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 Post subject: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Who runs some upward pressure between the forend and the barrel?

Shaking down a second hand Howa Stainless in 243, with a sporter barrel. Thing would put several shots touching or near to it, then throw one or two up to an inch and a half away.

Made up a spacer near the tip of the forend, enough upward pressure to raise the point of impact by six inches at 100y. The rifle is a consistent and solid 0.8moa proposition now, with minimal load development.

Before applying the bump, the rifle was well and truly free floated. Any thoughts on why some rifles do so well floated and others, just don’t?


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
Posts: 1022
I'm convinced there's not an "absolute best way" when it comes to all that. I own and have shot some very good shooting rifles that are not bedded, and pressure pointed up front. In fact the sporter rifle I would drag out if there was money on the line in an accuracy match, is just that.

In general though, if they are properly bedded, free floated up front is the way to go. Properly, is the optimum word. But the facts are some guns REALLY like just a snug fit in the recoil lug area with either a wood stock or a stout plastic stock, and pressure up front.


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:20 pm
Posts: 29372
Location: Northern Virginia
I was just saying over on 24HCF, my sons MK5 was a BEAR till I bedded the forend tip. After that, even in the plastic stock it has been excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Thanks Scotty I saw that.

Shady, seems you’re right.


It’s still a somewhat vexing question for me. Something to experiment with going forward I guess.


Anyway the good news is I tried the bump before embarking on a maddening odyssey of trying a million different load combos. It seems to shoot several different combos well now - I’ve thrown a few at it today and despite the wind it’s doing all I can ask!


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:37 am
Posts: 663
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Worked on this bunny about 200 yards!

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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 am
Posts: 6485
Location: East Coast
Bob I think it has something to do with barrel harmonics.
I had a Weatherby Vanguard in 300 Wby that had a plastic stock that was not impressive and the stock just couldn't handle the recoil the cartridge generated.
I put it in a B&C Medalist stock with full bedding block which had the pressure point in the forend tip with little improvement on accuracy. I decided to remove the pressure in steps till I found what worked best and as I lighten the pressure the groups started shrinking and achieved the best groups with no pressure.
Had the same thing happen with a Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 338 Win mag and cured the problem the same way but with an H&S Precision stock with a full metal bedding block similar to the B&C.
Both of these rifles had stiff magnum contour barrels, I have experienced where light weight barrels tend to whip more with recoil and needed more support since the barrel never was in the same location when the bullet left the barrel causing it to spray the shots and shooting large groups.
Not always but sometimes lighter barrels need more support and the barrel will let you know what it likes.
So you need to experiment with degrees of pressure till you find what the barrel likes.


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:45 pm
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Location: Cheyenne, WY
Some rifles just need it. For example.....All of the weatherbies (sans a few models) have this. Getting a MKV Ultralight weight to shoot without it is a BEAR!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:12 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:27 pm
Posts: 1372
As it is not an exact science, the only way to know what your particular rifle/load combo is going to like is through experimentation.
All part of the experience!


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 am
Posts: 1022
Agreed Gil. I always try them the way they are first if not bedded and pressure pointed up front. Because occasionally you run across one that the only thing you might do is make it worse as it would be almost impossible to improve on. They flat out shoot.

Beyond that I tend to do it in steps. Bed the recoil lug area and tang while letting them pressure pointed and try them. If they're not doing super, after that I'll free float them because it's easy enough to put a pressure point back in if they happen to be worse off. Most times though on a gun that's giving some fits, that's the ticket to getting some consistency out of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 711
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.
I want a free floated barrel if possible so I always remove the bumps often found in factory stocks and start from there.
I think the factory bumps help modulate the oscillation of the barrel. Seldom does this give tiny groups but it will allow passable groups for most shooters.
I've also noticed many shooters and handloaders have problems finding a node then tuning the handload to take full advantage of it. So for a lot of shooters that factory upward pressure provides all the accuracy they need.

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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:05 am 

Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:05 am
Posts: 720
FOTIS wrote:
Some rifles just need it. For example.....All of the weatherbies (sans a few models) have this. Getting a MKV Ultralight weight to shoot without it is a BEAR!!!!


I wish my brother would of read this. He has a Mark V in 300 Weatherby and before he ever shot it he had a gunsmith pillar bed it and free float the barrel. Big Mistake.
Problem he has is it is just not consistent but I wonder if it might just be the 300 Weatherby, he shoots it off a lead sled. I never have used a lead sled just figured if I can’t handle the recoil it is just to much gun.

Now he has a rifle he just does not have confidence in so he is taking his Vanguard 30-06 to Alaska.
Most times the Manufacture knows best.


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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:32 am
Posts: 172
Location: US South
Blkram wrote:
As it is not an exact science, the only way to know what your particular rifle/load combo is going to like is through experimentation.
All part of the experience!


Yep, I use aluminum duct tape for forearm pressure.

Sometimes forearm pressure don't work.
Sometimes its not best at the end.
Al Duct tape can be added and moved for experimenting.

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 Post subject: Re: Forend Tip Pressure
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:59 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Holland, MI
1100 Remington Man wrote:
FOTIS wrote:
Some rifles just need it. For example.....All of the weatherbies (sans a few models) have this. Getting a MKV Ultralight weight to shoot without it is a BEAR!!!!


I wish my brother would of read this. He has a Mark V in 300 Weatherby and before he ever shot it he had a gunsmith pillar bed it and free float the barrel. Big Mistake.
Problem he has is it is just not consistent but I wonder if it might just be the 300 Weatherby, he shoots it off a lead sled. I never have used a lead sled just figured if I can’t handle the recoil it is just to much gun.

Now he has a rifle he just does not have confidence in so he is taking his Vanguard 30-06 to Alaska.
Most times the Manufacture knows best.


It's the Lead Sled.

I've been helping a friend load for his 300 Weatherby Vanguard. He used a Lead Sled the first 2 outings, and today I had him use bags instead. We had 3 Vanguards, and today he went from 223 to 270 Win to 300 Wby. His groups were 1/3 or less the size of when he was on the Lead Sled, and he had a chance to practice form using the "same" rifle in progressively larger cartridges.

Ditch the Sled, and if the recoil is too much put a brake on it or move to a different cartridge.

I float and bed virtually all of my Weatherbys with no ill effects and usually notable improvement.


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