Help deciphering my groups

I will admit I am a little perplexed and find myself without an explanation for the groups I shot today. This was my second range session with my new stainless Tikka T3 Light in 300WSM.

Now for what has me at a loss to explain. At my first outing I used Federal Power Shock ammunition to get me on paper and shot two 100 yard 3-shot groups. Both were nice triangular clusters, one right at 1" the other slightly less than 1.125". IMHO pretty good accuracy for plane Jane cheap factory ammo. I don't know if it matters but the Federal loads were also averaging about 100fps more than the MV listed on the box. On my first range session I shot reloads using IMR 4451, although I achieved acceptable accuracy, my velocity was 150+ FPS below what was expected per Hodgdon's reloading information.

Enter reloads featuring RL-17. I got excellent velocity actually averaging 100fps above what was listed at the Hornady website with no pressure signs at all. Temp outside was a rather mild 51-60*. Now for the issue with my groups.

My 3-shot 100 yard groups consisted of two shots LITERALLY 98-99% in the same hole and one shot 1"-1.125" away from the other two. This also would occur with no set pattern, it could be shot 1 & 2 formed the bug hole and shot #3 was the flier then shot 1 & 2 would be 1"-1.125" apart and shot #3 would basically chase shot #1. My groups had no vertical stringing at all, all shots spread out strictly horizontally.

To add more confusion to confirm I wasn't experiencing a problem with my scope or mounts, I shot the same Federal factory ammo at the same target I used prior at the first range session with this rifle and the first shot chased an all ready existing bullet hole from the first time I shot this ammo, the second ended up in the center of the first 3 bullet holes from the original group. IMHO this eliminates the scope or it's mounts from being the cause for the unusual groups.

The only thing I didn't do prior to shooting my T3 was double check the action screws to confirm they were set to the proper torque settings. I don't usually take my torque wrench with me to the range so I will double check after I finish authoring this.

Could this be caused by inconsistencies in my bench form? I am using a free recoil bench form now which is still a little new to me as I use to use a rest that reduced recoil some what.

Basically has anyone ever experienced groups like this and if yes did you ever confirm the exact or at least most likely cause, and then had such groups stop occurring.

Or is this just a by product of the rifle telling me this particular charge weight of powder is not what it wants and I need to continue varying my powder charge weight as I plan on any how, as I'm concerned my loads are so hot despite no pressure signs that I might be seriously reducing the usable life of my brass. I'm looking for a MV of +/- 3000fps and all my reloads were WAY over that despite none was over book max. I should also add I never allowed the barrel to become more than warm to the touch as I've heard the rumors about Tikka's groups open up once the barrel heats up.

I have been able to develop VERY accurate reloads for quite a few rifles and I never once experienced these types of groups, so for all I know these might actually be a common occurrence, I just don't know.

It could help if you could post a picture of your target.
Keith

It sounds as if you are witnessing statistical MOA grouping. When witnessing apparent flyers randomly appearing and the group size is consistent, it is difficult to assign any other cause than statistical variation. If, on the other hand, the flyer is consistently a first or a final shot, that would be suggestive.

I have found with light rifles how you hold the rifle make a big difference. Mine like a firm tight grip and to be pulled back into my shoulder.

I would also shoot some 5 shot groups to get a better feel for the load.

The obvious wind will cause it. I would try a firm/snug pull of the rifle stock in to your shoulder. Also are you keeping the same pressure on the trigger until the rifle stops after recoil?

The problem with this is that it could be a couple of different issues. One could be your form. Are you shooting your shot string without backing away from the rifle? Consistency is gained from staying in the same shooting position. I also think that adjusting the load up or down a grain and adjusting AOL slightly might help. Lots of different variables and there can be several right answers.

Nothing is wrong....a group like you described in a T3 LWT (indeed, any LWT rifle in a hard recoiling round) in 300WSM is very good. Unless you like the aggravation/frustration/masochistic routine of shooting/bedding/etc, etc, a LWT rifle is NOT the platform for tiny groups. "Many" can shoot tiny groups with thiers, "most" cannot and "neither" is going to fail in the field to kill the trophy at any reasonable range. Concentrate on having it properly zeroed " for the first shot from a cold barrel". Even if the game runs after the first hit, and you want to shoot him again, you can still hit him again ( unless your rifle is grouping more than 4" at 100yds) Just have fun, whichever routine you take Pard!

Tjay is on to something I think. My Remington 700 MTN rifle in .280 Remington would give me very nice 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards.......................but I had to make sure I held it the same way precisely each time. It really does make more of a difference with a lighter rifle than a heavier one, but consistency is the key.

Thanks for all the helpful input. As was suggested by several astute contributors to my original request for help, I examined my bench form under a microscope of sorts, and once I figured out how to hold a light rifle securely and CONSITENTLY, like magic my groups went from 1.25" to 1.8" to 1"" to sub MOA, admittedly they were BARELY sub MOA but sub MOA they are. It all so was a great help that I shot a reload that my rifle strongly preferred.
That load is:
180grn NBT
67.5grns IMR4831
FED 215M Lrg-Rfl/Mag primer
Cronographed at 2980 FPS/MV for a six shot average
No pressure signs what so ever. Primers looked new and smooooth near effortless bolt lift
It's worth noting that my second best all around performing load was Federal blue box Power Shock ammo. I stumbled on to this loading on sale for $23 or $25 a box and bought a few just as a emergency brass supply if needed. Thankfully I was recently able to buy all the Winchester brass I will ever likely need. After four-3shot 100yrd groups, this factory loading has given me a 1'" average, well if one wished to be 100% technical I guess one could call me a liar as my group average was actually 1.030, but I'm comfortable with calling it a 1" group average. This load chronographed near identical to the IMR4831 load at a average MV of 2985, just like the Federal box claimed.

Powders that DID NOT perform well were:
IMR-4451, actually not bad accuracy but groups were from 1-3/8" to 1-7/8".
RL-17, a load of 64 grains gave me impressive speed well over 3100 , but accuracy was OK at 1.5-1.8" but had flattened primers and mild hard bolt lift.
I never stop learning or being surprised. About four months ago I bought two NIB Marlin JM stamped 336C's in 35 Remington, as I had never shot a lever action before I was expecting a rather difficult time getting the rifles to shoot well mostly because I knew I would have to learn a all together new bench form, and I was of the opinion lever action rifles simply could not equal my bolt guns accuracy, so I was prepared to accept anything under 2.5 MOA at a 100 as great. I could have not been more wrong. My supposed knowledge of lever action rifles was in reality pure ignorance and arrogance. Both rifles shot as well as any bolt gun I presently own, and load development for both rifles was the easiest I have ever done, had the best load for both rifles first range session, second load for the one rifle, third load for the second rifle.

I guess the moral of this Aesop's Fable was live and learn, but actually LEARN!.

Again thanks to those who told me what I needed to hear yet again.

Glad to hear you got things worked out. Consistent/correct shooting technique plays a HUGE roll in a rifles accuracy potential. Even slight sub MOA will kill very well a long ways out there.

OU812":1gt67001 said:

Glad to hear you got things worked out. Consistent/correct shooting technique plays a HUGE roll in a rifles accuracy potential. Even slight sub MOA will kill very well a long ways out there.

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For sure. I know I work to get the most I can from my rifles but once I get off the bench it's usually me and not the guns fault.

preacher":2ur6dztq said:

Nothing is wrong....a group like you described in a T3 LWT (indeed, any LWT rifle in a hard recoiling round) in 300WSM is very good. Unless you like the aggravation/frustration/masochistic routine of shooting/bedding/etc, etc, a LWT rifle is NOT the platform for tiny groups. "Many" can shoot tiny groups with thiers, "most" cannot and "neither" is going to fail in the field to kill the trophy at any reasonable range. Concentrate on having it properly zeroed " for the first shot from a cold barrel". Even if the game runs after the first hit, and you want to shoot him again, you can still hit him again ( unless your rifle is grouping more than 4" at 100yds) Just have fun, whichever routine you take Pard!

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Wise words!

Thanks again for the well thought out input.
Art.

Just an update. Pretty well determined the three most likely causes of at least 90% of my fliers I had no solid explanation for, ME, myself and I. Finally have learned proper bench form and wha-la nearly all of the fliers which I simply had no explanation for ceased to occur.

ART300WSM":4sk2wg48 said:

Just an update. Pretty well determined the three most likely causes of at least 90% of my fliers I had no solid explanation for, ME, myself and I. Finally have learned proper bench form and wha-la nearly all of the fliers which I simply had no explanation for ceased to occur.

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Or else the barrel finally got broke in and everything settled down.