Crazier, and Crazier.

[DrMike]

You can't make this stuff up. I've watched this story for a couple of weeks now. Oregon is sending a man to jail and fining him $1500 for collecting rain water on his own property. The state claims exclusive ownership of all water--INCLUDING RAINWATER! If this is so, is Oregon liable for damage from rain? Are residents able to sue the state for flood damage, since the State's rain caused the damage? Is Oregon liable for any ruined outdoor weddings? For outdoor barbeques that are cancelled? For ... Well, it gets crazier and crazier. Will they lay claim to the air, next? Will they begin to jail residents for breathing too much? You really can't make this stuff up. :mrgreen:

 

[Kodiak]

Its not only the states that are wanting more $$$, many cities are in that boat also.

Our grandson rented a house and the city charged him a $300 "sewer connection fee". The existing sewer line has been hooked-up to that house for 75 years and none of the previous renters ever paid that fee. He will also be charged a "use" fee every month to access that line.
Times are achangin', again!!!!!!!

 

[aka Hunter]

The state claims exclusive ownership of all water--INCLUDING RAINWATER! If this is so, is Oregon liable for damage from rain?

I wonder what the law says? I wonder if it has something to do with the state claiming authority over man-made restrictions to the free flow of water?

 

[DrMike]

It seems as if the intent of the law is immaterial; what matters is the interpretation of the judge that happens to get the case. This is the basis for jurisdictional shopping--find a judge that agrees with your viewpoint.

 

[Oldtrader3]

In Blight-by-the-Bay, Washington on the Canadian border, hook up to the sewer is $3000, in addition to which, sewer use bills are now (in 2012) $120. per month.

If you have septic in Whatcom County Washington, as we do because we are below the sewer line, the county makes us pay $350. every 3 years to "inspect" our septic system with a private contractor, in addition to which, they always find a reason to pump the solid's tank which is a second trip costing $500+ each time. It is kind of like rape by proxy! This was a total of 1.5 hours of his time last summer costing $850!

Also, Bellingham, Washington just passed a law to outlaw merchants using plastic bags for groceries or anything else. This was done ostensibly because "the ocean is full of plastic bags"? No evidence to support this was advanced by the politicians! I would guess that some of the Chinese and Japanese factory fishing ships and trawlers have thrown their plastic bags overboard and the bags have drifted to our shores via the Japan current? So, China's punishment is for Bellingham's City Council to punish we innocent local people who don't litter, by banning plastic bags anywhere on our land! Makes perfect sense if you are an Enviro-terrorist!

 

[RiverRider]

Sounds like a scheme inspired by Agenda 21.

 

[Guest]

This is the logical, predictable course when people abdicate their personal responsibility in favor of government meeting their needs en masse. The day is coming when this nation makes a decisive choice to become an insolvent social democracy in toto, and the opportunity to return to a society of liberty is lost.

We've got people believing that clip with Jeff Daniels is about conservative freedom - and yet his example of other "free" countries is filled with social democracies who enjoy freedom only as long and as far as their masters in government allow it. They are not free by the Jeffersonian definition. They do not have liberty in the sense Jefferson meant it when he wrote the Declaration. We did - and still do in some parts of this country, but it is fast disappearing. A return to a federalist society is the only remedy. And that return must be vigilantly revived at every election. We lost sight of that during the 20th century and the result is multiple generations of sheep who have been taught and believe that government is the answer and individuals should defer to the collective.

 

[DrMike]

Well stated, dubyam. Well stated, indeed.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Ban Tee Vee!

 

[Guest]

You want to see where we're going? Read this short little piece from Vonnegut:

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

Equality for all!!!

 

[DrMike]

Good read, dubyam. It is what the least capable among us appear to want. Democracy, such as it were, will obtain it for them.

 

[Guest]

Therein lies the difference between democracy and a democratic republic. Too many people mistake the former for the latter.

 

[DrMike]

Too many people mistake the former for the latter.

How true. How sadly and tragically true.

 

[JD338]

We need to flush the system of liberals.
They are all nuts.

JD338

 

[aka Hunter]

We need to flush the system of liberals.
They are all nuts.

Would Jesus have been considered a liberal?

 

[RiverRider]

I would say "no."

The reason I say so is that in order to follow Jesus, you must do so voluntarily. When a gift is given, it is to be given out of love and therefore voluntarily. Everything required of a Christian is to be rendered voluntarily or it is meaningless.

Liberalism does away with voluntary charity and voluntary goodness. Goodness and charity are defined by the liberal-run state, and compliance on the part of "good" citizens is coerced. Nothing is any longer voluntary.

In order for a person to live in a way that reflects submission to God, the person must be free to choose not to do so. Then and only then does it have any meaning.

Being recognized as "good" in a liberal society would be too much like a man with no hands receiving an award for not stealing.

 

[DrMike]

Being recognized as "good" in a liberal society would be too much like a man with no hands receiving an award for not stealing.

Well said, RR.

 

[aka Hunter]

I would say "no."

The reason I say so is that in order to follow Jesus, you must do so voluntarily....

Liberalism does away with voluntary charity and voluntary goodness. Goodness and charity are defined by the liberal-run state, and compliance on the part of "good" citizens is coerced.

But, my question was, "Would Jesus have been considered a liberal?" His teachings were anti-establishment -- e.g., not storing up treasures on earth, and not worrying about tomorrow, and helping the poor, and treating everyone with love. Based on some of the passages in the gospels attributed to Jesus, I'm not sure that I know anyone who follows many of His teachings. In fact, some of those teachings remind me of some of what I hear "liberals" talking about.

As for "doing away with voluntary charity," I believe "the church" has failed the poor people; thus, the gov't had to step in to fill the gap.

BTW, thanks for responding, and I'm not trying to point fingers or throw rocks by my question and comments.

 

[JD338]

RR nailed it. Well put sir.

Counselor,

The liberals take from us what they feel is theirs and give us what they feel we should have.
Pretty far from voluntary.

JD338

 

[RiverRider]

I get the sense of the question, but not storing up treasures on earth, and not worrying about tomorrow, and helping the poor, and treating everyone with love are not ideals realized in contemporary liberalism. Contemporary liberalism is about making others support someone else's idea of goodness---using those ideals as justification.

The church has failed no one, but rather has been abandoned by those who could be helped. They flocked to the State instead; the State won't make people face the truth about the situations in which they place and find themselves.