Barrel cleaning and settling down

[remingtonman_25_06]

So I did a thing last week out of pure boredom due to this BS virus and being locked in my house, so I scrubbed and cleaned all my rifles with foam cleaner and a nylon brush. Squeaky clean...So I went out to the range yesterday and proceeded to shoot said rifles, 240 why, 280 rem, 7-300 mag. Now these rifles all shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. Well needless to say, they're now shooting about 1.5-3 MOA...I shot around 15 shots out of each and the only ones that started to settle down were the 280 and the 7-300. They're down around 1 MOA. The 240 WBY is still around 2 MOA. Not very happy and I won't be cleaning my barrels anytime soon again until I visibly start to see the groups go to crap. Lesson learned...who knows how long they're going to take to settle back in. Thought it would only take a few rounds honestly. I've never seen these rifles shoot so bad with proven loads in my life. Not a happy camper...

 

[ShadeTree]

Something else is going on. 1-2 shots to slick any rough spots in the bore back in with copper, and you're good to go. That's the case with every rifle on the place and 1 or 2 of them aren't the nicest of bores as far as being rough.

You got both the bores and the chambers clean and dry?? Did let them in the stock or take them all out of the stocks to clean them?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I took the 7-300 out of the stock, and also put a new scope on it, a MK4 8-25x...The other 2 I didn't take out of the stock or switch scopes around. After I scrubbed with a nylon brush and foam cleaner, I put 5 dry patches through them to make sure no crud was left behind. Patches all came out white. Then I proceeded to run 1 patch through them with Rem oil, and that was it. I dried the chamber with tips and patches best I could. The 7-300 has a Bartlein barrel, the 280 is a KS 700 factory barrel, and the 240 WBY is a vanguard with the factory barrel as well. They're all shooting like garbage and I put like 15 rounds through each of them. I too figured they would settle down after 2-3 shots, at most 5...However much to my surprise, they did not and still didn't after 15 rounds. I got so mad, I packed up and went home. Waste of bullets and time.

 

[ShadeTree]

I can see if your putting the guns away for storage, but why the Rem oil after cleaning? I never used it, but unless you were having a bad day of shooting, the rem oil is the problem would be my guess.

1 of 2 possibilities, either increased pressure from the residue left behind, or maybe the more likely, decreased pressure from the slickness of the Teflon while simultaneously not shaving off the needed tiny amounts of copper to fill in the voids.

Something changed on all guns. If it were me I'd run 2 patches or so with solvent on them to clean that Rem oil out, run dry patches until dry, then just to be sure, a patch with rubbing alcohol, then a dry patch after that, and try it again.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Will do that. Thanks....So I just got done checking my 7-300 and I noticed my top ring screws were a bit loose and the 1/2" nuts were maybe 1/8 turn loose as well. Also my scope was perfectly leveled before I shot it, and now it is slightly canted, per the wheeler bubble levels...That's odd, I tightened all screws until they wouldn't tighten anymore...My action screws are still tight. The scope appeared to have slid back at least a 1/4" I know this because it left skid Mark's all down my brand new MK4 scope...Not very happy right now...I'm using a 20 MOA weaver rail with the 6 screw tactical rings. I never had an issue with the scope moving before I switched scopes. I'm going to take the 1/2" nuts off and see where the bar is in relation to the slots on the rail. I always slide the bar towards the muzzle, then tighten as that's what I have read to do anyway. Since the opposite reaction to the shoulder during firing, everything else moves forward. I'm kinds at a loss here. Now I'm gonna have to check my base, loosen the top ring screws, relevel the scope, and tighten everything back down. I have always followed up my barrel cleaning with a patch of Rem oil, since my rifles are in a safe 99% of the time. I will try what you recommended however and report back. My other 2 rifles are all tight, action screws and rings included. So my guess is maybe it's that Rem oil messing with them.

 

[ShadeTree]

Not saying that's it, but something common changed. I'd do 1 thing at a time. Clean 1 rifle with that method to try it. 1 that you didn't have out of the stock.

 

[358 WCF]

Unless they've changed the formula, RemOil has teflon in it. Good for door hinges & externals, but not so good for rifle bores. There was a new "thing" in the benchrest world in the late 80s for about a month or two. It was a teflon lube called Friction Block, & there were a number of experiments documenting its use as a bore lubricant in Precision Shooting magazine. This was right around the time moly-coating also became "a thing".

After treating the bore with the magical mystery liquid, there was a decrease in pressure with a fairly significant velocity increase possible by using greater powder charges. It was a short lived gain & not predictable as it started to wear off. I dont remember the accuracy results of the testing, but kind of half-way remember poor results & having to increase powder charges (over safe max) to maintain original (no teflon) group size. Teflon makes for some bad breathing when subjected to flame or high temps too, I believe. The lesson learned was not to use teflon in your barrel. Will try to find the relevant issue #s if I still have the magazines.

 

[RaySendero]

I can see if your putting the guns away for storage, but why the Rem oil after cleaning? I never used it, but unless you were having a bad day of shooting, the rem oil is the problem would be my guess. .....

Unless they've changed the formula, RemOil has teflon in it. .....
..... The lesson learned was not to use teflon in your barrel. ......

Wow guys, I've not heard that about Rem oil!

I've always used Rem oil in my rifle barrels and never had any seasoning accuracy issues.
Maybe 1 or 2 shots while sighting-in, maybe none al all.
I finish cleaning with a patch with a little Rem oil followed by a dry patch.
Then another dry patch before shooting it again.
My practice of using these dry patches comes from
seeing too many barrels bulged from oil left in barrel after cleaning.

So...I'm interested in this out come.

 

[ShadeTree]

I can see if your putting the guns away for storage, but why the Rem oil after cleaning? I never used it, but unless you were having a bad day of shooting, the rem oil is the problem would be my guess. .....

Unless they've changed the formula, RemOil has teflon in it. .....
..... The lesson learned was not to use teflon in your barrel. ......

Wow guys, I've not heard that about Rem oil!

I've always used Rem oil in my rifle barrels and never had any seasoning accuracy issues.
Maybe 1 or 2 shots while sighting-in, maybe none al all.
I finish cleaning with a patch with a little Rem oil followed by a dry patch.
Then another dry patch before shooting it again.
My practice of using these dry patches comes from
seeing too many barrels bulged from oil left in barrel after cleaning.

So...I'm interested in this out come.

Mine was just a guess, not from experience, but I knew Rem oil had Teflon in it. Perhaps the difference is you followed with a dry patch which wipes most of it out before it dries as a coating, not to mention a second patch before shooting. Sounds like the OP followed cleaning with a patch of Rem oil, then that was it.

 

[RaySendero]

Well...I'm still interested in outcome.
If there IS anything to it.
I can change.

 

[ShadeTree]

Well...I'm still interested in outcome.
If there IS anything to it.
I can change.

Agreed. Interested in the outcome also out of curiosity. My theory could be completely all wet. Just looking at the common theme as is in my nature.

Short of cleaning from the muzzle end like a sasquatch on a sugar high and buggering up every crown, or a shooter with entirely too much coffee in him, I'm not sure what could've happened simply by cleaning. Removing the Rem oil seemed like the logical thing to try in at least 1 rifle.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

So I took all the rem oil out and took the 240 out today and it's about back to normal 3/4 MOA for 3 shots and about 1 MOA for 5 shot groups. I think I still need to tweak the load a little as it's running a bit on the warm side, avg velocity was 3575fps with the 87g VMAX and 56g RL22. It usually averages around 3525 when it was shooting 1/2 MOA for 3 shots. But swabbing that rem oil out seemed to help quite a bit. I am in the middle of taking apart my base/rings on the 7-300 and loctite the base and nail polish on the rings. After it sets for 2 days I'll take it back out and report on it. My 280 brass is in the tumbler, then it will get resized and trimmed, then I'll load a few up with its preferred load and shoot it, then report back on that. I shot a 10 shot group out of my 223 that went 1 MOA with factory 55g Norma FMJ at 100 yards, avg velocity was 3175fps. Then I went 5 for 5 at the 500 yard gong with it. It's a good way to end the day at the range. Thanks for all the help guys. Report back in a few days on the 280 and the 7-300.

 

[ShadeTree]

Well it certainly appears you're getting there now. According to your original post the 240 was shooting 2 MOA the last session. Quite an improvement simply by removing the Rem oil.

I'll be interested to see if another rifle shows the same improvement, at that point you can be confidently be sure of what happened.

 

[preacher]

I hate Rem Oil...just a personal thing, Ha. I clean like that, then I literally "soak" the bore with EezOx. Allow it to dry overnight. Wipe out the excess and it only takes from 1-3 fouling shots to bring it in. I will run a Boresnake about every 10rds with some EezOx on it (dampened in front of the brush part) a couple times. I only like it in Bores, as it smells pretty "loud" when used to wipe down a rifle. I use Outers Tri-Lube for that. Good luck to you Pard!

 

[Darkhorse]

I've used RemOil in all my barrels, including my flintlocks, for 20 years or more with no problems or loss of accuracy. Before I hunt or even just shoot any of my guns I run dry patches through until I see no trace of the oil on the patch. I expect and get the same accuracy as the last time I shot the gun. Probably removing the (teflon) oil is a good habit to get.
Some rifles are funny about cleaning. The best group .188" I ever shot with my M700 7mag. was on shots 28,29 and 30. I have a couple of loads that will consistently shoot .500 and under coldbore and clean or fouled, the rifle doesn't care. My Browning Abolt II in .300 Win. Mag. must have a minimum of 5 shots on a clean bore before it settles down and shoots. My 165 grain load shoots under .500 and my 180 load shoots .600 and under but only with a fouled bore.
All the RemOil should be shot out of the bore after 3-5 shots. If you are shooting 15 or more shots and the rifle still hasn't settled down I would start looking for problems with the weapon. The first thing I'd check is to see if the barrel is free floated or if there is a tight spot or two between the barrel and stock. Check it by running a dollar bill or piece of paper between the two all the way to the barrel lug.