35 Whelen Quick Load request

[grry10]

Could someone run a quick load for a 35 Whelen with 225 gr SGK and RL17?

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    59.40   2451    3002   39994   8593     94.5    1.243
-09.0   98    60.06   2482    3077   41412   8700     95.0    1.222
-08.0   99    60.72   2512    3153   42889   8803     95.6    1.202
-07.0  100    61.38   2542    3229   44424   8902     96.1    1.183
-06.0  101    62.04   2573    3307   46021   8997     96.6    1.164
-05.0  103    62.70   2603    3386   47686   9087     97.0    1.145
-04.0  104    63.36   2634    3466   49419   9172     97.4    1.126  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  105    64.02   2664    3547   51226   9253     97.8    1.108  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  106    64.68   2695    3628   53108   9329     98.2    1.090  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  107    65.34   2725    3711   55074   9399     98.5    1.072  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    66.00   2756    3795   57125   9465     98.8    1.055  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    66.66   2787    3880   59267   9525     99.1    1.038  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    67.32   2817    3965   61496   9579     99.3    1.021  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    67.98   2848    4051   63843   9628     99.5    1.005  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    68.64   2878    4139   66290   9670     99.7    0.988  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    69.30   2909    4227   68852   9707     99.8    0.972  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    66.00   2900    4202   69386   9094    100.0    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    66.00   2553    3257   46445   9168     91.9    1.162

 

[truck driver]

CFE-223 is the cats meow in my 35 Whelen /AI you might want to give it a try also.

 

[TackDriver284]

I hope not to crash this thread, but I have a question if I may,,, I just noticed this on my QL today for the 35 Whelen which is the same as Mike's:

Useable Case Capacity: 63.217 grain H2O

I wondered if the QL chart is wrong on the case capacity or if its correct, and the close to max powder capacity is 66 grains. Or is this just a figure for using water?

Off the top of my head I remember some of you guys used RL-17 and I wonder what was your grain range on your loads.

 

[DrMike]

Usable case capacity is measured volume using water at STP. Maximum case capacity is the volume when filled with deoxygenated water to form a maximum convex meniscus. This is a more accurate indication of charge. Sixty-six grains of powder is 108% fill ratio. Remember, powder does not occupy all the volume as it compresses as it settles. Most stick powders can be filled to ~112 to 114% fill ratio due to compression. Ball powders are, as would be expected, less liable to compression. Hopefully that helps explain what you are observing.

 

[TackDriver284]

Usable case capacity is measured volume using water at STP. Maximum case capacity is the volume when filled with deoxygenated water to form a maximum convex meniscus. This is a more accurate indication of charge. Sixty-six grains of powder is 108% fill ratio. Remember, powder does not occupy all the volume as it compresses as it settles. Most stick powders can be filled to ~112 to 114% fill ratio due to compression. Ball powders are, as would be expected, less liable to compression. Hopefully that helps explain what you are observing.

Thanks Mike, that cleared up my confusion. I assumed that if over 100%, the powder would be at the top of the case when filling.

 

[SJB358]

Could someone run a quick load for a 35 Whelen with 225 gr SGK and RL17?

H4895 and RL15 are amazing in the Whelen with 225’s.

 

[RiverRider]

IMO, Re17 is too slow a burner for the Whelen. Varget or Re15 are much more suitable...i never tried anything else in mine, so I think CFE233 might be worth a try.

I have tried Re17 in other cartridges though. Sometimes it's the velocity champ, but top loads can get squirrelly when fired in higher summertime temps. I had a load in .30-06 that pushed a 180 Partition upwards of 2900 fps, but it was very finicky and unreliable for accuracy. That was my second and LAST flirtation with Re17. I'll never load it again.

 

[truck driver]

IMO, Re17 is too slow a burner for the Whelen. Varget or Re15 are much more suitable...i never tried anything else in mine, so I think CFE233 might be worth a try.

I have tried Re17 in other cartridges though. Sometimes it's the velocity champ, but top loads can get squirrelly when fired in higher summertime temps. I had a load in .30-06 that pushed a 180 Partition upwards of 2900 fps, but it was very finicky and unreliable for accuracy. That was my second and LAST flirtation with Re17. I'll never load it again.

Sorry for your problems with Re17 but I wouldn't give up on it if you have magnum calibers since it works great in 338 Win and has been very consistent for me.

For the 35 Whelen Varget, IMR 8208, 4064,4320, Re15 has worked well. CFE223 in my 35 Whelen/AI has been out standing giving good accuracy and high velocity. Never tried it in the standard 35 Whelen but it should give good case fill since it's a ball powder and I would use a hot primer when loading it since that has worked for me when experimenting with it.

 

[SJB358]

I think the reason folks see such problems out of the newer progressives such as 17, 26, 33, Retumbo, etc is they burn and ramp up much slower than a traditional single base and usually won't show PSI signs until you are well above actual safe pressures. It is easy to push them pretty hard and think we are getting away with something until ambient temperature or something else rears its ugly head. I know I am guilty of pushing them too far in the past and not seeing a problem until it showed up as much more than a traditional pressure sign.

I have a buddy that runs 17 in his Whelen with normal speeds with 225's and has a very full case, but achieves excellent accuracy. Just a matter if the gun likes it or not. 17 has been very good to me though. Accurate and very reliable over a decent range of temps.

 

[truck driver]

I think the reason folks see such problems out of the newer progressives such as 17, 26, 33, Retumbo, etc is they burn and ramp up much slower than a traditional single base and usually won't show PSI signs until you are well above actual safe pressures. It is easy to push them pretty hard and think we are getting away with something until ambient temperature or something else rears its ugly head. I know I am guilty of pushing them too far in the past and not seeing a problem until it showed up as much more than a traditional pressure sign.

I have a buddy that runs 17 in his Whelen with normal speeds with 225's and has a very full case, but achieves excellent accuracy. Just a matter if the gun likes it or not. 17 has been very good to me though. Accurate and very reliable over a decent range of temps.

Yep you can get caught up in chasing that last fps that you can get if your not careful and a lot of times it's the bullet make, style and jacket material that causes the problem with pressure.
I try to keep my loads sensible and load below max to stay safe in all weather conditions.
I tried 17 in my Whelens but just couldn't get it to work, I think the case capacity is too small for the powder.

 

[RiverRider]

Oops.

 

[RiverRider]

I'm using Re26 in a couple of cartridges and it has never given me any kind of grief. I do tend to go with the milder charge given two different accuracy nodes. Just found a good one for my 6mm Remington...a 95 Partition at about 3100. My .280 likes the 3000 fps charge with a 150 Partition.