Case prep and weight sorting

[Jimbeaux82]

I have a couple questions for our esteemed board members:

1) do you feel there are benefits gained from de-burring the inside primer hole residue?

2) I normally just sort my cases by headstamp. I was preparing a bunch of 30/06 Rem cases for loading and decided to weigh them to see how the range fell. I had cases from 192.2 - 198.8 grs. So I sorted them out in 2 batches, 192.2-195.6 grs and 195.7-198.8 grs. For hunting rifles, how tight do you try to sort your cases by weight? Is the roughly 3 grain approach I took suitable? My rifle is a Win Mod 70 XTR Featherweight and it really is a shooter. With good ammo, I typically get 1/2" groups or less with 180 gr bullets, 3 shot groups.

Thanks,

Jimbeaux

 

[DrMike]

I ream the flash hole on new cases. I do not sort cases. I am primarily building ammunition for hunting. Most of my rifles give me sub-MOA accuracy without the extra effort of weight sorting. If I were doing primarily target shooting or long-range shooting, I would likely take greater precautions to ensure that all cases were weight sorted.

 

[Guest]

I'm in agreement with Mike on this as far as weight sorting goes. I've never found it to be necessary or useful for my style of hunting/shooting, which is primarily shorter range (500 and under) and frequently 300 or closer. I tried weight-sorting a number of years ago for a couple of rifles (using a 2gr range, if I remember correctly) and it just didn't make a difference out to the distances I shoot and hunt. So I just buy quality brass from the same lot and don't mix lots or headstamps, and figure I'm fine. If I were shooting out to 1000 or something, I'd probably get a lot more serious about the littlest details.

As for flash hole deburring, I've wondered if it's really a good investment of time. I've not done it, but I started inspecting new cases a few years ago with a fiber optic light, and for the life of me, in Rem/Win brass, I can't find much visible need to debur. In my Norma/Weatherby brass, the holes are drilled not punched, and I really don't see any issues there. So I've yet to buy a flash hole tool, but I'll be watching this thread to see if I need to spend the $20 on one.

 

[PJGunner]

"As for flash hole deburring, I've wondered if it's really a good investment of time."

I wonder about that as well. No need if using brass with drilled flash hole, but the punched through type can be eye opening. After I did my test with the .35 Whelen I spot checked several brands of brass for uniformity. Federal Gold medal .308 match brass had some of the most difficult flash hole to ream out and Winchester and Remington could be easy of very hard to get the burr gone. It varied from case to case.
There was this old guy I used to shoot with befoe he passed away who not only eamed the burrs from the flash hole but ream the flash hole from the primer pocket side. He said the the ventury effect gave better ignition in his rifles and improved accuracy. :?: :?: :?: All I can say is he got some impressive groups from his rifles.
Paul B.

 

[PJGunner]

WOW! Seems like a post got dropped. I'd posted a test I did with my .35 Whelen where I weighed the brass, reamed the flash hole, uniforemd the peimer pocket and all that other "good stuff" and compared the results against normally plaim unworked on brass. I saw no change in the groups. Might make a difference in a bench rest gun but in a regular run of the mill sporter it probably wouldn't make enough difference to notice. Naturally YMMV.
Paul B.

 

[Mud]

From what I have read on other forums they say to sort your brass by one grain groups. But personal i have not noticed any difference when I have wieght sorted my brass. As far as case prep goes consistency is key to getting repeatsble results.

Larry

 

[DrMike]

I'm adding this post for clarification on my previous, admittedly brief, post. Since most cases anymore (at least, whenever possible) are Norma or Nosler, I have no need to ream the flash hole. On Winchester and Remington brass, I do ream flash holes on the initial use.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Jim Beaux,

I think it makes a difference...if you want it to make a difference. Most of the brass prep I do is because I feel like it makes a difference, and because I mostly enjoy the brass prep. I sort brass based on neck thickness variance, turn necks, etc. I don't normally deburr flash holes as I use Nosler, Norma, or Lapua brass.

Especially with the neck turning, my loaded rounds show excellent concentricity. Normally less than 0.0015, but sometimes as large as 0.003. Almost never have a round that has more than 0.003 concentricity deviation.

I also sort brass by weight, but only because I purchase in units of 100 or more and sort into smaller units. I might as well sort by weight.

Does it make a difference? Probably not. But I like to eliminate possibilities until there's only one thing to blame for group size--the nut behind the trigger.

v/r
Joel

 

[Dr. Vette]

As for flash hole deburring, I've wondered if it's really a good investment of time. I've not done it, but I started inspecting new cases a few years ago with a fiber optic light, and for the life of me, in Rem/Win brass, I can't find much visible need to debur.

You ought to either get new glasses, :mrgreen: or go ahead and try a deburring tool.
On Win and Rem cases the primer hole is punched, and the "hanging chad" :shock: is right there off to the side in the majority of cases. Some of them are quite large.

Does it make a difference? I don't know because they all get deburred and the primer pockets get uniformed.

I purchased a few hundred 35 Rem cases to try and get a good batch to use for reloading. There is a huge weight spread and I'm not yet sure if I will sort them by weight to narrow down what I keep or if I won't care.

Patrick

 

[Guy Miner]

A buddy of mine is incredibly involved in case prep. He does everything I've ever heard of. Weighing, measuring, trimming, de-burring, neck sizing only, etc... etc... He may spend as much as 20 or 30 minutes on each case, making it as perfect as possible.

At his level of competition, it pays off.

He's taken the National Championship in "hunter benchrest" and is the finest benchrest shooter of my acquaintance. I've learned a lot from him over the years. He's also a very successful deer hunter.

As a hunter, and even as a competitor in NRA long-range highpower competition and in various "tactical" matches, I use some of his techniques, but only some. The level of perfection he achieves with his ammunition, and his rifle prep, would be wasted on me and my level of proficiency.

Winds that I can only estimate, up and down angles, elevation & temperature changes, inexact ranges, quartering targets moving farther or nearer, vagaries of light & shadow, my own ragged breathing from climbing a steep ridge for 30 minutes, my shooting position, sling or no sling, rest or no rest, wobbly rest, lack of food, lack of water... All that and more comes into play, and has a FAR greater effect on my ability to produce an accurate shot than if I'd spent an extra 10 minutes on each rifle case.

FWIW, Guy

 

[Jimbeaux82]

Thanks for all of the great advice and comments. General concensus is that deburring the flash hole on punched cases probably does help but weight sorting of cases probably does not.

That's why I love this board. Always get answers to the questions I have.

 

[Kodiak]

Weighing cases, not any more. Most stuff is within 3-4 grs; close enough!

I ream the flash-hole inside on all new cases, using Forester brand dies to size/resize all brass. I get zero bullet run-out and that goes a long ways toward tightening groups.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I sort cases by lot number. I only use Norma, Lapua, Nosler cases and sometimes W-W cases, sorted by the headstamp on the package. I do not mix them.

 

[BeeTee]

Trying to sort/prep cases, looking for better groups can be frustrating.

All of my commercial 223 cases at one time were trimmed for precise length, case mouth in/out deburred, primer flash hole uniformed and inside flash hole deburred. I didn't stop there.

At one time, I would separate fired 223 cases in groups of 5 that produced the best 5-shot groups - in the 0.2" range, thinking those cases were better matched to each other. Didn't make any difference, none at all. Subsequent groups shot using those same 5 cases could produce twice the group size. I would also mark and separate cases that produced an occasional flier in a group. Didn't make a difference. Too many other, less controllable variables negated any possible advantage in a factory rifle with a SAAMI chamber.

These days, I use a primer pocket uniformer simply as a handy primer pocket cleaner, and I keep case length in check. Not much else otherwise. BT

 

[Sas874runner]

Hey jim. These fellas all have some really good info. And as most of them stated it depends on what you want your rifle to do. Hunt or punch paper. I had a question about neck turning a while back and this site was recommended to me for the post this guy wrote. A bit long winded but has a lot o good info on loading. And how the most important aspects are consistancy and concentricity.

http://24hourcampfire.com/reloading.html

If you get 10-15 minutes take a quick read.

 

[Guest]

As for flash hole deburring, I've wondered if it's really a good investment of time. I've not done it, but I started inspecting new cases a few years ago with a fiber optic light, and for the life of me, in Rem/Win brass, I can't find much visible need to debur.

You ought to either get new glasses, :mrgreen: or go ahead and try a deburring tool.
On Win and Rem cases the primer hole is punched, and the "hanging chad" :shock: is right there off to the side in the majority of cases. Some of them are quite large.

Does it make a difference? I don't know because they all get deburred and the primer pockets get uniformed.

I purchased a few hundred 35 Rem cases to try and get a good batch to use for reloading. There is a huge weight spread and I'm not yet sure if I will sort them by weight to narrow down what I keep or if I won't care.

Patrick

Patrick,

I've seen the "chad" in a few, but not many of my cases. Maybe I'm just lucky as heck, but I've checked out everything from 243Win to 350RemMag, and found maybe 20% had any issues at all, and that includes flat spots, burrs, and "flash" hanging off the side of the punched hole. I'm getting sub-2" groups at 100yds in the 350Rem from a non-tweaked load, with open sights, so I'm pretty confident I'm just about as good as I'm going to get. My 30-06 is shooting half-minute groups out to beyond 200yds. My 8x57 goes about an inch, but it's never been any better than .95" anyway, so I'm not sure it has any more potential left.

I'm certainly not the expert, by any means, but for me, at 500yds and under, I can't find a reason to buy a flash hole tool. I certainly don't see any benefit to weighing cases. Now, I'm sure our mutual friend Jeff sees benefit, but his distances are such that any discrepancies would be thoroughly magnified. Your mileage may vary, of course. Maybe if I can get another 7mmRemMag I'll split up the virgin brass I have and doctor the flash holes in half the cases, and not in the other half, to see if it makes a difference.

 

[jimbires]

guys I don't think weighing the brass case will give you the results your looking for . the weight of the case is not going to tell the case capacity . I think the best way to sort brass is to use brass that has been fired at least two times . usually the first fire does not fully expand a new case , due to spring back . do not resize the case , or punch out the primer , after the second fire . weigh the empty case , then weigh the case filled with water . subtract the two numbers . the answer is the water capacity of this case . quick load will allow for the water capacity of the case to be changed , for more exact information .no where does quickload ask for case weight . I just feel the weight of the brass case is a very poor indicator of the actual volume . but as the other guys have said , what are you trying to accomplish ?
yes I do clean up the flash holes . while hunting at -20* and using a slow powder , I think getting rid of the burr could be the difference in a hang fire , and a trophy on the ground . I also think a even flame will give a more consistent powder ignition and this will help improve velocity extreme spread .velocity spread will cause vertical in your groups . if you don't buy any of this I will say , it can't hurt a thing , and it only takes minutes to do .

 

[ElmerThud]

Throwing my tuppenceworth in here, I can't say I found any great gains at all with weighing the cases & sorting them into weight groups.
I do de-burr the flash holes & pretty much everything I can to ensure re-sizing concentricity and correct headspacing. These two factors make the biggest difference in my view, to producing consistently reliable, sweetly feeding and accurate ammunition.

However, I'll accept readily 'every little helps' - just as long as it does no harm.
Just my view on this subject guys. Cheers, ATB

 

[Oldtrader3]

Springback is a function of exceeding elastic limit, the more times you do it, the less springback that you get. That is why most recommend FL sizing after 3-4 neck sizings. Losing 20% of cases or having to correct flasholes and removing chads. That is why in old age laziness, I am buying more Norma and/or Nosler cases.

I just got (50) .257 Roberts blems today from SPS and they are beautiful with machined flasholes and primer pockets. Even the neck chamfers are smooth as butter and the necks are already round! Avoiding scrap helps payback for good cases.

 

[Sas874runner]

Springback is a function of exceeding elastic limit, the more times you do it, the lass springback that you get. That is why most recommend FL sizing after 3-4 neck sizings. Losing 20% of cases or having to correct flasholes and removing chads. That is why in old age laziness, I am buying more Norma and/or Nosler cases.

+1 good brass makes night and day diffrence!