28 Nosler Results (Savage 7mm Rem Mag Conversion Project)

[LifeAndLiberty]

Hi all, a few months ago I converted a 7mm Rem Mag Savage Model 111 (accustock, accutrigger) to 28 Nosler. I got some time today to shoot some reloads, and here are the results if anyone is interested.

To Baseline, I chronographed 160 Grain Nosler Trophy Grade Factory ammo, which had an average FPS over three shots of 3265.

28 Nosler - 175 Grain Partitions with Reloder 33 Powder
Temperature: 46 Degrees F
Rifle: Savage Model 111, 24" Barrel 1:9.5" twist

Grains Shot 1 Shot 2 Shot 3 Shot 4 Average FPS
85 2924 2975 2942 N/A 2947.00
85.5 3034 3012 3036 N/A 3027.33
86 3055 3022 3090 N/A 3055.67
86.5 3060 3069 3047 N/A 3058.67
87 3138 3147 3138 3149 3143.00

Interestingly enough, 86.5 grains was the most accurate of the loadings I tried, with four shots all almost touching each other at 100 yards. 87 grains also was probably the least accurate loading of the group. Wondering if I should trudge on beyond 87 grains (88 Grains is the listed max with a velocity of 3211fps out of a 26" barrel)... Ideally I was hoping to reach 3100fps with a degree of accuracy but 3058 aint bad. Maybe I'll play around in the area between 86.5 and 87 to see where I end up and begin experimenting with bullet seating depth next.

I'm honestly surprised how hot those Factory loads were. 3293fps is the max velocity in Nosler's reloading guide with a 160 grain AccuBond and again they are stating a 26" barrel.... I was measuring 3265 out of my 24" barrel. That is very hot for factory ammo. Some markings on the cases from the bolt face (at least, I think thats what those markings are from). Usually I reload to improve on what is commercially available. I'm feeling kinda bummed that those factory rounds are delivering more energy down range than my 175 grain loadings! I tend to like heavy for caliber bullets so I'm resisting the temptation to walk away from the 175 grain partitions. This will eventually be my Elk/Moose/Caribou/"Out West and Up North"/"Anything bigger than a whitetail" load.

Anyway, thought someone might be interested in these results. Curious to get any opinions as well on where you'd suggest I go from here.

 

[truck driver]

Curious to know if you had to modify the rails so it would feed reliably.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Curious to know if you had to modify the rails so it would feed reliably.

A local smith did all the work for me, but the model 111 has a detachable magazine. He did shave down the front lip a bit so the fatter rounds didn't get hung up. Other than that, my 4+1 mag was reduced to a 2+1 but for this type of hunting, I don't see that as a hindrance.

 

[Charlie-NY]

My buddy bought a Nosler 48 in 28Nosler. He bought Nosler factory ammo with the 160gr AccuBond bullet. We shot the ammo over my Oehler 35P and noticed that it barely exceeded the 3,200 ft/sec that I get with the same bullet fired from my 25" 7WSM.

Not sure why the 28 Nos is not shooting a lot faster.

 

[truck driver]

Just wondering if you are seeing diminishing performance in the longer barrel 26" vs 24"?

 

[BF375]

My buddy bought a Nosler 48 in 28Nosler. He bought Nosler factory ammo with the 160gr AccuBond bullet. We shot the ammo over my Oehler 35P and noticed that it barely exceeded the 3,200 ft/sec that I get with the same bullet fired from my 25" 7WSM.

Not sure why the 28 Nos is not shooting a lot faster.

Probably because the 7mm WSM is loaded to higher pressures. Only logical explanation besides differences in barrels and throats which can easily make a smaller cartridge look as fast as a bigger one, too.

The 28 Nosler is a big case and the nice thing about it seems to be very high velocities without having to fire wall it, as is done with some factory ammo from the WSM's. Lots of case capacity and maybe Nosler has not seen fit to load it as hot as it could go.

The OP's velocities are really good with both the 160 AB and the 175 NPT. i would not worry about the "energy" differences between the 160 AB and the 175 NPT. They are just numbers and indicative of nothing really. The 175 NPT at over 3000 fps is in the same class as a 180 NPT from a 300 Weatherby as a killer,and suitable for about anything. I would not hesitate to hunt brown bear with that combination.

 

[Charlie-NY]

My buddy bought a Nosler 48 in 28Nosler. He bought Nosler factory ammo with the 160gr AccuBond bullet. We shot the ammo over my Oehler 35P and noticed that it barely exceeded the 3,200 ft/sec that I get with the same bullet fired from my 25" 7WSM.

Not sure why the 28 Nos is not shooting a lot faster.

Probably because the 7mm WSM is loaded to higher pressures. Only logical explanation besides differences in barrels and throats which can easily make a smaller cartridge look as fast as a bigger one, too.

The 28 Nosler is a big case and the nice thing about it seems to be very high velocities without having to fire wall it, as is done with some factory ammo from the WSM's. Lots of case capacity and maybe Nosler has not seen fit to load it as hot as it could go.

You are likely correct about higher/lower pressure between the rounds. However, I see no indication of high pressure on the 7WSM cases and reload them repeatedly.

With regard to the Nosler factory ammo fired from the Nosler Model 48 rifle; the velocity listed on the ammo box was not achieved according to my Oehler 35. That was rather surprising.

 

[BF375]

My buddy bought a Nosler 48 in 28Nosler. He bought Nosler factory ammo with the 160gr AccuBond bullet. We shot the ammo over my Oehler 35P and noticed that it barely exceeded the 3,200 ft/sec that I get with the same bullet fired from my 25" 7WSM.

Not sure why the 28 Nos is not shooting a lot faster.

Probably because the 7mm WSM is loaded to higher pressures. Only logical explanation besides differences in barrels and throats which can easily make a smaller cartridge look as fast as a bigger one, too.

The 28 Nosler is a big case and the nice thing about it seems to be very high velocities without having to fire wall it, as is done with some factory ammo from the WSM's. Lots of case capacity and maybe Nosler has not seen fit to load it as hot as it could go.

You are likely correct about higher/lower pressure between the rounds. However, I see no indication of high pressure on the 7WSM cases and reload them repeatedly.

With regard to the Nosler factory ammo fired from the Nosler Model 48 rifle; the velocity listed on the ammo box was not achieved according to my Oehler 35. That was rather surprising.

I never said the signs of high pressure would be excessive or visible; but it for example one round is generating 62,000 psi and the other 65,000 psi, you won't be able to tell y looking at the case but it doesn't mean the pressures aren't "higher".

I have had some 7mm WSM factory loads by Federal exceed 3250 with the 160 NPT.....from two different rifles,and the brass was ruined on the first firing. WSM's are loaded "hot"....that's how they get as much velocity as they do.

It is not unusual for cartridges to fail to achieve listed velocities because barrels and throats vary a great deal in dimensions, and materials so sometimes velocities are higher or lower than listed. I could cite a million examples but who has the time ? :shock:

 

[Charlie-NY]

It is not unusual for cartridges to fail to achieve listed velocities because barrels and throats vary a great deal in dimensions, and materials so sometimes velocities are higher or lower than listed. I could cite a million examples but who has the time ? :shock:

While that general statement is true, I take it for granted that Nosler knows the specific attributes of their own rifle and would expect their ammo to be more consistent with their advertised velocity.
Now if you used Nosler ammo in a rifle manufactured by anyone else then you point would be well taken.

Either way, my buddy was somewhat dismayed that his 28 Nosler was producing velocities safely obtainable in a 7 Rem mag or 7WSM. You don't buy a 300 Win mag and expect to get 30-06 velocities with Winchester factory ammo.

This is a single Nosler rifle and a single box of Nosler ammo. It may not be indicative of what others have experienced but it was worth noting.

 

[BF375]

It is not unusual for cartridges to fail to achieve listed velocities because barrels and throats vary a great deal in dimensions, and materials so sometimes velocities are higher or lower than listed. I could cite a million examples but who has the time ? :shock:

While that general statement is true, I take it for granted that Nosler knows the specific attributes of their own rifle and would expect their ammo to be more consistent with their advertised velocity.
Now if you used Nosler ammo in a rifle manufactured by anyone else then you point would be well taken.

Either way, my buddy was somewhat dismayed that his 28 Nosler was producing velocities safely obtainable in a 7 Rem mag or 7WSM. You don't buy a 300 Win mag and expect to get 30-06 velocities with Winchester factory ammo.

This is a single Nosler rifle and a single box of Nosler ammo. It may not be indicative of what others have experienced but it was worth noting.

Yeah.....I got tired of that myself plus the cost and lack general availability of one-source boutique brass.

So...these days I just make my own.... :wink:

 

[BF375]

Another thing to consider, though, is that Nosler has no control in what rifles its factory ammo will be used. Take the OPs conversion as an example. They may be able to control dimensions in their rifles but have no control over reamer/chamber throat dimensions and (just as important) barrel internal dimensions.

This can be a concern. While their rifles may e up to full factory loads, the same may not apply in some customs. They have to think in terms of liability.

I would think it would be easy for an experienced handloader to take a 28 Nosler right up to full spec and easily out run the smaller 7m magnums.

 

[SJB358]

We even see this with the Mashburns. I think 4 of us are running them now and 3 of them could shoot one anothers loads without an issue, the 4th is slow and shows High PSI signs with mild loads in the other 3 guns. I don't think there is a huge difference in the actual chamber, but maybe a tighter barrel or some other gremlin we can't see.

Now add thousands of rifles and its remarkable to me they all still stay in the same ball park..

 

[BF375]

Scotty you can factor in different lots of components but IME barrel and throat internal dimensions, style of rifling,even materials (SS vs CM) can all have an impact on actual velocity variations rifle to rifle.

Chamber not so much....

It is amazing so many stay within the ball park.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

I don't know if its too much trouble, but could someone generate something in Quick Load for me? I'm going to be trying three different seating depths (3.360, 3.380, and 3.400) each at three different powder charges (86.6gr, 86.gr, 87.0gr). All Using Reloder 33, All using 175 grain Nosler Partition. 28 Nosler. My maximum COAL if I'm seating right at the lands is 3.429".

I'm thinking if someone could show me the difference in pressure/velocity Quickload predicts for the three different seating depths at the max powder charge (87.0grains) I will be comfortable with the lower powder charges. I have already worked up to 87.0grains safely using the SAAMI OAL of 3.340. Just wondering is Quickload is going to tell me about pressure at these longer length rounds.

Thanks,

 

[SJB358]

I don't think it will. With your chamber being a bit different it could be a bit of guess work because of you being so close to the rifling. As long as you aren't right on the rifling I'd be fine with working into that charge.

Jammed on the rifling will show a PSI spike though.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

I don't think it will. With your chamber being a bit different it could be a bit of guess work because of you being so close to the rifling. As long as you aren't right on the rifling I'd be fine with working into that charge.

Jammed on the rifling will show a PSI spike though.

The maximum length I was planning on loading to is .029 off the lands, so still a bit of a jump which should give me enough margin to help with keeping pressure down. Plus, from what I am reading, Partitions tend to like a bit of a jump to the lands. My tests will be .029, .049, and .069 to the lands.