Can't decide (updated Browning BLR 358 Win)

Well my choice would be to stick with the .35 Whelen and change bullet weights. I would load the 225 gr. Barnes TSX over a stiff charge of Rl15 and never look back. I load 60.4 gr. of Rl15 and the 225 gr. TSX in my custom Mauser and it's accurate with a velocity of 2710 FPS. Trajectory is about the same as a 180 gr. spitzer in a 30-06. What's not to like?
Now I have three rifles chambered to the Whelen. My Mauser, a Ruger M77 and a Remington M700 Classic. I have not tried that load in the Ruger mainly because I think it has a headspace problem. I get case head separations from factory loads. :shock: The load is a bit too hot for the M700 and will lock up the bolt. I've thought about dropping the speed down to 2600 FPS for the M700. Not all that bad an idea as if you chronograph factory 30-06, you'll find as I did that at lest Winchester Power Points only do just about 2600 FPS from my M700 BDL. I can attest that that 225 gr. TSX is one heck of a penetrating son of a gun. I've used that bullet on 5 elk and have not recovered one single bullet. Probably get the same results from Partitions or Accubonds if truth be told.
Paul B.

Let's not distract him fella's.... Gerry probably needs a new rifle. Whelen for the 200's and Norma for the 250's and up! Geeze...

I looked up a new BLR in 358Win and they are pushing $925 or at least the one I found was and it was a Stainless steel model so it would be a good all weather gun.
If it were me option #2 is the way to go and put a 1.5-5X20mm on it so you could shoot it both eyes open if you needed to get a quick shot off at a running or charging target. there isn't anything in NA that a 9.3x62 won't stop with the right slug or the Dark Continent either.

35 Whelen":3tydf21u said:

Gerry,
Abit. Lost on this one???
What is your true shift of impact from 200 gr bullets your so fond of,
And say a 250 Speer out of your gun???? Is it not ALOT simpler to just
Find out how many clicks it takes to rezero, ( isn't going to be much) and
Just use what you already have???
There is no Bear in NA walking that can stand being hit with a 35 Whelen: when
Pushed up to 2600fps with RL15 and a good 250 gr bullet????
You already have a .338 in disguise???? I have flattened dozens of Brown Bears with my
old SuperGrade . 338 and never saw one that had any interest except getting as far away from
Me as possible???? You have ditto performance right in your Whelen ???
Question: What advantage is there in shooting a 200gr bullet from the Whelen vs
Simply shooting a 200 gr bullet from the 30/06 ??? Won't both the BC/SD be better
At 200 grs with .308/.358 ????
I know guys love to mess around with light bullets in the Whelen, but for me it's only
advantage is above 225grs ??? I know a fellow on here that removed a brand new barrel
from his Whelen and installed a different twist just to shoot Heavier than 250 grs???
I am pretty sure you know him too??? Calls himself Dr Something another????? :lol:

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My Whelen has a 24" barrel and no iron sights and I don't want to change a thing by chopping it since it shoots so well. I have piles of 200 and 225 gr Accubonds to last many years I need to shoot up in it I'm aware that it would do everything I would want but I would like something a bit shorter and a good set of irons. This is going to be a specialised gun, my Whelen is going to be hunted a lot more.

SJB358":3tydf21u said:

Let's not distract him fella's.... Gerry probably needs a new rifle. Whelen for the 200's and Norma for the 250's and up! Geeze...

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As usual the big Marine hits the nail on the head :lol:

To muddy the waters a bit more I took a look today at a couple of straight grip Browning BLR's today. In the past I had a pistol grip BLR but was curious as to how the straight grip felt. Took a look at a 450 Marlin and a 300 WSM, both felt real nice but I have to admit the slightly lighter 300 handled a bit better. The 450 has a 20" barrel and is supposed to weigh 7 lbs and the 300 WSM 6 3/4 lbs and a 22" barrel. Handling both side by side you can feel the difference. A 300 WSM with a 220 gr Partition or 240 gr Woodleigh would in reality do everything I would want.

As of now I'm leaning towards a BLR over the others. I am waiting for a response back from a couple of gunsmith's about rebarreling the Rem 700. No decision yet so we will see.................

As for BLR's in 450...ever notice how many of them are on used gun racks?

Having talked to some of those guys trading/selling those rifles, and the common consensus from the average guy was that it was "too much off a good thing!"

Or in otherwords, "kicked like hell!" Even with a Limbsaver recoil pad installed.

I would imagine a lower velocity practice load would be pretty nice in a 450 Marlin The 358's are pretty hard to find on the used market too, must not have been too many made.

Hey good luck with your project, sounds like you got lots of options to choose from! Hope it all works out for you Gerry.
Having been in the same spot, trying to protect our camps for years from intruding bears wanting to steal the quarters off the game poles, that even with the camp full of rifles of all flavors; there really wasnt a "good one". And firing into the air, was hopeless after they returned a few times, ditto on throwing M80's out the tent door.....
Firing at their feet, soon leads to a wounded one........
By far tbe best way to protect yourself and the bear was
With a short barreled 12 ga shotgun.....(I had a R.E.M. 870 always with me). The moment we had a bear that shows signs he was willing to go for broke
Because he was so hungary, we shot them in the rump with # 6 from about 50 yds, that will just make it thru the
Hide, but stings them enough that 98/99% of the time the
Problem is solved and no one really gets hurt. (I realize some won't agree with this method, and legally in today's environment everything that works being illegal, it would be frowned upon.) And if in fact if you do, ever get into that life/death situation, with a bear ( most likely after it's dark outside)
I cant think of a firearm, that inside of 25 yds you will be better off with than a 12ga \3" Mag 1 1/4 oz slugs for 1st two, followed by two 3" Mag #1 copper plated Buckshot! Especially in the DARK...
And the real kicker is, you always have a gun to shoot ptarmagan and ducks with!
Sportsman guide price less than $150! Dickerson Comando
And anyone is wondering why I prefer #1 Buckshot over 00, here is a quick comparison of them
In the standard 2 3/4 length but same difference apply in 3" shells, check it out!
Buckshot comparisons
The data below is just for reference. 00 Buck - 9 pieces X .33" = 2.97" # 1 Buck - 16 pieces X .30 = 4.80" That's 62% more area. OO Buck - 9 pieces X 53 grains = 477 grains # 1 Buck - 16 pieces X 40 grains = 640 grains That's 34% more mass. ME for 9 X 00 Buck @ 1250 FPS = 1,654 ft/lbs ME for 16 X #1 Buck @ 1250 FPS = 2,220 ft/lbs That's a 35% increase in ME. The bottom line - I prefer the #1 Buckshot round, for all the above reasons. But I am certain, most prefer 00, And either one, is a good choice. When your stumbling around in a dark tent, when a bear is trying to visit!
Good Luck !
E

At fish camp in Alaska, there is a 12 gauge, and some shells that fire rubber balls. Works pretty doggone well on discouraging brown bears that wander into camp. I can't remember who makes those particular shells, but they work. In all the years the camp has been there, I don't believe a single bear has had to be killed, despite many of them being in the area.

A good 12 gauge is a good thing to have around. Very versatile.

Guy

Ditto on the 870. I've never thought about the difference in buck shot however.
We have two rifles in camp and if memory serves 6 870s. I actually conduct firearms training with our guides. Funny thing is, just like police work, several resist. Most shoot the shotgun more effectively on the rolling target.
I've also done the #6 shot on the butt, rubber bullets and bean bags. Like the bean bags a lot.
Back to the subject at hand, I support the BLR in any appropriate caliber and believe it solves many business objectives. Therefore every effort should be made to immediately obtain said weapon systems and begin training.


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"Back to the subject at hand, I support the BLR in any appropriate caliber and believe it solves many business objectives. Therefore every effort should be made to immediately obtain said weapon systems and begin training! " :wink:
Lol, I guess I second the motion..... :grin:

sask boy":udger2e5 said:

hseII, photos like yours are not allowed on this forum !! Reason being old guys like me drool over pictures like that :mrgreen:. lol
gerry I personally second Gil pick of a BLR in the 358 as I have shot one a few times and it is perfect for in the bush you can place a compact 2-6X36mm on top. They do come up used a quite often on a few sites.

Blessings,
Dan

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[emoji23][emoji23]

Gerry, if Noah doesn't choose the BLR of Mike's as his rifle, then you may be able to convince the good Dr to let it go to you when he starts paring down his collection. It would do a hunter's heart good to see such a great rifle go to a hunter and shooter such as yourself. I'll put in a good word for you!

I bought it when he was selling it the first time, just tonkeep it from going to some yokel that would not truly appreciate it, and when Noah showed interest in a levergun, sold it back to Mike for his grandson to have it as a choice of inheritance rifle. Would have made a great pairing with his 260 Rem.

Thanks Gil I appreciate the kind thoughts.

I'm not much closer yet to deciding but I'm thinking getting the Rem 700 rebarreled might not be the best option for now. I might just hang on to it for a while and see or maybe trade it in for a Tikka T 3 in 270 or 300 WSM.

For a bear gun for camping that leaves the 9.3x62 or a BLR in 300 or 325 WSM or 358 Winchester, good thing I have time to decide. Probably going to drop the 450 Marlin from consideration to keep recoil down a bit. Maybe when we get back from visiting family at Christmas time it will be a bit more clear.

gerry":2o8asag4 said:

Thanks Gil I appreciate the kind thoughts.

I'm not much closer yet to deciding but I'm thinking getting the Rem 700 rebarreled might not be the best option for now. I might just hang on to it for a while and see or maybe trade it in for a Tikka T 3 in 270 or 300 WSM.

For a bear gun for camping that leaves the 9.3x62 or a BLR in 300 or 325 WSM or 358 Winchester, good thing I have time to decide. Probably going to drop the 450 Marlin from consideration to keep recoil down a bit. Maybe when we get back from visiting family at Christmas time it will be a bit more clear.

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Those Tikka 9.3x62's look pretty danged solid. Knowing how well Tikka's do around here and for others that might be a good one too.

SJB358":1dz5esqt said:

gerry":1dz5esqt said:

Thanks Gil I appreciate the kind thoughts.

I'm not much closer yet to deciding but I'm thinking getting the Rem 700 rebarreled might not be the best option for now. I might just hang on to it for a while and see or maybe trade it in for a Tikka T 3 in 270 or 300 WSM.

For a bear gun for camping that leaves the 9.3x62 or a BLR in 300 or 325 WSM or 358 Winchester, good thing I have time to decide. Probably going to drop the 450 Marlin from consideration to keep recoil down a bit. Maybe when we get back from visiting family at Christmas time it will be a bit more clear.

Click to expand...

Those Tikka 9.3x62's look pretty danged solid. Knowing how well Tikka's do around here and for others that might be a good one too.

Click to expand...

Gerry, Tikka's make nice rifles and as you said the 9.3 x 62 is a classy caliber, it would work. I do like having a lever action rifle in camp however and was wondering if you have considered the Browning 71, 348. I have looked at several and like them. They have a nice "feel" to them and with a 20 inch tube very handy. There is certainly nothing wrong with the 358 either.

Best of luck

Europe":18a66vb6 said:

SJB358":18a66vb6 said:

gerry":18a66vb6 said:

Thanks Gil I appreciate the kind thoughts.

I'm not much closer yet to deciding but I'm thinking getting the Rem 700 rebarreled might not be the best option for now. I might just hang on to it for a while and see or maybe trade it in for a Tikka T 3 in 270 or 300 WSM.

For a bear gun for camping that leaves the 9.3x62 or a BLR in 300 or 325 WSM or 358 Winchester, good thing I have time to decide. Probably going to drop the 450 Marlin from consideration to keep recoil down a bit. Maybe when we get back from visiting family at Christmas time it will be a bit more clear.

Click to expand...

Those Tikka 9.3x62's look pretty danged solid. Knowing how well Tikka's do around here and for others that might be a good one too.

Click to expand...

Gerry, Tikka's make nice rifles and as you said the 9.3 x 62 is a classy caliber, it would work. I do like having a lever action rifle in camp however and was wondering if you have considered the Browning 71, 348. I have looked at several and like them. They have a nice "feel" to them and with a 20 inch tube very handy. There is certainly nothing wrong with the 358 either.

Best of luck

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I would be pretty happy with the 71 and 250 Woodleighs.. It has to leave a mark.. Heck, I would be good with the 200 grain Swift as well. Probably as good as the 250 and maybe a little better, if that is even possible..

SJB358":1334h4zg said:

Europe":1334h4zg said:

SJB358":1334h4zg said:

gerry":1334h4zg said:

Thanks Gil I appreciate the kind thoughts.

I'm not much closer yet to deciding but I'm thinking getting the Rem 700 rebarreled might not be the best option for now. I might just hang on to it for a while and see or maybe trade it in for a Tikka T 3 in 270 or 300 WSM.

For a bear gun for camping that leaves the 9.3x62 or a BLR in 300 or 325 WSM or 358 Winchester, good thing I have time to decide. Probably going to drop the 450 Marlin from consideration to keep recoil down a bit. Maybe when we get back from visiting family at Christmas time it will be a bit more clear.

Click to expand...

Those Tikka 9.3x62's look pretty danged solid. Knowing how well Tikka's do around here and for others that might be a good one too.

Click to expand...

Gerry, Tikka's make nice rifles and as you said the 9.3 x 62 is a classy caliber, it would work. I do like having a lever action rifle in camp however and was wondering if you have considered the Browning 71, 348. I have looked at several and like them. They have a nice "feel" to them and with a 20 inch tube very handy. There is certainly nothing wrong with the 358 either.

Best of luck

Click to expand...

I would be pretty happy with the 71 and 250 Woodleighs.. It has to leave a mark.. Heck, I would be good with the 200 grain Swift as well. Probably as good as the 250 and maybe a little better, if that is even possible..

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Scotty, dont forget the 230 Northfork. I dont want to derail gerry thread but both Cheyenne's grandfather and Jerry speak well of the Northfork bullets. It is my understanding that there was very intense study preformed on DG bullets ( both soft and solid and in Northforks case their expanding solid ) and that Northfork and then Swift were leading the pack of 8 bullet manufacturers that were involved in the test.

Back to Gerry's thread---have you considered the 348 Gerry ?

Haven’t tried them in the 348 but it is only a matter of time. They do make excellent Bullets.

Actually I haven't considered the 348 Win but it would be a good one to look at. It appears that Jamison brass is available here so that is a plus. The rifles seem hard to find and can be shockingly expensive for a used gun. There looks to be a new one for sale but it would be over $1600.00 easily by the time it got here. If I found the right gun it certainly could be an option, they have a good reputation. A 250 gr Woodleigh at 2300 fps would be a thumper.