BEARS

Europe

Handloader
Jun 18, 2014
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The last few days whether we are discussing this on one of Guy's threads or Cheyenne's lever action action thread the topic of bears has shown to be a diverse and interesting subject.

If you were to select one firearm for "hunting", and/or "protection", from any of the bears--black. brown or white, or all three. What rifle caliber. action and load would you select.

Everybody here knows that cheyenne likes and uses a Winchester 71, 348 caliber and I think the 250 gr bullet from Woodleigh for this purpose--hunting and protection-- and she uses it for all three colored bears

Your choice ?
 
I'd probably go with a .35 Whelen with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition loaded to 2600 to 2700 FPS depending on which level the rifle liked. My custom Mauser does well at 2710 FPS MV but the Remington M700 Classic get serious lockjaw at that level. I'd probably have a .44 Mag. handgun for back up though. :roll:
Paul B.
 
I tend to do most of my hunting with my .300WSM.

While it's not a "dangerous game" rifle and cartridge... a 180gr AB scooting along at 2950 is certainly enough to ruin a bear's day.

Lot's of differences between "stopping" a bear and "hunting" a bear. Most of the defensive shootings that I know the folks personally and heard the story 1st hand could have been readily accomplished with any decent centerfire rifle or a shotgun with a slug.

The shooting tends to be fast and close, with little if any aiming. I know of two that happened at bayonet range- the shooter simply stuck the rifle in the bear's face and pulled the trigger. One bear had the muzzle in its mouth when the gun went off.

The rest (maybe a half dozen) all occurred under twenty five yards with a variety of rifles and shotguns and one handgun.

Keep in mind- none of these folks were hunting bears at the time of the event. Ferreting a large coastal brown bear out of the alders that has been wounded is a much different problem than popping an Interior griz or a black bear in a random encounter on the trail or in a camp. I've went in the alders after one bear...an experience I hope to never repeat even though it was resolved without any drama...it was certainly tense for a bit.

I've been fortunate- none of my bear close encounters have resulted in defensive gunfire.
 
If I were to hunt bear in general after reading everything that has been discussed here I would have either the 35W/AI with 225gr PT - 250gr PT or the 338Wm with 225gr PT -250gr PT. Bullet weight would depend on the terrain I was hunting in, up close and personal the 250gr would get the nod
 
I'd use my .416 Rem. or .375 Ruger. You can never have a bear too dead. I've killed quite a few black bears and have been there for a lot of other kills and it really doesn't take much to kill them but the big bores are pretty spectacular when it comes to putting them down with authority. A .460 Weatherby with light bullets going fast turns a black bear into Jello.
 
Hodgeman's post points out a necessary distinction--are you discussing hunting or "stopping." For stopping a bear, whatever firearm you have at hand is better than a stick in the eye. In the three charges I've experienced, I was armed with a 300 WSM (180 grain PT) or a 7mm RM (175 grain TBBC, twice). That was what I had, and I was glad to have whatever it was. For hunting, I've taken bear with those two firearms, plus numerous others ranging from a .280 Rem to a .356 Win. I built my 358 Norma Magnum and 8X68S with grizzly in mind. The 325 WSM, 338 Federal, 358 Rem and 9.3X64 Brenneke will each work quite well for hunting, as they will for stopping if called upon to do so. My 30-06 charged with a 180 grain premium bullet will work just fine for hunting, as will the 270 WSM or 7mm WSM if the bullet is placed in a vital area. Candidly, when working in the bush with a bear, I like my Model 94 in .356 or my Model 7 in .350 Rem Mag because they are lively and seem to leap into my hand without investing a lot of time thinking about what needs to be done.
 
Having recently shot my first grizzly, I'm all fired up about bears. That makes a whopping total of four black bear and one grizzly that I've shot since 2010. Cheyenne probably does that before breakfast... :grin:

Three of those black bear were shot with the .375 and 260 grain bullets. One black bear with the .30-06 and a 165 grain bullet. The grizzly took two hits from the .30-06 and a couple from the .338 Win mag...

The other hunter's grizzly went down in less than 20 yards after one good hit from a 7mm Rem mag & 140 gr Barnes TTSX.

With my bears, the fastest death was almost tied between the two at longest range:

Black bear at 306 yards, one shot with the 260 grain AccuBond, instant drop. Bear crawled 8 - 10 feet, bleeding badly.

Black bear at 325 yards, one shot with the 165 grain Ballistic Tip. Bear ran a short distance. Ten yards? Probably less.

I shot a black bear at about 10 - 15 feet, tracking a wounded one. There was no charge, I just found him, and shot him when I saw him through an opening in the brush. The .375 ended things very quickly.

Bear can go down quickly, but also seem to be very tenacious of life when hit poorly. I find them difficult to track unless they're leaking badly.

The reaction to the hits from my bigger rifle, the .375 H&H, appeared more decisive, but the hits from the .30-06 were hardly shrugged off, with either the 200 gr Partition or the 165 Ballistic Tip. Each of the two hits I made on the grizzly with my .30-06 dropped him. That's 'cause he GOT UP after the first hit which had broken his leg and penetrated into his chest. :shock:

Kind of thinking my way through this as I type... I took the .30-06 on recommendation from my guide, and am satisfied with it, however, if I were doing the hunt again tomorrow, I'd take the .375, and I think that a shorter-barreled, lighter .375 is what I'd want for defense as well.

I like lever actions, and love that single shot Ruger of mine, but I'm most at home with a bolt action rifle, so that's what I'd choose. Might be hard to beat that laminated stock Ruger Guide Gun in .375 Ruger, with the laminated stock, stainless action & 20" barrel...

LOW power scope, like a 1.5-5x AND good iron sights please.

Guy
 
One thing of which I am quite certain, there is a world of difference in how a bear reacts depending on the adrenaline surge. An unalarmed bear that is grazing/feeding contentedly reacts differently from an animal that is alert and tense because it has winded something that alarms it. In the latter instance, I want as much mass, frontal area and velocity as I can handle well. It is one thing to take a bear, even a grizzly, with a smaller caliber when that bear is not alert and/or alarmed. Otherwise, it is mass/frontal area and velocity--the more the better.
 
DrMike":3qc40up4 said:
One thing of which I am quite certain, there is a world of difference in how a bear reacts depending on the adrenaline surge. An unalarmed bear that is grazing/feeding contentedly reacts differently from an animal that is alert and tense because it has winded something that alarms it. In the latter instance, I want as much mass, frontal area and velocity as I can handle well. It is one thing to take a bear, even a grizzly, with a smaller caliber when that bear is not alert and/or alarmed. Otherwise, it is mass/frontal area and velocity--the more the better.


Dr Mike has nailed it, plus the post made by Hodgeman, pretty well sums it up April

We are always in a "confrontational state of mind" and therefore prefer the lever --348 me, 45/70 husband-- with no scope and loaded, heavy for caliber. We are just out there too much and the odds are against us, whether it is a white, brown, black or grolar. We also dont find our choice of weapon's ( 348 and 45/70) restrictive when using them to hunt. I am not and dont want to get into a pissing match about distance be we just never find ourselves needing to take a shot when hunting past 100 yards, 150 max, so they still work.

Guy, lol--that would be a lot of bears

BTW, the only time the shotgun and the 3 slug ( crackers, plastic, lead ) come into play is when we are deliberately attempting to get a bear out of town and my husband is always with me with a 45/70.
 
Another interesting thread April,

For hunting I would go with a .340 wby loaded with 240 gr. North Forks. They were designed with the large browns in mind anyway.

Not sure for defense. Like others have said there has got to be a difference between one just minding his own business and one that is angry and looking at you for revenge. Since I have absolutely no experience with this I would go with the "bigger is better" school of thought here. Maybe a .404 Jeffery with a 400 grain NF @ around 2500 fps. That might leave a mark?????
 
H. Nailed a distinction I think important. If I ever hunt Grizz again, the 338 Jarrett gets the job. I spend four months on the alder choked streams of SW alaska. The most important factor from my perspective is portability. In particular with long guns, one you never put down,Tying on a new fly or landing a fish. I like my .45-70. A Ruger .375 would be nice as well. Obviously heavy hand guns fill the bill nicely. I have seen people leave their long gun on the beach, wade in to fish and end up with a bear between them and their gun. Just this morning I plucked a guy off a gravel bar who had a bear between he and his boat. His gun and bear spray in the boat.


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Europe":21jha6vf said:
.....

If you were to select one firearm for "hunting", and/or "protection", from any of the bears--black. brown or white, or all three. What rifle caliber. action and load would you select.

.....
Your choice ?


April, I see bear "hunting" and bear "protection" as 2 different rifles!

If bear hunting (or hunting deer/caribou with bears in area),
I'd use my scoped 9.3x62 Mauser.

If around camp, fishing or hiking with threat of bears in area.
I'd have my iron sight 458 Win Mag with me.

PS: Take 2 rifles
 
I've killed plenty of black bears and prefer the 45-70 by a large margin even though a 243 win would get the job done.

For brown and white bears (never hunted either) I'd use the biggest cartridge that own. That's presently a 375 Ruger which should be adequate. I had a 460WBY but it was more likely to kill me than anything on the muzzle end. Happy to see her gone. :>)
 
Has anyone here hunted the great bears AND African lion?

Compare the two? Just curious. Both can obviously be very dangerous.

Guy
 
I have bagged one Black Bear and put one shot into another that my friend shot running into the thick Canadian brush. So I know very little about Bears but this is what I would use.
At that time I had my Model 70 300 H & H and 180gr Winchester Silvertips bullets, with a Burris 1.75-5 powered scope.
Today I would not hesitate to still use it now and what bullet to use, I am thinking a 200gr AB at 2850 FPS would work on any Grizzly and my standard load with 180gr AB for Black Bear at 3000 FPS
After seeing Guy's great bear it has made me wanting to do a Bear hunt again.
 
Guy, I can only, of course ,give you my opinion and others might feel differently. My most enjoyable brown beat hunt was on Kodiak and based upon that hunt brown bear hunting is nothing like lion hunting. We spot and stalked and I never felt any fear. I felt uneasy whenever I was hunting Africa, I loved it, but there was always that sense of danger, at least to me. Once I heard the roar of the lion in an uncaged arena and the same arena I was in and having read before the hunt that they can run 100 yards in 3 to 4 seconds, heightened my senses to say the least. It was much more of an adrenaline rush of me. I might note that a brown bear can run 50 yards in 3 to 4 seconds and that also makes one to take pause. But both brownies that bluff charged us while fishing, never scared me for some reason. Obviously everyone will feel differently but this was the only way I could answer your question, was through my eyes and feelings

Ray, I agree, but based upon previous discussions about shotguns, etc as well as hunting, was the exact reason I ask --if you could take only one for hunting and for protection, what would the one choice. One sample is cheyenne, she uses the 348 for both purposes.

Dr Mike, the model 94 --356---that is a sweet choice!
 
salmonchaser":1tm8nyam said:
H. Nailed a distinction I think important. If I ever hunt Grizz again, the 338 Jarrett gets the job. I spend four months on the alder choked streams of SW alaska. The most important factor from my perspective is portability. In particular with long guns, one you never put down,Tying on a new fly or landing a fish. I like my .45-70. A Ruger .375 would be nice as well. Obviously heavy hand guns fill the bill nicely. I have seen people leave their long gun on the beach, wade in to fish and end up with a bear between them and their gun. Just this morning I plucked a guy off a gravel bar who had a bear between he and his boat. His gun and bear spray in the boat.


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I agree with you 100%---the rifle is literally an extension of my arm!

To me leaving your gun in the boat or on the beach is beyond stupid!!

several of you have mentioned handguns and to me they are better than nothing, but not the best for bear defense, unless you have practiced practiced practiced at removing the gun from the holster and shooting at a moving target coming straight toward you. For defense I am also not a fan of the single shot rifle. Now some here are the exception for sure. I know Guy has extensive training with a handgun
 
Thankful Otter":11p36nes said:
Now some here are the exception for sure. I know Guy has extensive training with a handgun

I'd still rather have a rifle. A .45/70 Marlin with good ammo would be GREAT!

Guy
 
I do a lot of practice with handguns, and even do a "bear charge" drill with a remote control car. Even with a lot of practice it is a poor replacement for a rifle. The biggest advantage with a handgun is that you can fire it from your back with a bear on top of you. For that reason I prefer a short double action revolver or 10mm auto. I also have a strong preference for chest holsters as they are less likely to be hindered by waders or a pack frame, and can be drawn while balled up. The handgun is a point blank weapon of last resort.

I would want a rifle. Probably a shorter rifle in adequate cartridge to penetrate well while still doing significant soft tissue damage. As much as I like lever guns I rarely find myself carrying them and usually have a bolt action. My 375 RUM would be what I considered my "bear gun"

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One thing no one has mentioned, IT MUST HAVE A LIGHT! I credit this light as stopping a charge and keeping me from handing to shoot a brown bear. Up handshaking close it acts like a big red dot, 10-15 feet away and the bullet hits the center of the light pattern.
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