Gransel Fitz

As is obvious, I have been looking back through some older stuff lately. I find it most interesting. my girlfriend bought about two dozen hunting magazines from the late 30's and 40's with lots of input from Ned Roberts and the like.

Gransel Fitz is a character that really sticks out in my mind. He took every big game animal in North America with a Sporterized '03 in .30-06 - does anyone know some of the loads he used?

The articles I have seen aren't as explicatory as the ones nowadays about loads but his Springfield rifle was seldom left at home when Mr. Fitz was found in the field.

I don't know, but back then there weren't a lot of choices. I believe all that was avail was:

150 soft point
180 soft point
220 soft point

Dad used 220 gr Winchester Silvertips for bear back in the 1950's.

Personally I do not. But like Guy if I were to hunt EVERYTHING in NA my load would be

RL-17 200 Nosler Partition at 2750 fps.

John Barness used the 200 NP for quite a while when he had no other rifles at some point. Used it at 2650 fps from antelope to elk. Not a huge selection of powders back then.

For the heavier bullets Gransel was probably using 4831, and the 150's, 4895 or 4064. There were not many other choices. A peek at my 1958 PO Ackley Reloading Handbook is interesting.

Yeah I was thinking probably a 180 for everything but bears where he likely would turn to a 220. Although I think a 180 Partition at 2700 fps would probably be all the bullet you'd need in a .30-06 even for griz. O'Connor talks about killing a grizzly bear in his book "The Rifle" in 1939 with 180 grain Corelokts out of a .30-06.

Guy Miner":32nimwia said:

Dad used 220 gr Winchester Silvertips for bear back in the 1950's.

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I shot my first 2 big game animals back in 1989 when I was 20 with that exact load, first a black bear and then a few weeks later a cow moose. They obviously worked but I did experience a jacket/core separation on the second shot on the moose that hit the spine, the first through the lungs sailed right through.

Guy Miner wrote:
Dad used 220 gr Winchester Silvertips for bear back in the 1950's.

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We started using Noslers after a few failures with Silvertips (in a 300 Savage) and Sierra 180's, (in an 06). I believe my first Mulie buck was killed with a 150 Partition, in 61.

We started using Noslers after a few failures with Silvertips (in a 300 Savage) and Sierra 180's, (in an 06). I believe my first Mulie buck was killed with a 150 Partition, in 61.[/quote]


Did you use a .30-06 for this first mulie? I have used these bullets in my .30-06 for deer but feel like they would be a fine killer up through elk as long as there aren't any Texas heart shots taken.

I have killed a number of deer with the 06, but I was always using the 150 PT. It was my dad and grandfather that had trouble. With the 300 Savage. It was with bullet disintegration with the Silvertips on both deer and elk. A raking shot on a spike elk left a lot of hamburger on the left side. With the Sierra 180's my dad put three of them in the near shoulder of a large Roosevelt Bull and several miles and numerous shots later recovered the bull. None of them broke the shoulder bone, nor penetrated through the shoulder bone. This occurred in 57 or 58 and the Spike a during the same time frame. On elk I used the 180 PT in the 06, for elk up until 70, when I bought my 300WM. Have never had a problem, with fragmentation or excessive meat lose except when lots of bones were encountered.

A typical 180 grain bullet seems to be just about the trick for elk when matched with a .30-06 or most any other .308 caliber rifle. I have used the 165 Partitions as well between 2750 and 2800 with great luck on elk, it seems to be just heavy enough for the pass through where the 150 PT seldom does if you get a shoulder.

With H4350 the 150-180 range of Partitions shoot well in my Model 70.

The Hornady flat base spitzers seem to also shoot quite tight in my rifle.

Have you ever hunted elk with that .300 Savage?

Have you ever hunted elk with that .300 Savage?

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Nope, when my grandfather died it disappeared. I believe that someone from the other side of the family ended up with it. Those 99's were a piece of art, workmanship and craftsmanship was outstanding.

I'm pretty sure Gransel Fitz's rifle wasn't a sporterized 03 but a 1917 rifle or a Remington M30. IIRC from pictures it had the dogleg bolt handle and Enfield Safety on the right side of the action.

Found a picture of it.

Well I will be darned. This is just like the old argument as to whether Sgt. York used the Enfield or Springfield or whether T.R.'s '03 was a 30-03 or a 30-06.

Hard to argue with a picture.

Thanks Taylorce.

Well, unlike Gransel, I am not famous, nor have I killed every game animal in North America. However when I hunted during the 1950's, with my Dad's .30-06 Mauser. I was hunting mostly in Quebec and in Maine. I used the Winchester Power Point 180 grain RN until 1963 when I bought a .30-06, Model 725 Remington rifle, started handloading and switched to the 165 Partition for all .30-06 with IMR 4350 powder. Deer hunting back then was mostly jump shooting with a 2.5X scope at 30-70 yards in heavy timber. About that same era, I also bought a 1947 Model 94, .32 Win Spec and used it for jump shooting for 50+ years.

What was your load behind the 165 Partition? That is my go-to bullet in my .30-06 as well.

That .32 Win Special was a neat cartridge. Passed up a Model 63 about 10 years ago. Big mistake.

My favorite "jump shoot" gun is my Savage 99 EG in .300 Savage. I have a scope on it right now but prefer the open sights for that kind of game. I have a 2.5-8x on my .30-06 if I need a scoped rifle.

I am still using the same .30-06 load as I did in 1963: it is 57.5 grs or IMR 4350 with BR2 primer, Norma (Nosler) brass, plus, a 165 gr Partition bullet at about 2850 fps. Load can when I do my part, shoot 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards.

Oldtrader3":xxntn15y said:

I am still using the same .30-06 load as I did in 1963: it is 57.5 grs or IMR 4350 with BR2 primer, Norma (Nosler) brass, plus, a 165 gr Partition bullet at about 2850 fps. Load can when I do my part, shoot 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards.

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57.4 grs of IMR4350 with 165 gr. Partition or 165 gr. AccuBond in my 30-06. That has been the go-to load in two 30-06 rifles I have owned. Great bullets and performance. In my Ruger #1B with the 26" barrel it chronographs just a bit faster at about 2920-2940 fps. Awesome performance though and I've taken several elk with it, deer, and antelope. My longest shot on an animal was a really nice antelope buck, no wind, broadside, and 500+ long yards away. Love that cartridge!

Those are great loads. One thing I have noticed here in Idaho is that my standby loads in Oregon seem to shoot a little hot here. My 57.0 grains of H4350 with 165 PT now shoots best at 55.5 grains and the Sierra Gameking of the same bullet weight with 54.0 grains of same powder is also shooting a lot hotter. The latter load with the Sierra is actually backing out primers - that is something I have never seen in this rifle with any of the loads I have tried in it.

Is it the altitude? I am at roughly 4200 ft above sea level here in Idaho where I was at about 1750 where I lived in Oregon. Does any of this factor in?

6mm - Do you notice any difference in recoil or pressure between the IMR and H 4350 powders? Or is it just differences in lots or the altitude?

Absolutely, elevation factors in, Randy. For this reason, people are always well advised to check their zero and pressure when developing a load that will be shot at a different elevation, especially if that elevation varies by a thousand or more feet.

gerry":2xel7sd3 said:

Guy Miner":2xel7sd3 said:

Dad used 220 gr Winchester Silvertips for bear back in the 1950's.

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I shot my first 2 big game animals back in 1989 when I was 20 with that exact load, first a black bear and then a few weeks later a cow moose. They obviously worked but I did experience a jacket/core separation on the second shot on the moose that hit the spine, the first through the lungs sailed right through.

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gerry you make feel like an old man. I was 40years young and in my prime when you were 20 and still wet behind the ears. :roll: :lol: :mrgreen: