85gr .277 E-Tip load info

[Guest]

Well, guys, I should have some pictures pretty soon of my newest addition to the safe. I found a deal on a brand new left hand Browning A-Bolt Micro Hunter in 270WSM, so I picked it up for my son. It's a "distributor demo" according to the shop I bought it from (and I trust them), but it's flawless. I got it for several hundred less than the price of a new A-Bolt, so it was a steal. The rifle has a pretty nice stick of wood on it, and it's nicely sized for my son. I think he's going to like having a left hand bolt gun to shoot, too, as he's been stuck with a right hand 22lr up to this point. It will wear a 3-9x40 Bushnell Elite 3200 I got from Midway on clearance for $139, so overall, the whole thing is a deal. Midway even had brass on sale for $40 per hundred, so I'm pretty stoked.

Well, obviously I'm looking at load data for reduced loads, and Hodgdon offers some guidance on 100-110gr bullets. But then I see this 85gr E-Tip, and I think that might be a great ticket for white-tails at 100-150yds for the boy while he's learning (though not cheap to shoot at the range!). So, I guess this question sort of goes out to the folks at Nosler and perhaps to one of you guys with quickload:

What's the operational velocity for the 85gr E-Tip? Will it work at 2500-2800fps muzzle velocity?

And can anyone offer any guidance on load specs for this bullet in a 270WSM? I'm hoping one of the 4895's might be suitable, as I'm pretty comfortable reducing those to about 80% of the max charge with a jacketed bullet.

Or maybe I'd be better off with either the 100 or 110gr AccuBond using Hodgdon's published youth load info?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[DrMike]

dubyam,

Sounds like a sweet buy. How old is your son? For reduced loads, I'd suggest sending an E-Mail to Ty Herring at Barnes or correspond with Hodgdon's techs to see if they have done any work with this particular rifle. QuickLOAD projects that from a 23 inch barrel, a charge of 70 grains of RL17 will send the bullet out of the barrel at 3853 fps. That is screaming, to be certain.
Using H4895, QuickLOAD projects the following data:

Cartridge : .270 WSM
Bullet : .277, 85, Barnes 'TSX' 27732
Useable Case Capaci: 77.638 grain H2O = 5.041 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 71 50.80 3119 1836 35572 10419 94.4 1.187
-18.0 73 52.07 3188 1919 37758 10695 95.4 1.162
-16.0 75 53.34 3258 2003 40064 10959 96.2 1.137
-14.0 76 54.61 3326 2088 42496 11209 97.0 1.112
-12.0 78 55.88 3395 2175 45058 11445 97.7 1.086
-10.0 80 57.15 3462 2262 47759 11666 98.4 1.057
-08.0 82 58.42 3529 2351 50605 11870 98.9 1.028
-06.0 83 59.69 3596 2440 53604 12057 99.3 1.001
-04.0 85 60.96 3661 2530 56764 12225 99.6 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 87 62.23 3726 2621 60095 12375 99.8 0.949 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 89 63.50 3790 2712 63605 12505 100.0 0.924 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 90 64.77 3854 2803 67307 12616 100.0 0.900 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 92 66.04 3916 2894 71210 12718 100.0 0.878 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 94 67.31 3978 2986 75328 12818 100.0 0.856 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 96 68.58 4038 3078 79675 12914 100.0 0.835 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 98 69.85 4099 3170 84264 13008 100.0 0.814 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 89 63.50 3920 2900 73546 12134 100.0 0.863 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 89 63.50 3603 2450 53568 12544 97.3 1.004

At 80 percent of max, you are still generating 3119 fps, which is certainly adequate to open the bullet. I would be a little uncomfortable at the possibility of SEE at that charge. This is something that the techs at Hodgdon may be able to guide you on.

The data with a 110 grain AB is as follows:

Cartridge : .270 WSM
Bullet : .277, 110, Nosler AccuBond 54382
Useable Case Capaci: 74.569 grain H2O = 4.842 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 68 46.80 2817 1938 35583 10373 97.2 1.334
-18.0 70 47.97 2878 2023 37727 10621 97.9 1.301
-16.0 71 49.14 2938 2108 39978 10855 98.5 1.265
-14.0 73 50.31 2997 2195 42342 11074 99.0 1.230
-12.0 75 51.48 3056 2282 44824 11278 99.4 1.197
-10.0 77 52.65 3115 2369 47428 11466 99.7 1.165
-08.0 78 53.82 3172 2458 50161 11637 99.9 1.134
-06.0 80 54.99 3229 2547 53029 11791 100.0 1.105
-04.0 82 56.16 3285 2636 56039 11927 100.0 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 83 57.33 3340 2725 59197 12058 100.0 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 85 58.50 3395 2815 62512 12187 100.0 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 87 59.67 3449 2905 65992 12313 100.0 0.998 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 89 60.84 3502 2995 69646 12436 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 90 62.01 3554 3086 73484 12557 100.0 0.951 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 92 63.18 3606 3177 77516 12676 100.0 0.928 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 94 64.35 3658 3268 81754 12791 100.0 0.907 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 85 58.50 3494 2982 72014 11857 100.0 0.959 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 85 58.50 3247 2575 52815 12480 99.0 1.108

Velocity wise, even with an 80% reduction in charge weight, you are still generating adequate velocity to open the bullet beyond 300 yards. Again, the primary concern would be that there are perhaps better (safer) powders to use. One of the techs who works with these reduced loads on a regular basis would be in a better position to advise you.

 

[buckfever]

Might go with 110 gr AccuBond should open up better at those velocities.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the info, Dr. Mike. I am working off of the assumptions Hodgdon published regarding youth loads and using H4895 for reduced recoil. If you've not seen them, you can get the PDF here:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

According to Hodgdon, H4895 is stable in it's ignition properties down well below the 90% level. I'm not thinking I'd try to get down to a 60% charge with jacketed bullets, but I suspect I could get 243Win recoil and 100-150yds of range for this 270WSM without much trouble, since they list a load that does that.

My son is 10yrs old, and he's a big kid, so I'm comfortable with him shooting these kinds of loads. It should be fun at the range this spring!

 

[DrMike]

Thanks, dubyam; I had not seen these data before. I know that Hodgdon is the leader is youth loads. This is good stuff.

The data generated with QuickLOAd at an 80% load are certainly above the pressure range they project with the bullets listed. This data would relieve some of the concern I registered. That leaves only the difference in bearing surface, though the maximum pressure should not be a serious concern even with an elongated bearing surface. It looks good, in any case.

As long as impact velocity is above 1800 fps, I would think that any of the bullets you suggest would open sufficiently to take game. That means that you should be good to go out to 300 + yards.

 

[Guest]

The more I think about it, the less I want to worry over the 85gr stuff, but I am going to work with the 100-110gr bullets for sure. I think I'll likely try some varmint bullets in those weights for practice (Hornady and perhaps Speer make some) and then move to Accubonds for deer season after he's had some time to practice.

The nice part about those youth loads from Hodgdon is that we can work up from those to the listed charges for the 110gr bullet as he gets more tolerance for recoil, and move to heavier bullets without much fanfare. Sort of "wading into the water" in terms of recoil. I'm really looking forward to it. He has no idea I got this rifle, yet. It should be a great time when I give it to him later this spring.

 

[DrMike]

I'm certain any lad would be pleased to receive such an evidence of his responsibility from Dad.

 

[SJB358]

Man, that is an awesome rifle for your boy. I wished I would have gotten my son a 7WSM or something along those lines instead of a 243, since he will need more rifle to hunt up at Mikes!!

I would think the 110gr AB's at lower loads would be excellent in the 270WSM. The only hiccup I see in this is case sealing. The WSM's are REALLY thick in their brass and sometimes don't seal properly until they get into the higher pressure range. I imagine H4895 would be excellent. Plus, I can't see any deer not falling to the 110gr AB at 2800-3000. That is faster than the 6.8SPC and everybody says it is a good deer round. Either way, congrats on the 270WSM. It is a tie for my favorite round (35 Whelen)... Can't wait to hear about your range work. Scotty