I’m hoping to load some heavier ABLR’s in my Kimber. The 168s are probably a better fit for this caliber but I already have 4 boxes of the 175s. With the high bc, this bullet would still seem to have enough velocity and energy to take an elk to well over 600 yards, which is plenty of range for me with this light weight rifle. Nosler load data shows 3 powders that I have - h4831, rl26, staball HD, and h1000. I’m looking for some advice. Where would you start with these powders? Would you consider a magnum primer? Any other wisdom you would be willing to share? Thanks for any advice
280 ai with a heavier ABLR (168 or 175)
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Blkram
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2013
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Despite what the current fad/trend of long range shooting and hunting may lead one to believe, most elk are taken within 200 yards, not the 600 that seems to be what everyone is reporting today, even amongst the outfitters.
I have taken over two dozen elk of my own over the years, with only two over 300 yards, with one at 370 (cow), and the the other was at 475 (bull; and only two more at more than 200 yards), with my 7MM STW, but I severely under estimated the range on that one, thinking it was at 400 in the hayfield, and was grateful that I was using such a flat shooting caliber that allowed a hit with that first shot. I made a correction on the follow up shot when I realized that it was farther. (I didn't have a rangefinder yet, but my friend did and we ranged the distance afterwards.) The rest have been taken between 5 and 150 yards! (Including in out in the wide open, and not just in the parkland or thick timber.)
Even the 280AI's Federal 155 gr Terminal Ascent and Nosler 160 gr AccuBond factory ammo will produce enough energy with these premium bonded bullets to retain today's recommended retained energy of 1500+ ft lbs of energy at 500 yards and SDs of .275+ for good penetration. And have more than 2100 fps of retained velocity for proper expansion, with BCs of more than .500.
The 7mm bullets of 160/162/165 gr weights seem to be the optimum weight for most traditional .284" caliber cartridges, with 1:10 to 1:9 twist rates. (I have been using this caliber for almost 40 years now, hunting, shooting, and handloading; man, where has the time gone!) Of these, I have and used the 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 7MM STW most for elk, but have also used a number of other cartridges/calibers from 6.5 to .375 on elk over the years. My favourite for elk is the 338 caliber for all around performance, but have taken most with the 7 mils.
The newer cartridges with 1:8 twist barrels do well with the heavier bullets for more retained velocity and energy at longer distances that what was deemed to be reasonable in the past. I know, as I am enjoying my new 7mm PRC, and it shoots the 170 gr Terminal Ascent ammo well, and will retain almost 2300 fps and almost 2000 ft lbs of retained energy at 500 yards, due to a BC of .646 and a SD of .301, which is pretty cool, I will admit.. (I do subscribe to the older recommendation of 2000 ft lbs of energy for elk, as I have witnessed first hand on my own, as well as many other elk harvested by guided hunters, and friends, over the years, that when dealing with rut crazed bulls the extra energy is greatly appreciated! And warranted! Unwary bulls that are not adrenalin filled due to the rut react completely different to well placed shots.)
It is nice to have that capacity...but is it really needed for long distance elk? Not really...but if you are a hunter on a once in a lifetime hunt, it is nice to have that factor of safety. If you are someone who will get to hunt elk every year, and the environment is such that the shot will be most often within reasonable distances of 300 yards or less, than you may not need it.
As for the primers; if you are using 60+ grains of powder, and/or may be shooting/hunting in colder temperatures, than a magnum primer would be beneficial. But you can try magnum and non-magnum to see which performs best in your rifle/handload combination.
In the end, only you can decide what will serve you best under most circumstances you will encounter, and which bullet/ammo/handload shoots best in your rifle.
Best of luck in your quest!
I have taken over two dozen elk of my own over the years, with only two over 300 yards, with one at 370 (cow), and the the other was at 475 (bull; and only two more at more than 200 yards), with my 7MM STW, but I severely under estimated the range on that one, thinking it was at 400 in the hayfield, and was grateful that I was using such a flat shooting caliber that allowed a hit with that first shot. I made a correction on the follow up shot when I realized that it was farther. (I didn't have a rangefinder yet, but my friend did and we ranged the distance afterwards.) The rest have been taken between 5 and 150 yards! (Including in out in the wide open, and not just in the parkland or thick timber.)
Even the 280AI's Federal 155 gr Terminal Ascent and Nosler 160 gr AccuBond factory ammo will produce enough energy with these premium bonded bullets to retain today's recommended retained energy of 1500+ ft lbs of energy at 500 yards and SDs of .275+ for good penetration. And have more than 2100 fps of retained velocity for proper expansion, with BCs of more than .500.
The 7mm bullets of 160/162/165 gr weights seem to be the optimum weight for most traditional .284" caliber cartridges, with 1:10 to 1:9 twist rates. (I have been using this caliber for almost 40 years now, hunting, shooting, and handloading; man, where has the time gone!) Of these, I have and used the 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, and 7MM STW most for elk, but have also used a number of other cartridges/calibers from 6.5 to .375 on elk over the years. My favourite for elk is the 338 caliber for all around performance, but have taken most with the 7 mils.
The newer cartridges with 1:8 twist barrels do well with the heavier bullets for more retained velocity and energy at longer distances that what was deemed to be reasonable in the past. I know, as I am enjoying my new 7mm PRC, and it shoots the 170 gr Terminal Ascent ammo well, and will retain almost 2300 fps and almost 2000 ft lbs of retained energy at 500 yards, due to a BC of .646 and a SD of .301, which is pretty cool, I will admit.. (I do subscribe to the older recommendation of 2000 ft lbs of energy for elk, as I have witnessed first hand on my own, as well as many other elk harvested by guided hunters, and friends, over the years, that when dealing with rut crazed bulls the extra energy is greatly appreciated! And warranted! Unwary bulls that are not adrenalin filled due to the rut react completely different to well placed shots.)
It is nice to have that capacity...but is it really needed for long distance elk? Not really...but if you are a hunter on a once in a lifetime hunt, it is nice to have that factor of safety. If you are someone who will get to hunt elk every year, and the environment is such that the shot will be most often within reasonable distances of 300 yards or less, than you may not need it.
As for the primers; if you are using 60+ grains of powder, and/or may be shooting/hunting in colder temperatures, than a magnum primer would be beneficial. But you can try magnum and non-magnum to see which performs best in your rifle/handload combination.
In the end, only you can decide what will serve you best under most circumstances you will encounter, and which bullet/ammo/handload shoots best in your rifle.
Best of luck in your quest!
I have used the 175 ABLR to take a handful of elk with a few at 600 yards give or take a few yards either side. It’s a great bullet. When you mention wanting to use them in your Kimber I’d load up a test cartridge first and see if it functions. I love the Kimbers but the 84Ls are very limited in OAL. I wanna say that 3.300 is about all you can get out of them and still get a loaded round out of the gun.
H4831, H1000 and RL26 would all work for the 175, but I’d load up a test cartridge first and make sure it works in the gun. I do know you’ll be close to the ogive of the bullet which won’t give you much flexibility in regards to tuning via seating depths.
H4831, H1000 and RL26 would all work for the 175, but I’d load up a test cartridge first and make sure it works in the gun. I do know you’ll be close to the ogive of the bullet which won’t give you much flexibility in regards to tuning via seating depths.
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This Kimber is my backpack and woods rifle. It is unlikely to see many shots past about 4-500 yards on anything, but I want the ability to do so. My 28 nosler is the more dedicated “long range setup” but is much less handy to pack around.
Thank you for the insight re: case length. I guess the good news with the 3.3” limitation is that there won’t be much tweaking of seating depth. It either shoots at that length or it doesn’t and I won’t want to go any shorter than that either due to the bullet length. I measured about 3.401” oal to the lands, but of course that won’t fit in the mag.
I do have several hundred 160 accubonds as well, so I won’t mess around much with the 175 unless something looks very promising early. I just didn’t see the load data for most of the powders I own with the 160’s. Thanks again
Thank you for the insight re: case length. I guess the good news with the 3.3” limitation is that there won’t be much tweaking of seating depth. It either shoots at that length or it doesn’t and I won’t want to go any shorter than that either due to the bullet length. I measured about 3.401” oal to the lands, but of course that won’t fit in the mag.
I do have several hundred 160 accubonds as well, so I won’t mess around much with the 175 unless something looks very promising early. I just didn’t see the load data for most of the powders I own with the 160’s. Thanks again
- Nov 4, 2004
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I’ve been shooting a 280AI for almost 20 years. Mine is a custom 700 with a 9t Hart barrel. The heaviest bullet I’ve shot is the 168 ABLR. I’ve settled on the 150 ABLR and it is a bolt of lightning on WT deer.
My wife has a Nosler M48 in 280AI and she used the 160 PT to take her bull moose at 262 yds. She shot him 3 times but 1 was really all that was needed. Her go to load is the 140 BT.
I pretty much run RL22 and magnum primers in both rifles getting excellent speed and sub MOA accuracy.
JD338
My wife has a Nosler M48 in 280AI and she used the 160 PT to take her bull moose at 262 yds. She shot him 3 times but 1 was really all that was needed. Her go to load is the 140 BT.
I pretty much run RL22 and magnum primers in both rifles getting excellent speed and sub MOA accuracy.
JD338
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Blkram
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2013
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I also only look at the ballistics to 500 yards as that is how far our local range allows me to shoot.
So this is what I practice to regularly to attain confidence and competence, and verify my POIs on my scoped rifle/ammo combos.
After that, as a hunter first, I enjoy the hunt and the ability to get closer to my targeted quarry, despite the varied environments that I hunt in. I have rarely been temped to consider a shot past 500 yards, and even then, have had the opportunities to get much closer, and did so. While I am confident from the bench to 500, the confidence from field shooting positions, while good, just isn't at the same level as proved through practice at the range. Confidence is way higher at the closer distancesfrom field positions and off the sticks, etc.
I once considered a handloaded 110 gr TTSX in the 270 Wby for long distance shooting game at 500 yards, as from the 28" barrel on the Browning B-78 it would be moving along at about 4000 fps. But with the BC of .377 and an SD of just .205, I didn't think that this would be being responsible and using a a minimum recommended SD of .250 for big game, despite having sufficient retained velocity for reliable expansion, and retained energy for penetration...would the tough little bullet have the required mass to provide that reliable penetration, especially if something happened and it struck heavy bone, such as on an elk? Smaller deer, perhaps. I just couldn't in good conscience use it...
Over the past 39 years, (oops, just realized I need to update this as it has been 42 years...where does the time go! LOL) I have documented the shot distances and cartridges that I have taken game with, and the average shot distance is just 132 yards! (With shots ranging from 5-475 yards)
So this is what I practice to regularly to attain confidence and competence, and verify my POIs on my scoped rifle/ammo combos.
After that, as a hunter first, I enjoy the hunt and the ability to get closer to my targeted quarry, despite the varied environments that I hunt in. I have rarely been temped to consider a shot past 500 yards, and even then, have had the opportunities to get much closer, and did so. While I am confident from the bench to 500, the confidence from field shooting positions, while good, just isn't at the same level as proved through practice at the range. Confidence is way higher at the closer distancesfrom field positions and off the sticks, etc.
I once considered a handloaded 110 gr TTSX in the 270 Wby for long distance shooting game at 500 yards, as from the 28" barrel on the Browning B-78 it would be moving along at about 4000 fps. But with the BC of .377 and an SD of just .205, I didn't think that this would be being responsible and using a a minimum recommended SD of .250 for big game, despite having sufficient retained velocity for reliable expansion, and retained energy for penetration...would the tough little bullet have the required mass to provide that reliable penetration, especially if something happened and it struck heavy bone, such as on an elk? Smaller deer, perhaps. I just couldn't in good conscience use it...
Over the past 39 years, (oops, just realized I need to update this as it has been 42 years...where does the time go! LOL) I have documented the shot distances and cartridges that I have taken game with, and the average shot distance is just 132 yards! (With shots ranging from 5-475 yards)
Blkram
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2013
- 3,794
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