


Last edited by Buttermilk412 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Posts: 32500
Location: Northern British Columbia
Good looking buck, Buttermilk. I would imagine that a 210 grain VLDH launched from your RUM was just enough to drop that fellow. (y) Your buck looks to be in great shape! Congratulations.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:56 pm
Posts: 2239
Location: Idaho
With the long mag box in the model 70's you could probably run the 215's without issue. They tend to run faster because of the shorter bearing surface too. The 210's will get the job done as well though.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Posts: 13196
Location: Washington State
Buttermilk412 wrote:

Nice gun you have Guy. What scope is on it?


Enough gun for whitetail at 80 yards? :grin: Congrats!

The scope is a 4.5-14x Leupold I bought a good 10 years ago, and had converted with M1 knobs. I'm pretty happy with it. Nothing fancy.

Guy


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:42 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:05 am
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[/quote]

Enough gun for whitetail at 80 yards? :grin: Congrats! [/quote]

Just barely... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 609
Location: CO
Both have worked well for me on game, I've gone to the 215 Hybrid because I get higher velocity with the same powder charge, probably due to the shorter bearing surface, the BC is significantly higher, and you don't have to chase your rifling as aggressively with the 215's as you do with the 210's.

You can't go wrong with either in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Posts: 1945
Location: Albany, Oregon
The 215's have a slightly thicker jacket, .003, and are supposed to penetrate a little deeper before doing their thing. I have ran some through my 300 Rum and at 200 yards the groups are very impressive. I'm hoping to get out soon and see what they do out to 1000 yards.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:21 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:22 pm
Posts: 434
Location: Washington State, USA
The only game I have ever seen taken with a VLD was a huge cow elk taken with a 105 Grain Berger VLD Hunting out of a 6MM Remington Ackley Improved. The elk didn't even go 5 feet, just stood there for a second and tipped over. The terminal performance of that little bullet was really impressive. Like a bomb went off inside. I bet the 210 or 215 would do amazing for what you wanted. Anecdotally, that load, and my 168 Bergers out of my 7x57 AI, as well as a friends 168 VLD Bergers out of his 7mm Remington Mag all like a 0.010" jam. All three will shoot 1/4 MOA, but all three have custom Kreiger barrels and are tuned up pretty well. Just out of curiosity, how far off are you with your current load?

Todd

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:43 am
Posts: 52
Location: Northeast Louisiana
This one is highly accurate with the 185 Berger VLD or the 210! Plumb dang boring to shoot!

ImageBeanland06 by Sharps Man, on Flickr


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:43 pm
Posts: 609
Location: CO
TackDriver284 wrote:
Guy Miner wrote:
TackDriver - did you see the poor results from the Hornady ELD on elk posted here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34658

I wonder if those bullets were just too brittle, something in the production process maybe? After reading that, I crossed them off my list for now. Perhaps they'll be improved later, as suggested by Dr. Mike in that thread.
Guy


Wow, elk required 4 shots with the 212 ELD X to bring it down with a .300 Mag, not once but twice. I may just use those bullets to break in the barrel once the .300 Mag rifle gets here and save the better bullets ( Berger / GameKing ) for testing and hunting. Since I have never hunted elk, hopefully one day, I hope the 212 ELD-X works on deer sized game due to thin skin. The bullets may be too soft to hold together in magnum rifles. The 178 ELD-X should hold up good in my .308 since its a slow moving projectile. Thanks for the heads up Guy. (y)


I wouldn't have any hesitation to use the ELD on deer, I really think they'd put them down hard and fast after seeing how they performed on those cows. The only real downside to the ELD on deer is its gonna be a nasty wound and you'll probably lose more meat than you would with a ballistic tip.

I'm hoping Mike was right in that Hornady will address the issues I saw with them on elk this year, I sent them an email with the results, haven't heard anything back from them though.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:43 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:31 pm
Posts: 2913
Location: Echo, OR
Guy, I have always loved that rifle of yours. It just looks like a lot of fun.

I have zero experience with any .308 bullet. But I have shot bucks at various ranges (80 yards-627yards) with both the 140 VLD and the 143 ELDX. All of the bucks that either of my 6.5 SAUMs have shot in the last two years have been with one or the other of these two bullets. All of them with the exception of one (bad shot placement by a buddy) dropped in their tracks. All the ELDX exited, and only one of the two bucks taken with the VLD had an exit. The one that didn't was quartering hard at 451 yards. I have yet to shoot an elk with either for comparison.
I have taken a bear and two elk with the 250 VLD out of a 338 Rum. Very impressive.

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison to the topic at hand, but has been my experience with both styles of bullets.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:04 pm
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Location: central washington
shoot what they like. accuracy is final (y)

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 Post subject: Re: 210 gr VLD or ???
PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:54 am 
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Posts: 630
Location: Clearwater Region - Idaho
Guy,
In my 2 - 300WSMs I've got a load using the 190gn LRAB with RL26 and am quite happy with it. I have not taken any game as of yet - maybe this year. I too didn't have good luck with the 200 AB in my Sako 85 300WSM but the 190 LRAB shot very well. If your interested in trying some 190 LRAB - PM me.
Bill

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