7mm RM Loading/Velocity Flexibility

shooting_nut

Beginner
Jul 14, 2018
12
0
Does anyone here have experience running the 7mm Remington Magnum at moderate to medium load levels? Articles/examples/suggestions for how to wring the most speed possible out of the 7mm RM are everywhere, but I'm wondering how it performs when loaded to more sedate levels. For example...

* 160gr AccuBond, Partition, or 162 eld-x at ~2900 fps (24" barrel)
* 150gr AccuBond or Ballistic Tip at ~3000 fps (24" barrel)

Are there certain powders/burn rates that make this easier, burning efficiently in the relatively large 7mm RM case? And how is recoil when it's run at these more sedate levels? Lastly, is there the possibility of benefit to barrel life from running loads at lower pressure/velocity levels?

An obvious question would be: "Why not just buy a 280 Rem or 280 AI?". That's something I'm toying with also, but the prospect of readily available (and affordable) rifles chambered in 7 RM (like a Tikka T3x) along with a wealth of factory loads if I needed them makes me wonder if 7 RM is a better, more flexible overall choice.

I've run a 30-06 with 165gr bullets at ~2900 (give or take, depending on powder) and a 7mm-08 with 160gr Accubonds at ~2725 or a 140gr Accubonds/Ballistic Tips at ~2850 for the last 13+ years, and had great success with both against deer and elk at ranges from 75-400 yards. So I have all I need & more with my current pair of rifles. But...Some days, I wonder what it would be like to have the best of both worlds in one: A 7mm 160gr (with it's relative high BC and sectional density) with the muzzle velocity & recoil levels of my 30-06 165 loads. Just not sure if the 7mm RM is a good vehicle to provide what I'm looking for.
 

desertcj

Handloader
Sep 27, 2010
764
1
The speeds your talking about are only like 100-150fps below what you're going to get out of factory ammo. Some factory ammo is probably real close to the speeds your looking at.
 

NYDAN

Handloader
Sep 17, 2013
1,165
91
shooting_nut":1a1tie9z said:
Does anyone here have experience running the 7mm Remington Magnum at moderate to medium load levels? Articles/examples/suggestions for how to wring the most speed possible out of the 7mm RM are everywhere, but I'm wondering how it performs when loaded to more sedate levels. For example...

* 160gr AccuBond, Partition, or 162 eld-x at ~2900 fps (24" barrel)
* 150gr AccuBond or Ballistic Tip at ~3000 fps (24" barrel)

Are there certain powders/burn rates that make this easier, burning efficiently in the relatively large 7mm RM case? And how is recoil when it's run at these more sedate levels? Lastly, is there the possibility of benefit to barrel life from running loads at lower pressure/velocity levels?

An obvious question would be: "Why not just buy a 280 Rem or 280 AI?". That's something I'm toying with also, but the prospect of readily available (and affordable) rifles chambered in 7 RM (like a Tikka T3x) along with a wealth of factory loads if I needed them makes me wonder if 7 RM is a better, more flexible overall choice.

I've run a 30-06 with 165gr bullets at ~2900 (give or take, depending on powder) and a 7mm-08 with 160gr Accubonds at ~2725 or a 140gr Accubonds/Ballistic Tips at ~2850 for the last 13+ years, and had great success with both against deer and elk at ranges from 75-400 yards. So I have all I need & more with my current pair of rifles. But...Some days, I wonder what it would be like to have the best of both worlds in one: A 7mm 160gr (with it's relative high BC and sectional density) with the muzzle velocity & recoil levels of my 30-06 165 loads. Just not sure if the 7mm RM is a good vehicle to provide what I'm looking for.

Yes, I have just what you are asking about. See the target below. This is with a 26" barrel.

7mmRM-160AB.jpg

Here is the Quickload data for this load with my specific parameters used and the burning rate of my powder adjusted to match actual velocities.

7mmRM-160AB-QL.jpg

I think the recoil is modest for a full blown elk load. With my rifle, it feels less than my friends 30-06 firing 180 gr. bullets.

Reloder 23 works very well in this application as you can see from the ES and Std. Dev. for the velocities. The QL projection shows:

- 91% case fill
- 100% of propellant burnt
- Barrel time of 1.325 ms. The theoretical optimal barrel time for a 26" barrel is 1.3295 ms.
- Max pressure of less than 56,000 psi.

The on-line Alliant powder Reloader's Guide lists the maximum load of Reloder 23 with the 160 gr. Speer BTSP as 65.1 gr. So, I believe this to be a safe load in my rifle with my case capacity and seating depths.

I have found R-23 to be very temperature stable - never having seen velocity differences due to temperature differences.

I have come to believe that in general, it is easier to down load a larger cartridge case than it is to max load a smaller cartridge case. I never thought I would get a 7mmRM until I found one in a left-handed M70. Having used the cartridge, I now have developed a real fondness of it. This is definitely going to replace my 270 Win. I can shoot a heavier bullet in the 7mmRM at the same speeds I can shoot a lighter bullet at max loads with the 270 Win. That is the 7mmRM is launching the 160 AB at 2949 fps at only 56,000 psi whereas the 270 Win. launches a 150 gr. BT at 2900 fps at near max pressures - both using R-23. However, I will keep my 300 WSM (stainless with composite stock) for foul weather hunting.

I have reloading results with other bullets at modest velocities as well and would be happy to share them with you.

Dan
 

NYDAN

Handloader
Sep 17, 2013
1,165
91
Here is a target with the 150 gr. BT at 2980 fps.

7mmRM-150BT.jpg

These loads are with new, unfired brass in which the shoulder dimension was much less than my chamber. I full expect this load to tighten up with previously fire brass.

Here is a combined target of 160 AB's and 150 BT's at 200 yards. I think the 4th shot with the 150 BT was due to using unsorted, new, unfired brass.

7mmRM-160AB-150BT.jpg

Dan
 

NYDAN

Handloader
Sep 17, 2013
1,165
91
The December 2019 "Handloader" magazine lists over 450 loads for the 7mmRM. Some of these loads are in the range you are inquiring about.

Dan
 

SJB358

Ballistician
Dec 24, 2006
31,254
419
I’d probably look at 4350 like burn speeds in order get those speeds. My Old Goat partner uses a bunch of 4350 for 160’s. I’d bet it’s barely less than a 100 FPS less than full horse loads and I’d think accuracy would be excellent as well.

2900 with a 160-168 bullet with great BC isn’t exactly loafing.
 

Guy Miner

Master Loader
Apr 6, 2006
16,462
716
SJB358":218x1g4c said:
I’d probably look at 4350 like burn speeds in order get those speeds. My Old Goat partner uses a bunch of 4350 for 160’s. I’d bet it’s barely less than a 100 FPS less than full horse loads and I’d think accuracy would be excellent as well.

2900 with a 160-168 bullet with great BC isn’t exactly loafing.

Agree with both the 4350 recommendation, and with the notion that 2900 fps with a 160 is fairly normal with the 7mm Rem Mag. It can be loaded up in the 3000 - 3100 fps range, but an awful lot of loads "only" muster velocities of about 2900 fps.

Regards, Guy
 

wingnut

Beginner
Jan 17, 2007
182
4
After replacing the barrel for the third time, I too am shooting milder loads through my Ruger #1 (26 in bbl) in 7mm Rem mag. I’ve found H1000 and Ramshot Magnum to give a very good fill % and kept forecasted pressures near 55K psi with the 160g NAB. Here is some QL for you to think about (subtract 40-50 fps for your shorter barrel):

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 72.296 grain H2O = 4.694 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

Code:
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C               93.0     66.7     4.32    3043   100.0    55000   11867   1.315 
Norma MRP 2 *C                     103.8     69.2     4.48    3031    99.3    55000   12425   1.311  
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              101.6     67.3     4.36    3029   100.0    55000   11565   1.296 
Norma MRP *C                        93.9     65.3     4.23    3023   100.0    55000   12011   1.309  
Vihtavuori N560 *C                  95.5     65.1     4.22    3021    98.6    55000   12354   1.302  
Accurate MAGPRO                     96.0     68.0     4.41    3014    97.5    55000   12468   1.310  
IMR 7828                           100.0     64.7     4.20    3013    98.9    55000   11992   1.290  
IMR 7828 SSC                        94.6     64.7     4.20    3013    98.9    55000   11992   1.290  
Vihtavuori N565 *C                 100.2     68.6     4.45    3002    98.7    55000   12253   1.324  
Hodgdon H1000 *T                   104.8     69.1     4.48    2998    99.1    55000   11763   1.285  
Alliant Reloder-22 *C               95.8     64.5     4.18    2996    99.6    55000   11858   1.308  
Winchester WXR                      98.3     64.8     4.20    2995    99.5    55000   11874   1.309  
Ramshot Magnum                      96.3     69.9     4.53    2986    99.9    55000   11417   1.302 
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T            98.0     63.9     4.14    2959   100.0    55000   10665   1.318  
Hodgdon Retumbo                    105.0     70.4     4.56    2959   100.0    48892   12134   1.360
Alliant Reloder-19 *C               92.7     61.8     4.00    2954    99.5    55000   11283   1.304  
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                 94.2     63.5     4.11    2934    98.3    55000   11203   1.301 
Hodgdon H4831 *T                    98.0     63.5     4.11    2934    98.3    55000   11203   1.301  
Winchester Supreme 780              91.9     64.6     4.19    2912    99.4    55000   10784   1.311  
Vihtavuori N165 *C                  98.1     64.6     4.19    2905    99.7    55000   10568   1.316  
Accurate 3100                       96.0     64.0     4.15    2903   100.0    55000   10466   1.345  
IMR 4831                            92.2     58.9     3.81    2902   100.0    55000   10157   1.329  
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T               95.2     61.7     4.00    2899    98.4    55000   10824   1.303  
Hodgdon H4350 *T                    90.3     58.9     3.81    2893    99.8    55000   10374   1.308  
Vihtavuori N160 *C                  98.0     62.6     4.06    2890    98.7    55000   10586   1.308  
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 90.3     58.2     3.77    2877   100.0    55000    9587   1.320  
Vihtavuori N170 *C                 105.0     69.2     4.49    2846    93.0    50742   11307   1.374
 

Darkhorse

Handloader
Mar 14, 2014
740
6
My 7mm was my regular rifle for at least a decade hunting the thick swamps of Central Georgia. Full house loads ruined a lot of meat and were not needed at such close range. So I loaded 154 grain Hornady spire points to the lowest listed loads.
I used IMR 4350 and the loads worked perfect. A lot less bloodshot meat and good accuracy and killing power.
I would load so again if I didn't have smaller rifles.
 

pharmseller

Handloader
Feb 13, 2012
502
5
My primary hunting rifles are all Tikkas (T3 Lite stainless or Superlite, no T3x). 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm-08. The Mag shoots a 162 eldx at just under 3k, the Mighty -08 shoots a 150 eldx at 2790.

If I want sedate I’ll shoot the Mighty -08. It’s sedate enough to kill a 5x6 bull at over 400 yards.



P
 

shooting_nut

Beginner
Jul 14, 2018
12
0
NYDAN":eu0ordpo said:
Yes, I have just what you are asking about. See the target below. This is with a 26" barrel.

View attachment 1

Here is the Quickload data for this load with my specific parameters used and the burning rate of my powder adjusted to match actual velocities.



I think the recoil is modest for a full blown elk load. With my rifle, it feels less than my friends 30-06 firing 180 gr. bullets.

Reloder 23 works very well in this application as you can see from the ES and Std. Dev. for the velocities. The QL projection shows:

- 91% case fill
- 100% of propellant burnt
- Barrel time of 1.325 ms. The theoretical optimal barrel time for a 26" barrel is 1.3295 ms.
- Max pressure of less than 56,000 psi.

The on-line Alliant powder Reloader's Guide lists the maximum load of Reloder 23 with the 160 gr. Speer BTSP as 65.1 gr. So, I believe this to be a safe load in my rifle with my case capacity and seating depths.

I have found R-23 to be very temperature stable - never having seen velocity differences due to temperature differences.

I have come to believe that in general, it is easier to down load a larger cartridge case than it is to max load a smaller cartridge case. I never thought I would get a 7mmRM until I found one in a left-handed M70. Having used the cartridge, I now have developed a real fondness of it. This is definitely going to replace my 270 Win. I can shoot a heavier bullet in the 7mmRM at the same speeds I can shoot a lighter bullet at max loads with the 270 Win. That is the 7mmRM is launching the 160 AB at 2949 fps at only 56,000 psi whereas the 270 Win. launches a 150 gr. BT at 2900 fps at near max pressures - both using R-23. However, I will keep my 300 WSM (stainless with composite stock) for foul weather hunting.

I have reloading results with other bullets at modest velocities as well and would be happy to share them with you.

Dan

That's great information; thank you! Looking at load densities from Nosler's data, I wasn't sure if it was feasible to get somewhat reduced loads while getting decent load densities. Looks like QL + the wealth of currently available powders have come to the rescue.

I'd love to see some of your other results, if you don't mind & have the time.
 

shooting_nut

Beginner
Jul 14, 2018
12
0
NYDAN":2e7nbwti said:
The December 2019 "Handloader" magazine lists over 450 loads for the 7mmRM. Some of these loads are in the range you are inquiring about.

Dan

Good to know. I'll look that up.
 

shooting_nut

Beginner
Jul 14, 2018
12
0
pharmseller":1r0qxdfw said:
My primary hunting rifles are all Tikkas (T3 Lite stainless or Superlite, no T3x). 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm-08. The Mag shoots a 162 eldx at just under 3k, the Mighty -08 shoots a 150 eldx at 2790.

If I want sedate I’ll shoot the Mighty -08. It’s sedate enough to kill a 5x6 bull at over 400 yards.

P

Oh, yes. I have no doubt the 7mm-08 will do well, as it already has for me many times on deer and elk (along with my 30-06). But a 160gr at 2900 (with a relatively high-BC 7mm bullet) seems like a near perfect combination of my current two cartridges. But, if I'm being perfectly honest with myself...sometimes it's also just fun to experiment & play with new things. :wink:
 

NYDAN

Handloader
Sep 17, 2013
1,165
91
shooting_nut":li4l3l8o said:
I'd love to see some of your other results, if you don't mind & have the time.

I loaded the 150 BT, 160 AB that are shown above and the 168 ABLR shown below.

7mmRM-168ABLR-Re23.jpg

With my rifle, brass, seating depths, etc. the averages velocities I measured were:

63.0 gr. Reloder 23 = 2837 fps
64.0 gr. Reloder 23 = 2928 fps
65.0 gr. Reloder 23 = 2962 fps

Naturally you would have to start low and work up with your own rifle, brass, and powder lots.

Dan
 

wingnut

Beginner
Jan 17, 2007
182
4
OP- Although I prefer the 160g NAB, here is QL data for the 162g ELD-X in a 24 in bbl for you too:

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.(SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 162, Hornady ELD-X 2840
Useable Case Capaci: 71.420 grain H2O = 4.637 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 55000 psi, or 379 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

Code:
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C               93.2     65.9     4.27    2964   100.0    55000   12940   1.266  
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              101.7     66.6     4.31    2951   100.0    55000   12609   1.248  
Norma MRP 2 *C                     104.0     68.5     4.44    2950    98.9    55000   13488   1.262  
Norma MRP *C                        94.0     64.6     4.18    2943    99.9    55000   13071   1.260  
Vihtavuori N560 *C                  95.7     64.3     4.17    2939    98.1    55000   13380   1.253  
IMR 7828                           100.1     64.0     4.15    2933    98.5    55000   13007   1.241  
IMR 7828 SSC                        94.7     64.0     4.15    2933    98.5    55000   13007   1.241  
Accurate MAGPRO                     96.1     67.3     4.36    2932    96.9    55000   13489   1.261  
Vihtavuori N565 *C                 100.4     67.9     4.40    2921    98.3    55000   13283   1.275  
Hodgdon H1000 *T                   105.0     68.4     4.43    2919    98.7    55000   12769   1.236 
Alliant Reloder-22 *C               95.9     63.8     4.14    2917    99.3    55000   12872   1.259  
Winchester WXR                      98.5     64.1     4.16    2915    99.2    55000   12885   1.259  
Ramshot Magnum                      96.4     69.1     4.48    2908    99.7    55000   12432   1.252  
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T            98.1     63.2     4.09    2884   100.0    55000   11618   1.268  
Alliant Reloder-19 *C               92.8     61.1     3.96    2876    99.2    55000   12238   1.254  
Hodgdon Retumbo                    105.0     69.5     4.50    2874    99.8    48668   13200   1.313
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                 94.3     62.8     4.07    2857    97.8    55000   12126   1.251  
Hodgdon H4831 *T                    98.1     62.8     4.07    2857    97.8    55000   12126   1.251  
Winchester Supreme 780              92.0     63.9     4.14    2836    99.1    55000   11700   1.260  
Vihtavuori N165 *C                  98.2     63.9     4.14    2830    99.5    55000   11489   1.265  
Accurate 3100                       96.1     63.3     4.10    2828   100.0    55000   11412   1.294  
IMR 4831                            92.3     58.2     3.77    2828   100.0    55000   11063   1.279  
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T               95.3     61.0     3.95    2823    97.9    55000   11708   1.253  
Hodgdon H4350 *T                    90.4     58.2     3.77    2818    99.6    55000   11268   1.257  
Vihtavuori N160 *C                  98.2     62.0     4.01    2815    98.3    55000   11473   1.258  
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 90.4     57.6     3.73    2806   100.0    55000   10446   1.269  
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T              100.0     65.1     4.22    2768    91.2    55000   11344   1.255  
Vihtavuori N170 *C                 105.0     68.4     4.43    2764    92.1    50531   12164   1.325
 

thatguySHM

Beginner
Feb 11, 2017
249
1
I'd take a good look at H4831, not the SC version. I use it on my 7mm Rem Mag and 150gr Sciroccos. It fills the case very well and dodges big temp changes just as well. I'm pushing them at 3100 fps with a 26" tube, I'm sure you could back it off a hair and hit your target goal easily. I'd start with just a few rounds loaded about half a grain apart, in the 62-64gr window, find your velocity then fine tune to SD and accuracy with primers and seating depth. Shouldn't take that many rounds to find what you're after.
 

Barkbuster20

Beginner
Apr 5, 2019
8
0
Not exactly what you were inquiring about but close maybe. I loaded up 175 gr corelokts in my Ruger m77 mkii 7mm rm 24 inch barrel with 62.5 grains of rl22. Grouping was good so I loaded up 40 rounds. After running them through my chronograph I discovered they were going 2750. That is a nosler max load. I worked up to 64.5 grains and ended up at 2850, no pressure signs, but I didn't load up any at that charge, it was just done out of curiosity. I think maybe starting at minimum book loads will give you what your looking for. You may even be above minimum with normal powders. Just use a chrony.

A little blacktail buck at 40 yards thought a 175 grain corelokt at 2750 was a freight train.
 
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