Ackley improved?

wisconsinteacher

wisconsinteacher

Handloader
Dec 2, 2010
1,980
291
What cal, gains the most by being improved? Is it worth looking at the improved options if a guy was planning on building a rifle or would you be better off with the standard round?

Not that I am looking right now, just trying to learn more about different improved rounds.
 
WT- From PO Ackleys own manual....if I remember what I read correctly the 250-3000 Savage showed the greatest percentage of improvement, based on his work. That was many years ago, and things have changed, other calibers have been tried. (Although I cant imagine what.... :) He Ackley'd a .25 Krag based on the 30-40 Krag!!) The 250-3000 Ackley is a heck of a round though. Others will be along with their favorites soon.... :) That said, I am a big fan of the 250 but if I needed more punch I would go with a standard Calibre. I have a 243 I never shoot.- what fun is that??? :) I dont have the space or opportunity to reload that much. Easier to go to a 308 or something and know I can get ammo. IF space, time and opportunity were not an issue, that 243 would have a 250 Ackley screwed on it already. Just for the fun of it. :) CL
 
It's interesting that back in the day that was a way to improve on the performance of a round with a lot of body taper. But today we have a lot of other calibers to choose from and I think unless you pick the 280 AI which you can by brass for it I don't think it's worth the effort, IMO.

Pick something that brass is available anywhere or always in stock, noting worse then searching for brass or years from finding it.... think the Remington 8mm magnum, or the RUM are hard to come by from what I here?
 
I think the 250-3000 was the top of the list as well. Maybe a 257 Bob also, but I can't remember.

The 280ai is the only one attractive to me, for the reason stated. I can buy pre-formed Nosler brass. Even 280 Rem brass can be found for fire forming fairly easily. A 260ai would be pretty sweet as well, but you'd have to fire form.

But yeah… I think the WSM families have all the advantages in performance. Even todays powder selections can vastly improve the performance of the classic cartridges out there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all set to build a 280ai. There are other advantages do doing that, but you're not going to gain appreciable performance. Other then being cool of course! :mrgreen:
 
The most efficient AI round is the 257 Roberts AI and the 280 AI is second.
The advantage of the AI is that you can fire factory parent cartridges in the AI.
You can breath new life and improved performance into an existing rifle with a simple rechambering.
Yes, there are newer cartridges available but they lack the cool factor.

JD338
 
The 22-250 does really well improved. Any derivative of the 7x57 case - 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts etc. In general any case with significant body taper will see notable improvement. Modern powders up the performance even more. The main benefit from my point of view is the reduced trimming.

Scott
 
I think the Ackely Improved are miss understood with everyone expecting extreme gains in velocity. What he did was design a more efficient cartridge based off the original design and the velocity gains were just one of the benefits.
 
I have seen that, he has a 260 30 degree Improved as well. The AI version would have the 40 degree shoulder with the ability to fireform using standard 260 loads
 
I think the 260 AI would be the cats meow. 6.5-284 performance in a true short action.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And it is that. Mine is running 140s right at 2880-2900 without any issues at all. Accurate also. Cool little cartridge.
 
Here you go. This was from a Precision Shooting article.
Code: 
ACKLEY IMPROVED CARTRIDGE COMPARISONS

	Factory Cartridge	Bullet Weight (grs.)	Factory Velocity (fps)	Ackley Velocity (fps)	% Increase
1	25-35 WCF	117	2230	2800	25.6
2	30-40 Krag	180	2430	2900	19.3
3	250 Savage	100	2820	3300	17.0
4	6.5x55 Swedish	140	2550	2900	13.7
5	30-30 WCF	150	2390	2700	12.9
6	7x57mm Mauser	145	2660	3000	12.8
7	300 H&H	180	2880	3200	11.1
8	257 Roberts	117	2650	2900	9.4
9	270 Win.	150	2850	3100	8.8
10	25-06 Rem.	100	3230	3500	8.4
11	375 H&H	300	2530	2740	8.3
12	243 Win.	100	2960	3200	8.1
13	270 Win.	130	3060	3300	7.8
14	280 Rem.	140	3000	3230	7.7
15	30-06 Springfield	180	2700	2900	7.4
16	30-06 Springfield	150	2910	3100	6.5
17	219 Zipper	55	3300	3500	6.0
18	6mm Rem.	75	3400	3600	5.9
19	220 Swift	50	3870	4100	5.9
20	7mm-08 Rem.	140	2860	3030	5.9
21	375 H&H	270	2690	2830	5.2
22	22-250 Rem.	55	3680	3850	4.6
 
I've gone both routes with several, factory chamberings to new barrels and it's been a toss up for me. I've seen the biggest improvement in the .257 Roberts, the 30-30 ( reg AI and a 6mm/30-30 Imp.) the 22-250, the .280 AI and the 35 Whelen....but only if they had long enough actions to seat the bullets out and have long throats. I've never had much improvement with the 30-06 , unless I stayed with the 150s. I have had a couple wildcats on the 284 Win ( ala WSM) and both of them, including the 22-250 AI had feeding issues. The only one I have hung onto has been my Mod 700 Classic 35 WAI. I just like how the loaded round looks and have had zero feeding issues, plus, no case stretching to speak of. I think every serious handloader, at some time in his life, should have at least one Ackley Improved just to experiment with! :)
 
FWIW, from the chart I stuck up, I have serious issues w the number shown on the 250 AI. Don't get me wrong, it is a terrific improvement but 3300 w 100 gr pills? Nope. Not in mine anyhow. I run the 110 AB in mine at 2940. Excellent accuracy and enough to do what you need with it.
 
I'm sort of a fence rider on the Ackley Improved rounds. If loaded to equal pressures I don't see how you get the gains. The Ackleys hide PSI signs well on the 06 case so they are loaded to higher specs than the parent. I really think cases that have a bunch of taper like the 300 H&H, 257 Roberts, 7x57, 6.5 Swede and 250 Savage really see big gains when kept at the same PSI specs. The 06 case doesn't have much taper in it so the "gains" I see are lessened case stretch and a little extra oomph if you want it. I like all cartridges so I'd never say any aren't worth it, but ones like the 280 Rem and 270 Winchester already can work at 65K PSI and do 95% of what they could as an Ackley.

I do agree with JD, Jim and Dewey, they look darned cool.... :grin:
 
Dwh7271":1rj1dhuf said:
FWIW, from the chart I stuck up, I have serious issues w the number shown on the 250 AI. Don't get me wrong, it is a terrific improvement but 3300 w 100 gr pills? Nope. Not in mine anyhow. I run the 110 AB in mine at 2940. Excellent accuracy and enough to do what you need with it.
Click to expand...

+1 I aint stoking that load to find out..... Whew! :shock: 2940 from a 110 AB is a propper game stopper any day. :) CL
 
For me... its simple....

The Ackley Improved rounds are "just a little better"...

That fact that you won't really notice the difference in the field doesn't matter, to me.... simply because I know the numbers, I want the Ackley round.

It is sort of an OCD thing I guess...
 
I don't know if it's an OCD thing or not but I'm very impressed with my 35 Whelen Imp over the standard chambered rifle I have. I don't know if it's because J.E.S. did a fantastic job of re-boring the barrel and rifling it or if it is the AI cartridge but the dang thing will shoot and the stock is a factory take off I got off the 24hr campfire and nothing special done to it just bolted it on the barreled action. The best way I can describe it is like having your cake and eating it too. (y)
 
Barsness has written some good stuff about the AI cartridges - and he credits higher pressures from handloaders as one reason for the increased velocity. Dunno, I never owned one. I know there's a fellow on here who tells me his .257 AI is getting similar velocities to my .25-06, and I have no trouble believing that.

Would it be too much of a stretch to credit Ackley's designs with inspiring some of our more modern cartridges which feature large case capacity, straight walls, and sharp shoulders? Like the .300 WSM?



Guy
 
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