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 Post subject: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
Posts: 121
Or maybe running full bore away from it would be a better statement.

Was looking through a new catalog I got from Bass Pro Shop. Out of several pages of guns exactly 2 were hardwood. 1 browning semi-auto 22 that would've actually taken some work and effort to find some wood any plainer. And a Daisy pellet gun.

I also was surfing around on Midways site and was looking at the Speer selection in 30 caliber. I noticed NO round nose in 150 gr and up, so I went to Speer's website. YEP. Gone are the 150, 165, and 180 gr hot cor round nose from their bullet lists.

At this rate there will come a day when our caliber choices will be limited to plastic adjustable stocks in an AR platform and our bullet choices for a given caliber will be A,B,C, or D with a plastic tip. Maybe I'm too old school and am out of the loop but the whole thing is gravely irritating.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 975
Location: Central Minnesnowta
Old Mausers never die. There has perhaps been no better time since the glory days of Bannerman's and buckets of rifles at the hardware store to pick up a Mauser, Springfield or M17 enfield action at a gunshow. With a C&R or some help from a friendly FFL, you can ship it off to be built into whatever you want with a barrel and trigger of a quality never before matched at a working man's price. A nice piece of walnut from Richard, Boyds or other places and you're all set. For a decent price, some pretty fine sporters can be had for reasonable prices as well if you don't mind 30-06... their previous owners have sold or traded them on the newest super gun/caliber, and the market is soft. Just saw a M17 sporter, beautifully done gunsmith work, fully figured curly maple stock with hand cut checkering, and some nice inlay and engraving. Would have made most sportsmen's mouths water through the 1980's, now it's a $500 pawnshop rifle.

As for the demise of some of the RN bullets, I don't miss those much. Modern spritzers are here to stay, and there will always be some squat flat based ones for the calibers that have case capacity issues with long, boat tailed designs.

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:51 am
Posts: 346
Location: Colbert, WA
Wood is definitely on the decline.

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
Posts: 121
Polaris wrote:
Old Mausers never die. There has perhaps been no better time since the glory days of Bannerman's and buckets of rifles at the hardware store to pick up a Mauser, Springfield or M17 enfield action at a gunshow. With a C&R or some help from a friendly FFL, you can ship it off to be built into whatever you want with a barrel and trigger of a quality never before matched at a working man's price. A nice piece of walnut from Richard, Boyds or other places and you're all set. For a decent price, some pretty fine sporters can be had for reasonable prices as well if you don't mind 30-06... their previous owners have sold or traded them on the newest super gun/caliber, and the market is soft. Just saw a M17 sporter, beautifully done gunsmith work, fully figured curly maple stock with hand cut checkering, and some nice inlay and engraving. Would have made most sportsmen's mouths water through the 1980's, now it's a $500 pawnshop rifle.

As for the demise of some of the RN bullets, I don't miss those much. Modern spritzers are here to stay, and there will always be some squat flat based ones for the calibers that have case capacity issues with long, boat tailed designs.


I don't mind the Spitzer design, there are some darn good ones.......some were designed years ago and are still good. As for the round nose, they have difficulty keeping up with a good spritzer at anything entering moderate range, but they do have their place. A relatively heavy for caliber quick expanding round nose in a fairly stout jacket is a robust performer with snap shots at close range and there is something very satisfying about that combo. As of now Sierra still produces them in their tougher pro hunter line.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 975
Location: Central Minnesnowta
One I wish they would bring back is the Speer Mag tip. A relatively blunt spitzer, but not quite as blunt as a round nose. Stout jacket, good enough BC for moderate range in the application I used them in. Protected metplat, held up well in magazines and the feed ramps of former military rifles I favor. Still use them in the wife's .308 until that stock is used up. Lapua Mega is the next closest thing I found.

Hornady and Sierra both still make round noses. I think single shot pistol silhouette is keeping them alive for the most part. Supposedly they stabilize better than spitzers at moderate velocity through short barrels. Not many like us who appreciate a retro bullet anymore!

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 1860
Location: Delta Junction, AK
Yeah- wood is losing out in the mass production firearms market. You can still find wood (and decent wood at that) but you're going to have to go looking for it. On the rack at a Bass Pro or Cabelas isn't likely.

From a practical perspective, I'd rather have a synthetic stock than some piece of plain, poorly made lumber on a rifle.I've got a couple of older rifles with "economy" wood stocks...not walnut, probably birch...plain and cheap.It's easy to see why they went the way of the dodo.

The plastic tipped bullets work, but it's mostly marketing. If you compare ballistics...there's not enough difference to speak of until you get out a ways. I will say that some of the RN and blunt Spitzers are more reliable performers than the tipped bullets used to be.

The 180 Partition in the "Protect Point" might just be the most reliable bullet made.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:57 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:13 pm
Posts: 1346
"As of now Sierra still produces them in their tougher pro hunter line."

They dropped the wonderful 7MM 170 gr. round nose many years ago. I called about a year and a half ago asking if they'd even bring them back. They said there wasn't enough demand so probably gone forever. :( :cry: :x I loved them in the 7x57. I did get lucky and found a supply so probably am good for life. (y)
I do have some 180 gr. Sierra and 220 gr. RN on hand. Probably load them in the 30-06. 8)
Paul B.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:32 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:00 pm
Posts: 1365
Location: Northern Idaho
There's still Woodleigh RN bullets, but only in .264, .308, and up.

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Posts: 876
Location: Edna, Texas
Hey ShadeTree, that O'Connor book has you craving those finely stocked classic rifles of his era, heh? I'm afraid I've fallen into that too. Since we didn't draw any deer tags in New Mexico again this year, we just went there varmint calling. I was hunting with a Remington 722 C in .222 rem circa 1950s with an old Weaver V9W ontop. Modern styled rifles have little appeal to me. If I found a custom 1917 06 with a nicely figured curly maple stock at a pawn shop for $500 it would surely be a BruceMc rifle in a heart beat.

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Posts: 2987
Well If I could post any pics..... :evil: I would trot out a few "more traditional rifles". I get it, that ruger precision rifle looks like a fearsome piece of equipment and probably drives nails. But I just cant see myself enjoying it like the one of mine. Listening to a game on the radio while I add a coat of stock wax, on a cold winter sunday afternoon. And a curly maple stock....stops me like a ...well. :oops: CL

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 13494
Location: Washington State
Good ol' walnut and blue steel rifles still do just fine.

But, it's getting tougher to find good walnut. I don't mind a nice synthetic stock on a hard-use rifle, but I do prefer wood. Even relatively plain wood.

I only use round nose or flat nosed bullets in rifles intended for modest range use, like my 30-30 Glenfield. With hardwood stocks BTW.

Do have some 270 gr round nose Hornady bullets loaded up for my 375 H&H right now, and was impressed with how well they shot at 300 yards.

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:10 am
Posts: 826
Ever since I finally finished my old Mauser in 9.3x62, I’ve been eyeballing mausers on gunbroker. One of these days I’m gonna find one when I have some extra cash laying around and it’s gonna be mine! Wood is very hard to find these days for sure! Don’t get me wrong I like and use the plastic rifles, but nothing is nicer than gorgeous walnut and deep blueing.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:51 am
Posts: 346
Location: Colbert, WA
Maybe some day I can have something like this...

Image

Or this...

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
Posts: 121
Bruce Mc wrote:
Hey ShadeTree, that O'Connor book has you craving those finely stocked classic rifles of his era, heh? I'm afraid I've fallen into that too. Since we didn't draw any deer tags in New Mexico again this year, we just went there varmint calling. I was hunting with a Remington 722 C in .222 rem circa 1950s with an old Weaver V9W ontop. Modern styled rifles have little appeal to me. If I found a custom 1917 06 with a nicely figured curly maple stock at a pawn shop for $500 it would surely be a BruceMc rifle in a heart beat.


Wasn't really thinking about that at all just was kinda disgusted looking at pages of plastic. But yeah, some of those rifles in O'Connor's book would make any sane man momentarily sputter incoherently if it was in his hands. (y)


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:10 am
Posts: 826
5shot wrote:
Maybe some day I can have something like this...

Image

Or this...

Image

Absolutely. Beautiful craftsmanship.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 13494
Location: Washington State
5-shot & Cleveland - is there any way you guys can shrink your avatars to normal sized intstead of billboard sized.

Frankly, I'm not interested in reading your posts until you do. It's obnoxious to have to scroll across just to read whatever you had to say, because your avatar is HUGE.

Regards, Guy


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Guy Miner wrote:
5-shot & Cleveland - is there any way you guys can shrink your avatars to normal sized intstead of billboard sized.

Frankly, I'm not interested in reading your posts until you do. It's obnoxious to have to scroll across just to read whatever you had to say, because your avatar is HUGE.

Regards, Guy

Sorry Guy, hopefully this is better. I’m always using tapatalk on my phone, so I had no idea it was huge. Hopefully this is better.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:51 am
Posts: 346
Location: Colbert, WA
Guy Miner wrote:
5-shot & Cleveland - is there any way you guys can shrink your avatars to normal sized intstead of billboard sized.

Frankly, I'm not interested in reading your posts until you do. It's obnoxious to have to scroll across just to read whatever you had to say, because your avatar is HUGE.

Regards, Guy


On my computer it was no bigger than yours or anyone else on the forum. I deleted it. You won't find much interesting to read in my posts anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:33 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Central Pa
My old go to bullet for the 303 Brit was the Hornady 174gr round nose. Haven't used that rifle in years though.


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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:40 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 658
Location: Northern CO
At some point over the past 20 years.... a younger, more practical generation of riflemen cropped up. They’ve grown up in an era where rifles are tools, rather than prized possessions (or even status symbols). Synthetic stocks and Stainless actions are simply better tools.... and there really is no debate there.

If someone gave me that rifle pictured above, and I treated it like I treat my McMillan stocked stainless 700.... it would look like a fence-post in about 2 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Slipping away from tradition.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 am
Posts: 13494
Location: Washington State
5shot wrote:
Guy Miner wrote:
5-shot & Cleveland - is there any way you guys can shrink your avatars to normal sized intstead of billboard sized.

Frankly, I'm not interested in reading your posts until you do. It's obnoxious to have to scroll across just to read whatever you had to say, because your avatar is HUGE.

Regards, Guy


On my computer it was no bigger than yours or anyone else on the forum. I deleted it. You won't find much interesting to read in my posts anyway...


Oh, you've got tons of great stuff to share, as do most of the folks here. I wonder why the thing was HUGE on my screen? Weird.

Guy


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