Educated "estimates" for an efficient powder for my wildcat?

[350JR]

Picture me here with my head on a chopping block.

I'm in amongst a much more knowledgable group of guys concerning loading for a mid range bore cartridge.

About to head out for another nasty 12 hour night shift but thought I would leave this question with you to be able to come home and grab some info from you all on it.

Notice I said "estimates" concerning a powder...maybe even an expected max load (pretty far out there for anyone to guess, I know).

I have Varget and one no one hardly ever mentions but...in weeks of looking at powders I cant see a reason this shouldnt do quite well.......IMR 8208 XBR.

Burn rates right beside TAC and H4895, known for consistancy and immunity to temp changes and it also falls into the case capacity range. Its listed for the 338 Fed and 308 Win but not for the 358 win which is the same brass (near twin to my case in capacity) and the same bullet diameter and weights, so.......I had to do a lot of estimating on it.

Only thing Im scratching my head over is the going by the VMD of the powder (that I know changes some) I can get a bit more in the newly formed (not fired and neck sized) than MY calculations says I should be able to.

To the bottom of the neck, 49 grains isnt needing any tapping on the case to settle below the bottom of the neck in this FL sized brass. A couple H20 measurements had 58.7 for a full case, again, with unfired brass.

Bullets are going to be the 225 gr BT and the Sierra 225 gr GK and some Speer 220 flat point for the most part.

Wanting to pick another up but in a bit faster burn rate I thought I'd pick up some Benchmark.

Thoughts on these powders, how you'd estimate they would perform and primer suggestions for these three powders would also be taken into consideration.

For those of you not yet familiar with my 350JR rantings, its a 350 Rem mag shortened (no other changes) to 1.795" brass length.

Think of me at midnight when there is still 5 hours of work to go! :roll: and accept my gratitude in advance.

PS.......TAC is not available locally but the VV powders are!

GodBles
Steve

 

[FOTIS]

I will.post when I get home

 

[DrMike]

Give me your measurements on the case.

 

[FOTIS]

VihtaVuori N130
VihtaVuori N133
Hodgdon BENCHMARK

Alliant Reloder 10X

 

[350JR]

PM to you DrMike.
Thanks to both.

With only the 358win for a somewhat close comparison, the thing I found most curious is the two distinctly different burn rate ranges that kept popping up in shooter's preferences.

One would be in the H4895, TAC burn rate range and the other, close to yours FOTIS is the faster powders several jumps down the burn chart, all the way down to 4198, AA2015 and similar.

These were with the 225 grain bullets as well and with an old fashioned "fast powder/lighter bullet or slower powder/heavier bullet" train of thought that I have, I knew I needed to ask some questions.

Such a wide diversity in burn rates for one round with the same weight range bullets just put everying in the "TILT! TILT!" area of my old brain.

While this ISNT a 358 Win, and many factors effect the results overall, it IS a starting point and why I went with one powder in the upper range and planning on one other in the faster range. Varget I had and is an old standby for many. Worth a shot, I thought.

I'm not going to have the time to test more than 3 powders with various charges. The gunsmith says the reamer is enroute (PRAISE THE LORD AND THANK YOU!!) with an eta of end of next week the earliest and a few days more at the latest.

Ideas and reasonings are very, very much appreciated but I'm flat at a loss, unless I happened accross a very dense lb of IMR8208, just how I can fit 49 grains to the base of the neck. Unless Im calculating incorrectly that's a good 3 grains more than the numbers come out at. Not a HUGE amount but enough to put me into pause mode and take another look.

(oh yeah........I tend to over think things. Living alone and never with "idle thoughts"....it's been my curse/blessing. A PIA sometimes but such did give me the 350JR!)

hopefully Im not making myself a PIA as well.
God Bless
Steve

 

[Oldtrader3]

The only way that I know to do it is to calculate the bore to case capacity ratio once you have that, you can use a Powley Computer to give you a starting load for that case. Look up Powley Computer online and follow instructions. If you need halp let me know.

 

[DrMike]

350JR, I sent you a PM with some data.

 

[onesonek]

Almost sounds like the case capacity be slightly more than the .308 Win..

 

[DrMike]

According to my calculations, with the 225 BT, usable case capacity on the .358 Win is 42.73 grains of water. With the same bullet, usable case capacity on the 350 JR is 43.90 grains of water.

 

[onesonek]

I wasn't too far off with a guess.
I really need to get a load program :lol:

 

[DrMike]

I wasn't too far off with a guess.

You were quite close, Dave. :grin:

 

[FOTIS]

FYI the 358 Win has a max capacity of 57.00 gr and a useful capacity of 42.212 gr with the 225 Ab

Loads should be twins.

 

[350JR]

No online much. Electrical problem at home Waiting on electrician. Fun fun.

HOW COME "usable capacity" is so low? I can get 50.4 or so grains of water to the bottom of the neck, in new sized brass.

 

[DrMike]

Overflow capacity differs from usable case capacity. Usable case capacity (62.2 grains of deoxygenated water to form a convex meniscus) takes into consideration the bullet when seated in the case. You can always seat the bullet out farther, allowing for increased charge and moderating chamber pressure.

 

[350JR]

Ok........guess Ill see how it goes next weekend. Knew it was just a wee bit larger than the 358 Win. Depending on the chamber its up in the air where it will be when once fired.

Still lost on the amount of 8208 I can put in it.

Even at 50 grains the measured capacity dont come out to the calculated with VMD.

50 divided by 15.4 divided by .07150 (for 8208) is 45.41 grains and 49 will fit nicely below the neck. 48.5 of Varget.

IM CONFUSED........lol Ill catch on...just old and slow.

Thanks guys
God Bless

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : .350 JR
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler AccuBond 50712
Useable Case Capaci: 43.902 grain H2O = 2.851 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.425 inch = 61.60 mm
Here you go.

Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 35.60 1974 1946 30470 4557 87.8 1.485
-18.0 90 36.49 2022 2042 32546 4698 89.0 1.446
-16.0 92 37.38 2070 2140 34770 4837 90.1 1.407
-14.0 95 38.27 2118 2240 37156 4971 91.2 1.370
-12.0 97 39.16 2166 2343 39716 5100 92.2 1.329
-10.0 99 40.05 2214 2448 42466 5225 93.2 1.291
-08.0 101 40.94 2262 2556 45422 5344 94.1 1.254
-06.0 103 41.83 2310 2666 48605 5458 94.9 1.219
-04.0 106 42.72 2358 2778 52028 5565 95.7 1.184
-02.0 108 43.61 2406 2893 55694 5665 96.4 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 44.50 2455 3010 59643 5758 97.1 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 112 45.39 2503 3129 63911 5844 97.7 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 46.28 2551 3251 68532 5921 98.2 1.058 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 117 47.17 2599 3375 73543 5990 98.7 1.029 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 48.06 2647 3501 78991 6050 99.1 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 48.95 2695 3629 84925 6100 99.4 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 44.50 2564 3285 71243 5670 99.8 1.045 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 44.50 2309 2663 48588 5581 90.7 1.216

 

[Oldtrader3]

Case capacity of the 35 Rem is 51 grains H20. That is close enough tho start with starting loads, plus it is just slightly under the .300 Savage as well. I would look at these two cartridges starting loads and go up from there.

 

[350JR]

Try it with the OAL cartridge length of 2.800 with the 225 BT.....if you would?

More interested in what powders pop up then than velocity.

Godbless

 

[DrMike]

Of course, you are asking about the 350 RM. Here you go.

Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler BalTip 35225
Useable Case Capaci: 54.333 grain H2O = 3.528 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 54570 psi, or 376 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma 203 old 109.0 55.2 3.58 2578 97.9 54570 7370 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 106.9 50.6 3.28 2569 100.0 54570 6771 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 103.5 53.4 3.46 2564 99.4 54570 7012 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 110.0 58.3 3.78 2555 90.9 53324 7583 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 110.0 58.3 3.78 2555 90.9 53324 7583 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 107.3 54.9 3.56 2543 94.6 54570 7283 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 96.3 51.7 3.35 2518 98.9 54570 6753 1.151 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 56.3 3.65 2499 93.3 48016 7494 1.179
IMR 4007 SSC 107.9 54.8 3.55 2483 90.4 54570 6934 1.145 ! Near Maximum !

 

[350JR]

ok........to be clear MY ROUND, the 350JR, with a .225 BT seated is 2.8 inches long.

What did I miss? 350 RM?