2000-2600fps Magic Impact velocities?

T

tjen

Handloader
Apr 25, 2007
704
1
Bullet construction is a factor but these impact velocities pretty much cover what I have done with the 35rem, 358win,and the 35 whelen. All have had drop in their racks performance with double lung / heart shots. Only the whelen has a 3 for 3 rating thus far. But there is also no exsessive brusing and those that ran 30 yards lost extreme amouts of blood due to exit holes.

The longest shots I have taken with my 270win where in the 200-250 yard range with 130 & 140gr corelokts and even those seem more explosive at least up front. Which might be required for smaller diameter hunting bullets.

Whats your experance at calulated impact velocities, with on game performance and meat damage.
 
Honestly?

90% of the time I use Nosler accubonds or partitions. I know what they can do and know their limitations. They work very well withing your mentioned velocity range. Meat damage? I never worry about it.
 
Don't know about "magic" - but modest impact velocities seem to treat bullets pretty easily. Better penetration, less destructive of the bullet & animal.

I've had that dramatic DRT result from a traditional muzzle loader, with a muzzle velocity of only 1300 fps or so. Same with a .45/70 with a mv of 1650 fps. Also with a 100 gr bullet @ 3340 fps mv, range was only 20 yards. High or low velocity I've seen a lot of instant drops, and bullet exits.

Meat damage - I'm kind of aligned with Fotis' view on this one - I don't really worry about it much, if I keep the bullet away from the backstraps! Then again, a heart/lung shot doesn't typically ruin much worthwhile meat anyway. Shoulder shot? Now that can take out some meat. Especially with a high velocity bullet.

Guy
 
I think your velocity range is ideal for most hunting bullets but post-impact affect on deer has never been predictable other than a CNS shot. This year We shot two WTs with a 115gr BT @3220fps from a 25-06. The deer weighed 115 & 120 lbs dressed weight, range was 165 & 175 yds respectively. Both quartering towards with high shoulder entrance and rear rib exits. The "smaller"doe went almost 100 yds after hit and the buck went 8 yds. Same internal trauma. Who knows...

Slower cartridges or stouter bullets,for the most part, seem to create less meat damage in my experience.
 
I do stress over meat damage, and I know velocity is one of the factors. For me the solution is shot placement. Miss the bones and you can eat up to the hole. I have experienced few DRT shots other than CSN impacts. I have seen standing 100 lb deer, break to run after being hit with a 180 gr. PT at 25 yards. Velocity was in excess of 3000 fps. Elk seldom go down immediately but are usually found within 50 yards.

One of the real eye openers I have experienced recently, is that deer hit well with an arrow, don,t go very far at all. No farther than with a rifle. A 100 gr Muzzy will also destroy some meat when hit touches shoulder bones.

Have about 10 new inches of snow her so far today.
 
I agree guy. I always try to double lung and away from the backstraps.
 
I think Guy has it down pat. Perhaps........ (Keeping in mind I agree with you Tjen for with more info following) it is more than just velocity upon impact.
IMHO....again agreeing with you on the velocities for excellent performance I'll add that it IS WITH......bigger bores. The 358, maybe 338, and on up.

My personal experiences have been ALL with bigger bore projectiles, mostly maxihunters and the like from black powder rifles and in my experience, the ol' bigger heavier bullets just knock em dead without mangling the snot out of everything.......when discussing meat damage. Ive only SEEN results from high speed bullets and always assumed (?) this was the culprit. Not saying there is anything "wrong" with such, just not my preference as well.

In a nutshell, I'm on board but feel its a combo of these speeds AND a bigger diameter projectile just getting R done with the factors they provide. I feel there IS a "sweet spot" that runs within your quoted velocities for DRT and very close to that kills without mangling more than needed meat but bullet composition and performance also takes a piece of that pie too but......even slower will work "with enough lead".

Im very happy with the performance of the 358 bullets shot this year into whitetail between Jim and I in the 350JR and they were performing within your velocities yet.......I do not believe a smaller bore bullet would have done the same so I give as much credit to the bore, bullet mass and construction as I do speed with the cake icing being the bullet performance being respectful as well.

Medium to slow moving bullets of adequate mass work.......as do the screaming meemie ones, but the former just has less tendency to "jelly" 7-9 lbs of meat and IMO, a little LESS picky about bullet placement that will still result in a quickly dropped animal. Before I get ate up by the faster bullet fan crowd, yes.......using such is still POSSIBLE to do so, yet I have to stick with them being "more likely" to create such havoc.

Ive butchered whitetail taken with some "small as possible", aka "light as possible" sabot bullets some people I know use of different mfg, but going at velocities H bent for leather (by comparison to their bigger traditional brothers) and ranges were not far. UGH.......whatta mess! There the velocities were still in the same range but the light bullet just flat SPLATTED hitting the deer since not constructed FOR those speeds......at least some of them.

A big heavy already wide on impact 54 cal slug can go through even the scapula and not ruin a LOT of meat if not REAL close range. Ive done that numberous times. Its just big and slow and punching through yet still destroys enough internals to create a quickly dead whitetail since already more than a half inch accross.

Kinda falls back to the Taylor Knock Out many, but not all, believe in.

God Bless
Steve
 
For the most part, with seening many critters both in my personal hunting and in the meat cutting vocation, it is easy to tell high/low/modest velocity impacts with most bullet designs. While I prefer not to have much blood shot meat, I think the animals state or temperment has as much to do with meat quality.
 
G'Day Fella's,

Tjen, I have a bit of a rough theory about this, and it comes about from the old British gun (ammo) making practice.
So many of those old British Nitro cartridges, had velocities around 2400fps.
I'm not sure if that was to do with the way bullets were constructed back then or what?
Anyway.....
With my own Sub .358" caliber Game hunting rifles, I like to "Safely" run them at muzzle velocities, from 2800 to 3400ish fps (.25-06, 7mm Rem Mag, .308Win & various .338Mags)!
With my own .358" and larger Game hunting caliber rifles (like so many of those British Nitro cartridges + the .318 Accelerated Express/WR), I can only "Safely" run them at maximum muzzle velocities from 2400 to 2600fps (.350 Rem Mag, .375H&H, .404 Jeffery)!!!

All of these rifles do kill game very well but you obviously have to choose the appropriate cartridge/bullet weight combo, for the game animals being hunted.

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer
 
Thru the years I've had the best results with the higher velocity rifles with the AccuBond. For impact velocities in the 2500fps or less a lot of cup and core bullets work just fine and the Partition is, of course, the best. I don't choose the Partition for 3000+ fps bullets because I find the front half will blow up more meat than the AccuBond or TSX. I don't use the TSX except in the Condor Zone here in California. I shoot for the heart/lung area and use the biggest fastest thing I can carry. I only overkilled one animal but I don't care for jack rabbit meat anyway.
 
358Win 225gr AccuBond, 2550fps using TAC and CCI 250 primers, all game down where I hit them. I miss that Hawkeye :mrgreen:
 
My thoughts were that there is a combination of caliber and velocity with trade offs to excessive meat damage or trajectory. And of corse there is the min threshold of what is needed to take each sized animal.

The 270win has worked for me on moose, elk, and lots of deer. But deer here in MI deer are rarly shot over 100 yards and even with 150gr bullets. So I found myself using the 35rem more and more. When remington offered the 35 whelen it gave me that 300 yards range if needed and to my liking very little ruined meat even with 30 yard shots. I am a tight to the leg for point of aim or aim at the off side shoulder if an angleing shot.

I also said impact velocities because even at 300 pluse yards these are likly the same impact velocities that the work so well for 6.5mm-308 mag cartidges.
 
tjen

As I recall, my 35 Whelen has taken 17 WT and a bear. 3 bucks ran, all less than 40 yds leaving a heavy blood trail. The rest, including DRT. You will continue to see similar results with yours as well.
Most of the big game animal I have shot has been taken inside the 2000-2600 impact velocity window. The bullets I have used were designed for this range and worked well.

JD338
 
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