Brown Bear bullets for the 35 Whelen?

35 Whelen

Handloader
Dec 22, 2011
2,160
237
Here is some info that floated around a few years back some may have seen it already some probably have not. Enjoy the discussion 8) It is interesting view on what one might use. Here is what they had to say ..................................
I tend to agree with your assesment of bullets and velocties. The A frame is tough and though I've used it extensively for nearly twenty years I've not taken anything with it in the Whelen that I can remember. I did hunt with 250 grain A-frames in a 35 caliber based on the 376 Steyr case but it ups the Whelen velocity about 200 fps. The 338-06 with 225 grains is another story and they are about 2700 to 2750 fps. Swift Aframe bullets almost always exit except in really big critters like cape buffalo and moose shoulder. The reason for the exit is that it expands less or at a slower rate. The same could be said for the TSX's less expansion, more exits. An exiting bullet will leave a much larger hole than it's expanded diameter, due to velocity and all that stuff set in motion that goes with it. I have heard and seen very good reports with the 250 Partition and the Whelen, but here again it isn't as tough as the A-frame or TSX. The Kodiaks are a soft tapered jacket with a fully bonded core and though it is different from the Partition it performs right along with it (killing power) until velocity gets too high. They will expand rapidly and will not exit in most situations. The faster you drive them the less they penetrate (they expand more). Woodleigh is a tougher bullet but similarly constructed with a fully bonded core. The Woodleigh jacket is not tapered and is not as soft and just holds together better when over driven. Exits are rare except with heavys at slow to moderate velocities. Understand if you want exit holes, velocity needs to be slower to reduce early expansion. If you shoot the TSX drive it as fast as you can drive it. Ditto for the A-frame and the NorthFork.

I believe if I were to hunt big bears with a Whelen, and that is certainly on my list of usable calibers for the purpose, I would use a 225 Swift or a 250 grain Woodleigh, Partition or Kodiak. I have alot of experience with all these from moderate velocity guns such as 9.3x62, 338-06 and similar velocities. I would normally want the 250 or heavier but with the A-frame and TSX the 225 will allow me to up the velocity without over expanding and this will compensate for the lower SD of the 225 grainers. I'd load the 250 grain Woodleigh, Kodiak or Partition at 2500 fps and the 225 grain A-frame, TSX's, NorthForks or TBBC's to max 2700ish and not worry about anything but making the shot..

I believe bullet weight, design and sectional density control the depth of penetration. Velocity can increase or decrease penetration depending on design. I know four people in this state who have taken 9 foot class brown bears here with the 35 Whelen. Three used the 250 Partition and one used the 250 pp Kodiak. I loaded all the ammo.

Later on in the discussion someone else thru in comparing the 338/06 to the Whelen and if it had any advantages or disadvantages and here is what was said about that?

Loaded to the same pressure, the whelen has about a 100 fps advantage over the 338-06 with the same weight bullets. As I've stated before, the 338-06 sounds sexy, the 35 whelen makes a bigger hole. At 300 yds the sleeker 338 bullets are traveling the same speed as the whelen bullets, so beyond 300 yds the 338-06 has an advantage, but I don't think many folks consider either round as one they'd use for 300+ yd shots.

I've never figured out the alure of the 338-06 as you can buy a factory 338 win mag for much less than you can build a 338-06, the win mag has a 200 fps advantage, factory ammo, and can be dowloaded to the 338-06 levels if you need reduced recoil.

Personally I picked up one of rugers 350 rem mag all weathers, the short action 35 whelen, and consider it an outstanding gun. A good 225 gr @ 2700 fps is all you need in Alaska on any thing that walks here.
 
If I were to use my 35 Whelen for Brown Bear, I would use the 250 gr PT at 2580 fps and not look back.

JD338
 
Excellent points on bullets for the big stuff. I've shot a lot of A-Frames, Kodiaks and Woodleighs over the years. Partitions have never let me down here in BC, however. I'll likely continue to work with the others, but there'll always be a good selection of Partitions available for loading at my bench.
 
There are lots of good slugs available for big bears in the 35 Whelen I have carried mine while hunting coastal grizzly here but have shot my first one last fall with my 375 Ruger. Wouldn't hesitate to use any premium 225 gr or heavier bullet. My favorite slug for big stuff was the 250 gr Grand Slam but it has been discontinued.
 
I doubt that I would ever get a chance to hunt big Browns, but I wonder if any of you guys with experience would consider the 225-grain AccuBond at 2700 fps to be adequate for such. I am using this in my Whelen and have carried it on black bear hunts for three years running, but have not had a chance to see it perform as in those three years I have seen precisely zero bears. I have no doubt athat this combination would devastate any black bear I am likely to find in the southern USA...but reading the comments above make me wonder about its adequacy for big Browns.

I'm aching to thump a big hog with the 225-grain AccuBond also. No question in my mind as to its suitability for this purpose!!
 
I have a small stash of Barnes Original 275 SPs that I've been holding for a grizzly/coastal brown bear hunt. But realistically, a 250 Partition, I would think, not having shot any big bears, would do everything you would need done.
 
Well here is different angle on all of this. When I was a young assisant guide back in 1978 I started out guiding Bear hunters in Alaska with "Alaska Safaris Inc" the original Ward Gays outfit. All the older guides lugged .375 H&H and most of them were in Model 70s so I was obviously influenced by that. I arrived up there with a brand new 300 Win Mag that at the time I thought was almost as powerful as a 50 cal ! Anyway after a few mixup with wounded bears I quickly decided that I had made a very poor decision for my back up gun. I wound up with a new Sako 375 and had a flawless record with it for over 20 years with that gun; and soon had the utmost confidence with it on any size bear . However back in that era the number one gun that was selling in Alaska; was from a special deal that the local Longs Drug Store used to run because the owner of Longs was a personal friend of Bill Rugers. He would buy Model 77s a "thousand at a time" and get very special pricing . Back in 1982ish they used to run an ads for the Model 77s in .338 W for $359 to the public; so as the years went on; they sold many thousands of them up there, and they became a standard similar to a Filson jacket. Almost all the younger guides; were starting to lug them and they all seamed to have no problem with them backing up bear hunters; and as the years went by I decided to dump my old 300 W; and get one as well. I bought another Sako and used the 210 Noslers in Federal Premiums most of the time for everything but bears; but had a box or two of 250s incase I needed to use it for a big bear. It wasnt too long before I had to try it as that is what I had in the field that day; and I imeadiately found it seamed to work equally as well as the old .375. I quickly got more and more confident with it; until the 375 was mostly just a dust collector in the back of my closet. Hundreds of guides have sucessfully killed the largest bears there in the last 30 years and it is a known performer that is NOT really in question . The point of all this is that if you go look at either a box of .338s in 210gr at 2800fps [Avg for the 3 big ammo makers] or the 250gr Federal Premiums or Remington Corelokts they advertise a MV of 2400 fps. Now we all know that those loads can be improved on but considering that most guys guiding for Bears tend to stick with FACTORY loadings. [Some of the older Registered guides would fire you for fooling around with reloads on a bear hunt! And I remember a young guide having his rifle wraped around a cottonwood tree; because he had a misfire on a charging bear]
Where I am headed with all this is that when we see honest 2700fps with 225gr loads from a Whelen or 2500/plus fps from a 250gr on the chronographs that is either a match or so close to it that it isnt even worth considering the difference when you are down to a 100fps with the same bullet weight why would ANYONE think that the Whelen wouldnt do the same exact thing that has been proven for over 40 years with the .338???? I know a half a dozen guides that have hunted Alaska for 30/40 years with Whelens built on Model 70 actions; and none of them have ever had a problem and all swear by the Whelen;[which is the main reason I wound up with one] so its interesting that so many here; are still consirned with using the caliber on a thousand pound bear??
I think its very safe to say that the Whelen loaded with a premium 250gr bullet; rolling along at 24-2600 fps with a good shoulder shot will undoubtedly knock the SNOT out of any brown bear that ever frequented the alders of ALASKA! And if that is not true then how the heck have so many guides been flattening them for 40 years with a 338 with 250gr Factory loads going the same sorta speeds we are all seeing through the hoops ? Check the factory specs on a box of Federal or Remington 250s; as that is what 90% of them are using up there; and see what it says and then I think the picture will become very clear to you. I realize there are all sorts of custom loadings and some of them exceed the figures I have listed here. But this fact will always remain in place. The avg guy in Alaska does not pay $80 a box for his shells; he gets them on sale for the cheapest price he can, almost all of the guys I used to hunt with all prefered the 250gr bullets when fooling around with 1000lb bears; so considering that a huge amount of the bears that have been piled up over the last fourty years have been killed with .338s and 250 gr bullets with an advertised vel of 2400 fps what does a 35 Whelen have to fear????????? I could not see ANY difference between shooting a 1000 lb moose with a 210gr 338 going 2800 or my 35 Whelen 225s going 2700, so I sold it. I have no intentions of buying one back to shoot my next Brown Bear!
 
35W, I think we can all appreciate your comments based on your experience.

I dunno if you were responding directly to my question or not...I do NOT doubt for a microsecond that the .35 Whelen has the horsepower to handle a big bear with the right bullet---I am just wondering if the 225-grain AccuBond is actually tough enough to rely on. I don't think I'd hesitate to use it on anything at all in North America EXCEPT possibly the big bears, and that's ONLY because I do not know from experience. Maybe it's already hammered a hundred big ones for all I know. I doubt that I'll ever find out for myself what it's like to take one of the big bears but I can surely experience it vicariously and enjoy what others can relate.
 
35 Whelen, I concur with nearly everything you have said on this topic, except the comparison of the .35 Whelan to the .338-06. The only point that I disagree with there is the reference to the "Whelen being 100 fps faster than the .338-06 at a bullet weight". That is not actually true, apples to apples, If you remember there is 0.020 inch difference in diameter between the two calibers and I personally would prefer to use bullets of the same sectional density when comparing caliber ballistics, whenever possible, instead of bullet weight because they are more equally compared.

The .35 Whelen 250 gr Partition has a SD of .279. This is nearly identical to the .338 caliber (.338-06, 225 gr Partition SD of .281. If you were to compare these two bullets of the same sectional density, it would make more sense to me as an apples-to-apples comparison and velocities all of the sudden are pretty equivalent. Comparing different calibers and different ballistic coefficients is a slippery slope.
 
35 Whelen,

I have a 375 Ruger and 35 Whelen the only reason I bought the 375 was I had my Sako 35 Whelen jam on me while shooting a black bear a few years ago. The short barreled Ruger is great but the honest truth is I can't tell any difference in killing power between the Whelen and the 375 Ruger. Have thought about rebarreling the 375 to 358 Norma since I like that round as well it would shoot flatter and kick less than a 375. Bottom line, if I had a Whelen that I knew wouldn't jam the 375 Ruger would be history. Right now I have two Whelens still not sure what I will do but I do like the 35's better than the 375's even though they are great cartridges.

RiverRider,

I don't doubt the 225 gr AccuBond will work well (the moose I shot a couple of months ago with it would agree) but if you don't feel confident in it the 250 gr Partition is available plus other companies offer bullets that are even heavier.

Long live the 35 Whelen 8)
 
Riverrunner I wasnt reponding to your post; and you actually asked a darn good question considering I dont actually know anyone personally, that has used a 225 Accubonds to harvest a big brownie. From all that has been said on here and other forums it sounds like it is a likely canidate for Bears; but without actual recovered bullets and related experences from others its really hard to speculate on that. I do know for sure that just common 250gr Rem Corelokts and Federals shells in .338 will flatten a big bear if you hit it correctly and I never saw one that was interested in another one the minute I hit them with one of them........................ I had some get back up and try their very best to get reorganized, as I was continuing to fire at them, but never saw one yet that wanted anything but to get as far away from those 250s flying at him as he possible could! It most certainly; will take the fight right outta them. I think there has been alot of larger calibers show up in Alaska since I was messing around back then and I here alot about .416 all over the place etc and this 375 Ruger seams to be the rage at the moment but to be honest with ya . I dont know that you would need that, when a 338 worked just fine for the last fourty years........ So I think it can become like the guy that wants to use a 300 Weatherby to shoot a deer at 100yds when hundreds of thousands have been killed stone dead with one shot from a .270? Why?
There were always guides around that had a .458 for bears even back then; but it wasnt a common gun; you saw tied to the wingstrut of a Super Cub like the .338s was! I remember Bill Sims telling me one day after he found out I bought a 338; that he like the Silver Tip bullets; and I said why are you telling me that? and he said in case he saw my Cub parked somewhere; and he needed to steal a box of shells from me; thats the flavor he prefered!!!!
 
Olt T; that info on comparing a 338/06 was just something I had saved from another discussion; and was posted by a fairly knowledgeable source; but those are NOT my figures; it was his; if you go back and read the post they are both quotes; from other folks; that discussed that a few years ago on the internet and I saved the info............................ the link to view the compleate posting if your interested as it is quite long and very informative http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/sho ... elen/page2

Gerry I hear you loud and clear on the Sako jaming.......... I personally always wanted a Model 70 pre 64 to build into a Whelen but just never did it . But that was exactly why I wanted one and the control feed feature . So when Ruger decided to offer the Hawkeye in a limited run in the Whelen with the control feed and postive extraction features that model offers . I almost leaped outta my chair to order one PRONTO ............ as I felt I could own a Stainless Steel low maintance rifle with all of the features I like in a gun in one of the finest calibers there ever was. That gun toped off with a Zeiss 2-8 Conquest does everything I need to do; and as well as a pre64 would have done; for about half of what it would have cost to build up a Model 70........................ you might want to look for one and jack the 375R and the Sako!!!! Good Luck.
 
Thanks for the insight, 35W. Based on those comments and others seen here and elsewhere AND first-hand accounts from folks I know, I'd bet the 225 AccuBond would do the job with style. If a Remington Core-Lokt is up to it, an AccuBond HAS to be.
 
I am with 35 Whelen here. After having the 338WM and 35 Whelen for awhile. I can't really see any difference between the two of them shooting 250gr PT's in both. The 338WM does run the 250 at about 2730 or so, while the Whelen does it at 2650 with the 250. For anything 350 yards and under, they are the same rifle to me, with the edge going to the Whelen for the carrying aspect. It would be a tough call on which rifle would go for big bears when I get the chance. The only real edge my 338 has is its in a good synthetic stock and stainless and the Whelen is wood/blued metal. But then again, never had an issue with the Whelen moving when wet, so it may just get the nod. I really would have a hard time choosing another bullet as well. That 250 PT is a penetrator of 1st class status in my book. Its Partition is pretty far forward to limit expansion, so it drives deep in both rifles. Honestly, if money were no issue, I could get rid of them both if a 358 Norma showed up!

RR, not sure just yet on the 250 AB. While a great bullet, and one I want to mess with in the Whelen, I don't think it'll hold a candle to the 250 PT in the penetration game. It would be awesome in the elk and moose category, but I think I would want a little more bullet for animals that bite back. Just my opinion though. Never shot a brown bear, but my old man did fine with my 338 and 225 TBBC's.. Scotty

BillwithGrizzlyBear.jpg


brownbear.jpg
 
gerry why not neck the 375 ruger down to 35- You would basically have a 35 Newton. How many guys can say they have that...
 
RogueRiver":pev7p3hz said:
gerry why not neck the 375 ruger down to 35- You would basically have a 35 Newton. How many guys can say they have that...

Darnit, that was my idea! I read some great articles about that exact cartridge (358 Nukapilak?)and thought of doing it to my old Ruger 300WM, but sold it. I don't like the limited brass only available from Hornady though. It would be a sweet package though. Talk about a big hitter!
 
35 Whelen,

Good stuff!
There is a guide in AK (Phil ?) that has taken Brown Bear with the 35 Whelen. He usually carries a 458 Win mag is is very well known. I am sure you know who I am thinking of.

The 35 Whelen with a 225 gr AB would work on Brown Bear but IMHO, the 250 gr PT would be a better choice.
Here is the 35 Whelen with recovered 225 gr AB and a 250 gr PT bullets from water jugs.
35WHELEN225GRAB.jpg

The 250 gr PT at 2500-2600 fps is a very potent load.
35Whelen250grPT.jpg

JD338
 
JD338":25kat4lp said:
35 Whelen,

Good stuff!
There is a guide in AK (Phil ?) that has taken Brown Bear with the 35 Whelen. He usually carries a 458 Win mag is is very well known. I am sure you know who I am thinking of.

The 35 Whelen with a 225 gr AB would work on Brown Bear but IMHO, the 250 gr PT would be a better choice.
Here is the 35 Whelen with recovered 225 gr AB and a 250 gr PT bullets from water jugs.
35WHELEN225GRAB.jpg

The 250 gr PT at 2500-2600 fps is a very potent load.
35Whelen250grPT.jpg

JD338

Jim, your pictures always make me wanna go handle my Whelen! Your right, the 250 PT and Whelen are a pretty perfect pair. Scotty
 
RogueRiver":2gy6twgj said:
gerry why not neck the 375 ruger down to 35- You would basically have a 35 Newton. How many guys can say they have that...

Such a cartridge would be potent but I tend to like factory rounds with properly headstamped brass more for some reason. pretty neat round though.
 
Such a cartridge would be potent but I tend to like factory rounds with properly headstamped brass more for some reason. pretty neat round though.

Ah, Gerry, that's my bias as well. However, Quality Cartridge will produce the cases in reasonable quantities. That would just about take away your excuse.
 
Back
Top