Africa-Two rifles-one load for each rifle

A lot depends on who you Book with. There are many ( one notorious one I won't name) carries a 600 Nitro double and sells videos of him "shooting the clients animals"...whether the client wants him to or not! He will purposely provoke a "charge" and floor the critter with that 600 Nitro ( like a handful of shot on a bullfrog) and then quietly, very dramatically in a close up explain to the video audience "just why" these animals ( Lion, Buff, Hippo, etc) are soooo dangerous and how lucky it was that HE was able to save the day! So, if you book with him, all you need , for your own memories, is a nice 'customized" bolt gun in any good deer rifle caliber for the Kudu and such. Another matching bolt gun in 9.3x62 with 286 Noslers or similar. The lighter rifle will be fun to use on foot and the 9.3 is a good self defense weapon if you happen to walk up on a mean critter. You won't have to worry about "killing" the game, Super bwana will do that for you! Ha
If you Book with a real Outfitter/Hunter, a 9.3x62 will work swell for the antelope/zebra and a 458 Winmag with good loads will do just fine on the bigger stuff and not beat you up bad. If you like, a good 416 Mag is awesome, though I find them a bit "brisk" in recoil. Myself, I would want a custom .404 jeffry ....recoils like a .375, hits like a 458! have a ball!

I've got a buddy that uses a 270 for everything up to Eland. I believe he usually culls 50-100 animals a year on his place. I think he used a 375 Ackley with 250 BBCs and 250 TTSX's for buffalo and similar animals. So I'd be A-Ok rolling with a 375 of some sort and a 270/7mm as a little gun with good Bullets. I don't think I have a Africa legal rifle, all of mine stop at the .358 unless you count the 45-70 :mrgreen:

A 375 Weatherby ( Ackley, same, same) with a 270X is just awesome! I have a deceased friend who had the opportunity to hunt in Zimbabwe a couple years before he died. He too a Mod 70 Express in 375 H&H with handloaded 300 TSX. he killed a couple of elephant culls and a Leopard, among assorted antelope. He felt it was just fine.

Gentlemen,

In an attempt to reinvent the wheel, several 375's are now available, but the H and H ( Belted or Flanged ) is still one of the most popular calibers in Africa. The 270 and 300 grain bullets are the most popular and their are several good ones manufactured. One would be hard pressed to come up wth a better all round ( D.G. and P.G ) caliber. It will not beat you up, ammo is available everywhere, it is easy to hold on or return to target, and it covers all game being hunted very nicely.

If one wants to move up, again without beating yourself up, ammo readily available, and can be used for all game hunted the 404 Jeff and 450/400 works very nicely.

I personally prefer a double when hunting D.G.

Guy, there is nothing wrong with using only the 375 H & H. We have had people bring two 375 H & H to the hunt.

Scotty, You are correct, in fact we often use the 6.5 x 55 when culling---but---someone is always with us with a larger caliber, we dont worry about wasting an entire day tracking a wounded animal because we do not have a time restraint, and if we should lose him, we dont have to pay without something to show for it. It is for those reasons we recommend something 300 or larger for P.G hunts, except for the smallest of P.G.

Guy, Charles. Mum is in Argentina, so hunting Africa with her right now isn't going to be possible. Charlee is still in Africa, but as you know Charles, her business and planes are up for sale, as she intends to return to Alaska to manage her grandparents estate.-----However; my father tells me he intends to return to the farm to see me and wants to hunt lion again with a muzzleloader. I will try to find out when that is and maybe that would work for you.
Besides Dad would be more fun than mum anyway, as mum hunts HARD and dad is more laid back.

Best Regards

Jamila

like scotty I dont have a dangerous game rifle.

I would take my 340 Weatherby for plains game and would love to buy a 450/400 double for dangerous game.

Actually I would be content to take my 300 and 340 weatherby and only hunt the plains game animals that he will be hunting

Dewey, what would your Big 7 choice be for hunting Africa. Just curious, thanks

Well years ago alot of guys that hunted with us in Alaska liked to hunt Africa, so lots of storys were told...... The 300H&H and the 375 H&H were the two calibers that seamed to always be spoke of the most,in controlled feed rifles, as the top choices by knowledgeable hunters.
The inherent nature of the profile of the cases, certainly earned them the reputation as being less likely to cause feeding problems.
Why a Leopard that weighes approximately 125lb in males and less in a female ,would require more than the camp rifle? (6.5x55) would be a mystery to me.........
But then folks wanting to shoot a 150lb Black Bear with 300gr bonded bullets still buffalo's me, when a 150gr Corelokt would actually work much better!
I realize people like to believe a 50lb Wolverine may require atleast 300RUM to dispatch because it is soooo
Furious......... However we found one well placed shot from the Colt Woodsman quieted them down in a trap everytime......
Leopard charges from the storys we set thru: Were usually
Handled by the PH; via "shotguns with buckshot" after the hunters flubed it up; from memory........ A 375 loaded with a heavy bullet; certain to shoot right straight thru ANY 125lb animal would probably
Be one of the poorest choices possible, considering it would likely transfer "almost nothing" into the Leopard?
Its very possible I am all mixed up on this, but I would sure
Like to try the biggest toughest Leopard; that ever walked in Africa, with just one 130gr cartridge, in my .270; and see If he got to eat me.............
I would be willing to bet my life, that he couldnt.......

E, I'd back that statement up!

I still believe today's Bullets have made a lot of what's needed for hunting game much different that 50 years ago. I think we all get caught up in the cartridge rather than what's actually doing the killing.

If the country laws requires a .375 for leopard,well I would use something on the order of a 235 gr Speer or 250 gr Sierra. No need for a bullet that works on big stuff like buffalo.

Interesting conversation about leopard...Boddington has written a lot about it and he agrees with you guys- the average deer rifle is a much better tool than a DG rifle for turning the lights out quickly and that buckshot will stop a charge better than a big rifle.

Of all the DG species, leopard might be the only one that'd interest me apart from buffalo.

Earle,

The "minimum" is different in each country. In South Africa it is different in each province, with most provinces having no minimum. The Ph's and most hunters prefer and hope common sense is used when selecting the caliber of rifle in which one wants to use, But, yes Cheyenne tells me Polar Bear have been hunted with a 22 and everyone knows about Bell and his elephants. There have been more Leopards killed with calibers under 375 than 375 and over. And yes GSC, Norma, Swift, Northfork, Woodleigh, Barnes, Nosler now makes excellent bullets, bullets that do make a difference, this is a a fact. But I have never know a PH that enjoys hunting a wounded leopard or any other DG animal for that matter and no one whats the PH to shoot the animal you are paying for. But without a doubt a 6.5 x 55 will harvest a leopard, or even an elephant for that matter. There are also Leopards that are shot with muzzleloaders and some hunt them with a bow. My father hunts lions with a muzzleloader, so in happens in my own family. But I still always recommend, especially to first time Africa hunters, the 300 H & H or equivalent for P.G. and the 375 H & H or equivalent for D.G. and premium bullets from one of the aforementioned bullets companies. I also tell them if the law allows and they want to hunt Leopard they can easily do so with either rifle ( the 300 or 375 )

Charles, I got your messages and for some reason I have not been able to get the info to download to send to you sir. My father hunted Lion in CAR last time and am not sure what his plans are this year. I will be leaving London soon and will meet him at home in Africa sometime in May and I will know more then and will get back to you after I speak to him.

Best Regards

Jamila

Jamila,
I am probably to cut and dry on calibers and also take away too much romance from the hunt.
With me it would likely to boil down to body weight, when selecting bullets. And it seams like 150lb animals regardless of what continent they come from generally die in a very similar way.
Having never killed a leopard I cant really say this with absolute certainty, but I would be very
Very surprised if they are truely any harder to kill, than a Mountain Lyon of similar weight.....???
I would be surprised if either could stand getting hit ,with a well placed shot from a .243 or .250 Sav........ To be honest.
I have had hunters tell me they shot 1000lb Lions ???? 400lb Leopards, and 1500lb Tigers but we all know that is BS.......
I would be the first one to reach for the H&H on a 900lb "Siberian Tiger" ........ But for an animal I can drag off with one hand, :?
But still: I really cant say for sure ,since I have not "seen the elephant ,or smelled tbe smoke of Africa".

35 Whelen":2tbc2vxx said:

Jamila,
I am probably to cut and dry on calibers and also take away too much romance from the hunt.
With me it would likely to boil down to body weight, when selecting bullets. And it seams like 150lb animals regardless of what continent they come from generally die in a very similar way.
Having never killed a leopard I cant really say this with absolute certainty, but I would be very
Very surprised if they are truely any harder to kill, than a Mountain Lyon of similar weight.....???
I would be surprised if either could stand getting hit ,with a well placed shot from a .243 or .250 Sav........ To be honest.
I have had hunters tell me they shot 1000lb Lions ???? 400lb Leopards, and 1500lb Tigers but we all know that is BS.......
I would be the first one to reach for the H&H on a 900lb "Siberian Tiger" ........ But for an animal I can drag off with one hand, :?
But still: I really cant say for sure ,since I have not "seen the elephant ,or smelled tbe smoke of Africa".

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Again, never hunted animals in Africa, but if 500-700lb elk are knocked over with 270's and 30-06's every fall I think I'd be okay with that sorta rifle, especially if I shot it well. Hardly ever recover much from the wapiti so I'd be okay. Seems like the 7x57 with 173 grain Bullets was a wonderful meat gun back before the interwebs, it's only better 75 years later when it made its mark.

A few of the folks who have hunted Africa said a lot of the cull hunting occurred with a 308 since ammo was relatively inexpensive. It sure would be a heckuva trial to take a bunch of animals with some different cartridges and Bullets for fact finding.

J, which bullet do you all run most of the time in your 300? Recover very many of them? It would be cool to see them just compare what we scrape up outta elk, moose, deer and bear here in NA.

No Earle you and Scotty are not wrong. You could take your 6.5 x 55 camp rifle and even a smaller caliber for your two rifles and hunt a multitude of african game ( Klipspringer, Duiker, Springbok, Suni, Ostrich, Reedbuck, Impala, Blesbok, Reedbuck, Caracal, Bontebok, Steenbok, Oribi, Rhebok ), and add the Leopard, if your in the right location, so that you can do it legally.

You will be with a ph so if you run into a hairy situation that needs attention it can be handled by your ph ( lion, buffalo, elephant, rhino, hippo, )

Some of these animals could be harvested with a 22 Hornet. so yes, you guys could hunt a lot of animals in Africa with your 6.5 x 55 and a 22 Hornet or equivalent, as your two rifles.

Scotty, Bell harvested over 800 Elephants with a 7x 57, so you are also correct.

Charles, for the animals you want to hunt, you should bring your 404 Jeff, not only to hunt legally but IMHO it would be the better part of valor, and your second rifle could be your 340 or 9.3 x 64. Sent the message to my father, will let you know when I know

Best Regards

Jamila

Jamila,

Earle and Scotty, have not changed my mind. Although I do agree the bullets today are a lot better than they were in yesteryear, I am still going to suggest to him that he should take either a 375 H & H or a 404, or a 450/400 if he decides to invest in a double. And for plains game a 300 H & H. ( the 35 whelen and 338 win would work here as well ) He can save his money and take his 6.5 x 55 on a trip to Sweden or even use it in Arizona when he hunts Coues deer and use his 22 Hornet, if he has one, on whistle pigs.

nimrod84 you ask about terrain and that still has not been decided and in fact it looks more and more like two different hunts at different locations but both hunts will happen on the same trip

What a beautiful tiger, now that would be a hunt, but unfortunately I was born a little late to enjoy hunting tigers as to my knowledge there is no place on earth that one can legally hunt them or am I wrong about that ?

Correct,tigers are not being legally hunted right now.

News flash! Dr Mike........please make note to yourself: The young marine, (of noteable fame) has just admitted in his above post, that "he" would be comfortable " using a 30/06 !!!!! :shock:
Its a little wishy washy, but ;here it is again " 30-06's every fall I think I'd be okay with that sorta rifle"
By gosh , I believe he is trying to send us a message! :mrgreen:

Must have something to do with fluoridation in the water or some such thing. Perhaps it is all a liberal plot. For sure the young man is slipping badly to begin to think rationally like that. :?

There was also a nasty rumor he may be selling off his compleate collection of Model 70's and replacing them with new Tikkas!
Just wondering if he is " hittin the hard stuff again " ????

April,
Going have to get you over here with us at the lodge, while Scotty is in camp after a Maine Moose, so he and I can talk some sense into ya!!!! :lol:

Earle, it would be my pleasure to enjoy a fine Maine lobster dinner and a few martini's with you and Scotty. Would it be o.k. if I brought along Charles, or Dr Mike, or Gil, or Hodgeman or a number of other's who understand that when one gets the opportunity to hunt Africa, their choice of what two rifle's to take on the trip are not the 6.5 x 55 and a 22 Hornet ? I dont want you two to gang up on a poor defenseless woman. BTW, for those who think Mary Jane is the hard stuff, you are not old enough to remember unfiltered Camels and Lucky Strikes

Europe":sgchce75 said:

Earle, it would be my pleasure to enjoy a fine Maine lobster dinner and a few martini's with you and Scotty. Would it be o.k. if I brought along Charles, or Dr Mike, or Gil, or Hodgeman or a number of other's who understand that when one gets the opportunity to hunt Africa, their choice of what two rifle's to take on the trip are not the 6.5 x 55 and a 22 Hornet ? I dont want you two to gang up on a poor defenseless woman. BTW, for those who think Mary Jane is the hard stuff, you are not old enough to remember unfiltered Camels and Lucky Strikes

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Well, Maine would be a delightful trip for this ol' boy. And, yes, I do remember "the hard stuff," April. Three packs a day of Camels from age eight until entering med school! :shock: Suddenly realized that this was not an exceptionally bright move on my part. The death of a childhood friend from lung cancer at age 22 and a landlord dying of emphysema forced me to think about that. Those were the days that we all still smoked in the lecture halls.

Two rifles for Africa? Being the expert I am (having stayed once in a Holiday Inn Express, etc.) can't imagine I really need more than a 9.3X64 Brenneke where it is legal, or a 375 H&H otherwise, and any of a variety of excellent cartridges for plains game. I must say that I would be quite content with my 325 WSM (or my 8X68S if I can bring sufficient ammunition); of course, a 30-06 would work just fine. Leopard on the menu? Well, the old '06 would be just fine for that task.

I should imagine that a gathering that included Charles and Hodgeman with April and Earle would be most interesting. We could send the lads out to find some moose whilst we regaled one another with tales of daring do in long past yesteryears. Gil? Hey, I hunt with that lad. Yeah, he'll do a fine job finding moose. I believe he can smell them out, 'cept when he's looking for one for me.