I am thinking about a new rifle for my wife and or daughter to hunt white-tail. I have been considering the Win. Mod 70 in one of the new supershort cartridges., either .243 or .257. Anyone had any experience with either for a small inexperienced shooter? Also anyting on performance compared to the win .243 or the 25-06.
.243 or .257 WSSM for a small person?
- Thread starter rodhuston
- Start date
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,805
- 399
I would opt for the 25 WSSM. I am not particularly fond of 6mm caliber. Been partial to .257" ever since I got my first 25-06. It is an AWESOME coyote/antelope/deer rifle. I have made several 1 shot kills out to 604 yards on these animals mentioned above with the 115g BT. I would assume the report on both rifles would be the same with the blast and recoil. There really isn't much difference between the two with 100g bullets. The real ticket is that you can shoot the 110g AB or 115g BT out of the .257's. I doubt a whitetail will know the difference out to 500 yards though.
I have to agree, go with the 25 WSSM. The problem most people make when choosing a small, light-kicking caliber for kids/women is to go too small. Most people just starting out, get nervous and/or are not expert shots therefore the possibility of wounding game is increased. You have to ask yourself when choosing a caliber, which one would I want if my son or daughter misses the mark and shoots a deer square in the stomach. Choose the wrong caliber and they may never hunt again.....I'd also look at the 260 Remington and 7mm-08 in that same regard...good luck.
Brad
Brad
I have no experience with the WSSM's. I agree with AggieDog about the .260 Remington, though. Either that or a 6.5x55 Swedish. The Model 70 doesn't come in .260 Rem but it does come in 6.5x55 in the Model 70 Featherweight.
I think the WSSM's might have a little too much muzzle blast (and recoil velocity, ie: faster jab) for most women. But, as I said above, I have no experience with the WSSM's. IMHO, the best lady's and beginner's deer/big game cartridges are:
.257 Roberts (better to handload for it)
.260 Rem
6.5x55 Swedish (better to handload for it)
7-08 Rem
7x57 Mauser (better to handload for it)
But, get whatever makes you happy. BIG HINT: Let HER have a big say in the final decision as to which rifle and cartridge!!
-Bob F.
I think the WSSM's might have a little too much muzzle blast (and recoil velocity, ie: faster jab) for most women. But, as I said above, I have no experience with the WSSM's. IMHO, the best lady's and beginner's deer/big game cartridges are:
.257 Roberts (better to handload for it)
.260 Rem
6.5x55 Swedish (better to handload for it)
7-08 Rem
7x57 Mauser (better to handload for it)
But, get whatever makes you happy. BIG HINT: Let HER have a big say in the final decision as to which rifle and cartridge!!
-Bob F.
roysclockgun
Handloader
- Dec 17, 2005
- 736
- 0
rodhuston wrote: "I am thinking about a new rifle for my wife and or daughter to hunt white-tail."
When I see these questions, I always think: "For whatever reason this person is recoil sensitive, will that mean that they can go afield undergunned to avoid the recoil and still be able to cleanly, humanely kill game using a rifle/cartridge that many experienced hunters avoid?"
Would it not be better for the novice to use a cartridge that will provide a more effecient wound channel and simply go to the range a couple times until they feel comfortable with the firearm? If a small statured person gets in some range time and has the desire to hunt, there is no reason why they would not get used to firing .308Win and larger cartridges very quickly, provided that the rifle fits and they maintain their desire.
Most experienced hunters who use small calibers like 6mm/.243 for deer, do so because they have the utmost confidence in their ability to use that cartridge well and to make clean kills. Giving a novice deer hunter a .243Win chambered rifle to use on their first deer hunt is an unfair handicap. I, in no way, want to enter a spitting contest over how tiny a cartridge can be and still be "adequate" for using to kill deer. I have said before, I know people who shoot deer with rifles chambered in .22 rimfire magnum, but that does not make .22 rimfire magnum a good choice for a novice deer hunter, even though the .22 rimfire magnum has very little recoil! Get the novice, no matter how small, enough rifle/cartridge combo that will be a little forgiving in the case of the novice hunter firing a tad off the mark of the heart/lung area, or if the novice gets nervous and fires at the butt of a retreating deer. Get the novice enough "gun" and have them practice. Most will find that the dreaded "kick" is not the boogey man that they had imagined and once they conquer their fears and learn to use enough "gun", their work will pay huge dividends in the field.
About the WSSM family: I am convinced that many of the new shorty cartridges will suffer a huge shake out and will not be around for long. Maybe I am wrong, but do you want to gamble on that? Buy a proven field performer in a rifle/cartridge combo. Buy your novice a rifle that uses a minimum of a 6.5mm bullet. Nothing wrong with the .260Rem. I personally would go with a 7mm cartridge, simply because the rifleman with that 7mm bullet will have a great selection of ammo from which to choose. For light recoil, go with the 7-08 or the classic 7x57Mauser. For more versatility, go with .280Rem. Even a Magnum cartridge can be loaded down to produce less recoil during the initial range work and for hunting where the highest muzzle velocity is not called for. Any number of fine rifles and cartridges are out there that will do the job, just use enough gun!
When I see these questions, I always think: "For whatever reason this person is recoil sensitive, will that mean that they can go afield undergunned to avoid the recoil and still be able to cleanly, humanely kill game using a rifle/cartridge that many experienced hunters avoid?"
Would it not be better for the novice to use a cartridge that will provide a more effecient wound channel and simply go to the range a couple times until they feel comfortable with the firearm? If a small statured person gets in some range time and has the desire to hunt, there is no reason why they would not get used to firing .308Win and larger cartridges very quickly, provided that the rifle fits and they maintain their desire.
Most experienced hunters who use small calibers like 6mm/.243 for deer, do so because they have the utmost confidence in their ability to use that cartridge well and to make clean kills. Giving a novice deer hunter a .243Win chambered rifle to use on their first deer hunt is an unfair handicap. I, in no way, want to enter a spitting contest over how tiny a cartridge can be and still be "adequate" for using to kill deer. I have said before, I know people who shoot deer with rifles chambered in .22 rimfire magnum, but that does not make .22 rimfire magnum a good choice for a novice deer hunter, even though the .22 rimfire magnum has very little recoil! Get the novice, no matter how small, enough rifle/cartridge combo that will be a little forgiving in the case of the novice hunter firing a tad off the mark of the heart/lung area, or if the novice gets nervous and fires at the butt of a retreating deer. Get the novice enough "gun" and have them practice. Most will find that the dreaded "kick" is not the boogey man that they had imagined and once they conquer their fears and learn to use enough "gun", their work will pay huge dividends in the field.
About the WSSM family: I am convinced that many of the new shorty cartridges will suffer a huge shake out and will not be around for long. Maybe I am wrong, but do you want to gamble on that? Buy a proven field performer in a rifle/cartridge combo. Buy your novice a rifle that uses a minimum of a 6.5mm bullet. Nothing wrong with the .260Rem. I personally would go with a 7mm cartridge, simply because the rifleman with that 7mm bullet will have a great selection of ammo from which to choose. For light recoil, go with the 7-08 or the classic 7x57Mauser. For more versatility, go with .280Rem. Even a Magnum cartridge can be loaded down to produce less recoil during the initial range work and for hunting where the highest muzzle velocity is not called for. Any number of fine rifles and cartridges are out there that will do the job, just use enough gun!
rodhuston,
I tend to agree with roy. He always seems to be right on the money.
Instead of limiting your choices to a short magnum, I would be inclined to go with either the 7-08 Rem or .308 Winchester. Especially with the latter, ammo companies offer mild loadings that resemble the venerale .30-30 while retaining the ability to use standard loads for big ungulates such as elk & moose. And I, too, do not believe the short magnums are long for this world.
I have a Featherweight in .308 Win, and it is an extremely versatile rifle. It is light enough to carry all day long yet able to absorb recoil. I would not want to fire a real magnum round out of that light of rifle. I have total confidence in that rifle to harvest any game in North America up to inland grizzly as long as I not go much beyond 350 yards. And when I start my son on big game rifles, he'll probably shoot it first using reduced velocity loads.
After the .300 short magnums made their debut, I was going to retire my .308 Win for one...until I started to research the idea. I get damn good velocity out of my 22" barrel, so at most I was going to gain maybe 200 FPS. Then I factored in the cost of chopping the barrel down to 22", which is what I consider ideal for a mountain rifle. Since short magnums have their velocities measured with 26" barrels, I figured I would lose about a hundred FPS using a 22" barrel. Hence, I would have incurred huge expense for a velocity gain of maybe a hundred FPS and most assuredly a loss of accuracy since my Featherweight will shoot far under MOA all day long. Ergo, I canned that idea. I am more than satisfied with my .308 Win!
The .308 Win, 7-08 Rem & even the 6.5-08 Rem are hard to beat for nearly all North American big game hunting!
Oops, don't forget that ammo is less expensive with the .308 Win, & it's available everywhere!
Good hunting,
Tom
I tend to agree with roy. He always seems to be right on the money.
Instead of limiting your choices to a short magnum, I would be inclined to go with either the 7-08 Rem or .308 Winchester. Especially with the latter, ammo companies offer mild loadings that resemble the venerale .30-30 while retaining the ability to use standard loads for big ungulates such as elk & moose. And I, too, do not believe the short magnums are long for this world.
I have a Featherweight in .308 Win, and it is an extremely versatile rifle. It is light enough to carry all day long yet able to absorb recoil. I would not want to fire a real magnum round out of that light of rifle. I have total confidence in that rifle to harvest any game in North America up to inland grizzly as long as I not go much beyond 350 yards. And when I start my son on big game rifles, he'll probably shoot it first using reduced velocity loads.
After the .300 short magnums made their debut, I was going to retire my .308 Win for one...until I started to research the idea. I get damn good velocity out of my 22" barrel, so at most I was going to gain maybe 200 FPS. Then I factored in the cost of chopping the barrel down to 22", which is what I consider ideal for a mountain rifle. Since short magnums have their velocities measured with 26" barrels, I figured I would lose about a hundred FPS using a 22" barrel. Hence, I would have incurred huge expense for a velocity gain of maybe a hundred FPS and most assuredly a loss of accuracy since my Featherweight will shoot far under MOA all day long. Ergo, I canned that idea. I am more than satisfied with my .308 Win!
The .308 Win, 7-08 Rem & even the 6.5-08 Rem are hard to beat for nearly all North American big game hunting!
Oops, don't forget that ammo is less expensive with the .308 Win, & it's available everywhere!
Good hunting,
Tom
I agree there alot of Good Choices besides the WSSM's out there.
I also didn't like the Super Short when they came out.
However after seeing and handleing a few of the rifles in them it is/was a good ideal to make them.An ideal an option that may soon fade away.
Why did I change my mind on the WSSM's,Shorter More Handy Rifle even better than the current light weight compact short actions in 243-308 calibers IMO.
On paper the 243 and 25 WSSM will match the 243 Win and 257 Roberts both have been touted as good for Kids and Ladys for years. I don't care for nor recommend the 243/6mm for the above but they will work fine with proper shot placement.I do like the 25's and don't feel a bit under gunned with one with 120gr Partitons that I use in my Roberts nor would I with 110-115 grs,neither will my uncle who just got a 25 WSSM.
I have no ideal on the recoil of the WSSM yet as I haven't shot one but I would be surprized if they are any stouter than thier longer action cousins.
I also didn't like the Super Short when they came out.
However after seeing and handleing a few of the rifles in them it is/was a good ideal to make them.An ideal an option that may soon fade away.
Why did I change my mind on the WSSM's,Shorter More Handy Rifle even better than the current light weight compact short actions in 243-308 calibers IMO.
On paper the 243 and 25 WSSM will match the 243 Win and 257 Roberts both have been touted as good for Kids and Ladys for years. I don't care for nor recommend the 243/6mm for the above but they will work fine with proper shot placement.I do like the 25's and don't feel a bit under gunned with one with 120gr Partitons that I use in my Roberts nor would I with 110-115 grs,neither will my uncle who just got a 25 WSSM.
I have no ideal on the recoil of the WSSM yet as I haven't shot one but I would be surprized if they are any stouter than thier longer action cousins.
rkymt hunter
Beginner
- Jan 29, 2006
- 28
- 0
I have a browning 243 wssm for about a year now shoot it a couple a times a month , shoots a good group (once i got the load right) does a real job on coyotes, recoil is easy, easy to handle my son loves it (13) havn't shot any deer yet but 1 antlope a close shot 113 yard never moved a step for mule deer out west a shoot 7 mag but i like the wssm you can load them pretty good the alone draw back is loading with the bolt i need to be firm with them because of the spring tension in the mag but other than that i would buy another one and most likly will 223 wssm
good luck
good luck
Sounds like you might want that WSSM for yourself. For a small person, woman or child I like the .260rem (6.5x55 same thing almost). It's a much better deer round than a .243. Muzzle blast is mild from a 22" bbl. It's qquite effective w/ 120gr-129gr bullets, you could even stretch the 140gr for small elk. you can buy Rem. brass cheap, or make brass from match grade .243 for cheap. What's not to like here?
let her look ata the rifel and pic what she wants then she is happpy and will be willing to shoot it more with you as for me my son shots a 25-06 with a 4 inch recoil tub in the stock the recoil now is like a 223 he has killed 2 deer 3 antelop and 3 elk all with the same gun and same bullet 120 grain Partition my wife who is 4' 11" also shoots a 25-06 with only a linb saver recoil pad on it and she loves it but she picked the gun good luck and happy huntting with your wife 
