berger vs nosler

[nitis]

With my new 257 bee coming soon I need to pick a load. I want something much less explosive than the ballistic tip as I could get some close shots but and I am not really wanting the Partition for various reasons.

I considered the AccuBond and will give it a shot but I would like the extra 5 grs of weight as it seems the wbys like the 115s from what I have read.

what is teh gimmick about bergers? do they blow up being they area hollopoint? are they really tough like the old failsfaes that would not open?

I guess I just really wan to know more about the bullet as a whole in comparison to what I know about nosler

 

[DrMike]

Bergers are the "new thing" that have taken the shooting world by storm. I'm not as impressed as others. I still see them as a match bullet rather than a hunting bullet. I do have a few Bergers, but I'm not likely to load any for hunting.

They are cup and core, much like the BT. Hollow point has less impact on their expansion than you might imagine. I personally think the BT will work just fine for you. This opinion is worth roughly what you paid for it.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Berger has produced a few video's about their bullets. They make both a match bullet, and a match grade hunting bullet. The former is designed for matches, the later for hunting. Their hunting bullets blow up much like a BT does. The fact that the 110gr AB is a bonded bullet will (IMO) make a much bigger difference at impact the the extra 5grains you get with the 115gr BT. Either bullet would be great for deer/atenlope sized game. I'd give the Bergers a try. When they shoot, they shoot great, but not every rifle will like them.

 

[DrMike]

Sniper,

I believe you have more experience with Bergers than I do. My results are certainly mixed. Some rifles will shoot them quite well, and others seem totally incapable of stabilising them. Any insight on what makes the difference?

 

[JD338]

I have mixed feeling about the Berger bullets. They have a following and they do kill game but IMHO, they are a target bullet and not a game bullet. The fact that they more less disintegrate after they penetrate 2" into game is not what I would consider predictable controlled expansion on game.

JD338

 

[jmad_81]

+1 with JD. If it doesn't say AB, PT, ET, and in a few cases BT, I'm not using it for anything other than paper and yotes.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I've just started playing with the Bergers, but from what I can discern, they like a tight throat. In the past it was said they would only shoot if placed against the lans, but some shooter are actually winning matches with then seated off the lans. Each rifle seems to have it's own sweet spot. Berger recommends starting you load workup with large jumps in the seating depth. Because of the long ogive on the bergers, not it can be difficult to reach the lans, or even .04 off the lans in alot of rifles.

recommended depth:

.000 off lans
.04 off lans
.08 off lan
.12 off lan

Then make smaller adjustments at the depth that worked the best.


Although I have not confirmed this, I also suspect that Bergers might be very powder sensative....kind of like a Barnes. It will probably take a few more years of shooting and data before I can say for sure one way or the other.

 

[DrMike]

It is amazing the impact a television show has on the public. One show features long-range shooting and uses a lot of Berger bullets. There are some dramatic videos of elk and deer being taken at extreme ranges with these bullets. The impact is that the show has generated a great demand for the bullets. I certainly cannot speak for the broader public, but I am concerned that many (dare I say most) of those I have observed buying these bullets for use in this area are not taking the time to familiarise themselves with their gear or invest the time to learn to shoot well at longer ranges. I have witnessed too many at the range who are unable to get MOA at 100 yards speaking of 600 yard plus shots on elk and moose. I don't blame Berger, they are marketing a good product and promoting it as any good business should. I am simply concerned that too many individuals believe they are capable of shooting at distance simply because they saw it on television and they bought the brand promoted.

 

[bullet]

I have seen them take game with my friends shooting it in their rifles and I have also seen good hits not bring down game with them. I want controlled expansion when hunting and Berger does not insure that. If it makes someone mad because they like them I am sorry but I do not accept them for all around hunting. In fact I would use a Sierra Game King or Pro hunter before I would use a Berger.

 

[DrMike]

Sniper,

My sole work with Bergers to date is with the 270 WSM (they shot well, but no better than ABs), and with the 7mm RM (I could not get them to shoot better than 2 MOA, and ultimately sold the owner on ABs). In the latter case, I suspect that I could have made these shoot better, but the owner insisted on the use of extreme powders as he intended to hunt in Mexico. That experience might suggest that your initial suspicion that the bullet is powder sensitive may be accurate. Also, I was limited by magazine depth, and there was a lot of freebore on this particular rifle. In either instance, the rifle's owner is planning on using the rifle for long-range shooting.

 

[Big Squeeze]

With my new 257 bee coming soon I need to pick a load. I want something much less explosive than the ballistic tip as I could get some close shots but and I am not really wanting the Partition for various reasons.

I considered the AccuBond and will give it a shot but I would like the extra 5 grs of weight as it seems the wbys like the 115s from what I have read.

what is teh gimmick about bergers? do they blow up being they area hollopoint? are they really tough like the old failsfaes that would not open?

I guess I just really wan to know more about the bullet as a whole in comparison to what I know about nosler

.............Nitus..................Several months ago and after reading dozens of reviews and reports regarding the devasting and in some cases the DRT performance of the Berger (hunting) VLDs on deer, hogs, black bears, elk and even moose, I thought I`d give them a try.

Regardless of opinions, personal experience on game is the best teacher. Well! I certainly wasn`t disappointed with the VLD.

To date, I have killed 16 medium to large sized hogs ranging from 87 to 230 yards and not a one traveled more than 10 yards after the hit. All were one shot kills from my 300 WSM using the 168 gr (hunting) VLD.

For the first time, I will be using the 190 gr VLD for elk on my upcoming elk hunt later this month. My chosen personal range limits on elk are 500 yards. So if they can effectively kill a bull elk (DRT) on TV at 900+ yards using a Berger VLD from a 7mm mag, then a 190 from a 300 WSM within 500 yards should have the same or even a better affect.

There are no tekkie gimmicks with these bullets, just a different concept of killing game after impact. There are designed to perform differently than conventional bullets on game as the video on the Berger site clearly shows, with the capability of penetrating thick bone even at shorter ranges, and then as it penetrates, shock the vitals with devastating wound channels. The Berger is not just a long range hunting bullet or is it a less explosive bullet. It is designed to shock the vitals via the "shrapnel" effect. It is not a meat saving bullet. It is a DRT bullet with little tracking involved after the shot in most cases. I dislike tracking, especially when time is short, which is one reason I converted to the VLD, not to mention their great BCs.

Previously, it was noted by Berger to seat their bullets up to or into the lands for best accuracy. Berger did revised that, as it is not necessary to do so. For hunting loads (loads into the magazines), you simply start with the maximum COALs that your magazine will allow while enabling cycling of the bolt. Fire those and check for group sizings. Then back off another 10/1000ths with the same load and test fire for groupings. Repeat again. Your rifle will tell you where the best sweet spots are for bullet jump with any particular loading.

As always and as with "ANY" bullet, some rifles will accept the VLD with great accuracy results, while other rifles may not at all, while some may have so-so results. The key to the VLD is to do plenty of experimenting with different powders and seating depths.

My most accurate loadings are consistent moa and less, with the best accuracy coming from the VihtaVuori powder line in my rifle.

Berger will also e/mail to you reloading data as they did with me.

I have used alot of different bullets on hogs. None are as devastating or have the same DRT effects as the VLDs

Remember too, that the vitals in any game animal are located in the animal`s center, which is what needs to shocked and disrupted. Full penetration and exit from one side to the other isn`t necessary with the VLD. Some like full penetration and exit for a good blood trail for tracking. On the other hand, I prefer no blood trail with little to no tracking.

 

[bullet]

I think Nosler AccuBond and Ballistic tip or Sierra game King are better choices than Berger's for hunting. Although if you want to use them and like how they work, I think that is great.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Well, you believe all the hype if you want to about Berger VLD but I won't and I think I have killed some game in my life time. Just seeing results from friends of mine which most I admit killed as good as Seirra bullets were good but also just enough inconsistency for me. Also I do not have the time to wade through your diatribe of assumptions that have as many exceptions as they do results.

.............I would not consider my actual hunting experiences with the Bergers as "HYPE" or "DIATRIBE", but instead "ACTUAL" and truthful experiences.

Secondly!...Nobody asked you to wade through ANY diatribe of assumptions that have many exceptions. Who pulled your chain?

Thirdly!...Because my experiences or results with the Berger VLDs don`t correspond with what you or what your friends had, doesn`t mean they cannot do the job as I have given an account of and reported.

Fourth!...Everyone who has used the same bullets on the same game, can and do report different results with different consistencies!

Fifth!...If and when I have a problem with the Bergers, you`ll be the first to know.

Sixth!...Care to put some big money on the elk vs me and the 190 VLD???

Seventh!...Thank you "Bullet" for your "wonderful?" encouragement and very wise post!!!

 

[bullet]

Well, you believe all the hype if you want to about Berger VLD but I won't and I think I have killed some game in my life time. Just seeing results from friends of mine which most I admit killed as good as Seirra bullets were good but also just enough inconsistency for me. Also I do not have the time to wade through your diatribe of assumptions that have as many exceptions as they do results.

.............I would not consider my actual hunting experiences with the Bergers as "HYPE" or "DIATRIBE", but instead "ACTUAL" and truthful experiences.

Secondly!...Nobody asked you to wade through ANY diatribe of assumptions that have many exceptions. Who pulled your chain?

Thirdly!...Because my experiences or results with the Berger VLDs don`t correspond with what you or what your friends had, doesn`t mean they cannot do the job as I have given an account of and reported.

Fourth!...Everyone who has used the same bullets on the same game, can and do report different results with different consistencies!

Fifth!...If and when I have a problem with the Bergers, you`ll be the first to know.

Sixth!...Care to put some big money on the elk vs me and the 190 VLD???

Seventh!...Thank you "Bullet" for your "wonderful?" encouragement and very wise post!!!

Yes, you always inspire me or move me and I seem to show my best when responding to your posts. Can't figure that out but I will repent and encourage you to use them, my apologies. My comments were not productive.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Well, you believe all the hype if you want to about Berger VLD but I won't and I think I have killed some game in my life time. Just seeing results from friends of mine which most I admit killed as good as Seirra bullets were good but also just enough inconsistency for me. Also I do not have the time to wade through your diatribe of assumptions that have as many exceptions as they do results.

.............I would not consider my actual hunting experiences with the Bergers as "HYPE" or "DIATRIBE", but instead "ACTUAL" and truthful experiences.

Secondly!...Nobody asked you to wade through ANY diatribe of assumptions that have many exceptions. Who pulled your chain?

Thirdly!...Because my experiences or results with the Berger VLDs don`t correspond with what you or what your friends had, doesn`t mean they cannot do the job as I have given an account of and reported.

Fourth!...Everyone who has used the same bullets on the same game, can and do report different results with different consistencies!

Fifth!...If and when I have a problem with the Bergers, you`ll be the first to know.

Sixth!...Care to put some big money on the elk vs me and the 190 VLD???

Seventh!...Thank you "Bullet" for your "wonderful?" encouragement and very wise post!!!

Yes, you always inspire me or move me and I seem to show my best when responding to your posts. Can't quit figure that out but I will repent and encourage you to use them, my apologies.

.................Yeah!..... I always seem bring out the best in you when I post things that you happen to disagree with!

Your terms of "hype" and "diatribe of assumptions" contained in your initial reaction to my first post on this thread, seems to cop an attitude problem from you, especially when someone with experience using a different bullet than you "has" achieved great results which your friends didn`t have. Did you happen to wake up this morning and get out on the wrong side of your bed? Or maybe you fell out?

You use the Sierras and I`ll use the Bergers! If and/or when I have problems with them, I`ll swap to another bullet.

To you, all the reports, accounts and reviews (including mine) about the VLD s affects on game are either lies, hype and/or exaggeratons....OK then!.......................Prove it!!!!

No bets on the elk vs the 190 VLD??? Hmmmmmm???????????

NO?................ I didn`t think so!! Because you`d lose on that one!!!

 

[bullet]

All I can say is I am sorry, I did not control my opinion and it cost me. Hope you accept my apology and I will watch myself and practice self control. Thanks.

 

[Big Squeeze]

All I can say is I am sorry, I did not control my opinion and it cost me. Hope you accept my apology and I will watch myself and practice self control. Thanks.

.......................You`re forgiven, you crusty `ol beligerant fart you!!!!!! I still like ya anyway!... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[FOTIS]

I would use the 110 AccuBond or 115 Partition.
The Bergers work differently. They do not expand until they penetrate 1-2" then they expand like mad! They mostly get consumed by the tissue but not always. Once in a while they exit.

Just a different kind of performance than what I am use to so I stick to my noslers.

 

[bullet]

All I can say is I am sorry, I did not control my opinion and it cost me. Hope you accept my apology and I will watch myself and practice self control. Thanks.

.......................You`re forgiven, you crusty `ol beligerant fart you!!!!!! I still like ya anyway!... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks, you know from our few years of personal emails that I like you also. :grin:

 

[Greg Nolan]

They certainly look cool 8)