For the none-reloader: Stick to standard rounds?

[CanuckBen]

For guys like me still doing the transition between being a archery-hunter to the long range shooting&hunting, would for example the 6.5x284 be an wise choice as a none-reloader?

Or am I looking down the same barrel as the .280AI as far as choice of ammo goes? I know that Nosler has their TGA in 6.5x284Norma, same for HSM Trophy Gold..

At $60/box for the Nosler TG for 20rounds, it's quite a bit more expensive than say .308 @ $35 (here in Cdn).

My only thought about this for the moment would be that, for the long run investment, I could be to go with a .280AI chambered rifle into which I would be able to use standard .280 round, save the fired casing who'll now have been fireformed for my later use when I am able to reload on my own..

Thoughts?

 

[DrMike]

Ben,

There is some wisdom in using standard rounds. However, hand loading (while intimidating at first) is actually reasonably easy. The minimally adept hand loader will produce accurate ammunition shortly after initiating the process. Regardless of whether you choose to go with a somewhat novel cartridge or stick with one that is more readily available, save the brass. There is always someone willing to buy it from you if you choose not to hand load. There are a lot of us pulling for you to take the plunge to begin rolling your own.

 

[JD338]

Reloading will be the best way to save money on shooting cost.
To best answer your question, how much shooting and when do you plan on getting into reloading? If it is short term, get the caliber you want and save the brass. If it is going to be more long term, the 280 option would be a good one.
The sooner you ca get into reloading the better. We are here to help. :wink:
The AI has always appealed to me because you can use parent factory loads in a pinch.

BTW, the 280 AI is a top performer and has a lot of cool factor.

JD338

 

[Polaris]

It sounds like you're a bit enamoured with the "cool factor" of all these sexy, trendy rounds we have floating around these days. Remember one thing about trends, they can and do go out of fashion, then nobody makes accessories for them (ammunition). There are so many new superduper magnums and commercialized wildcats from the last 10-15 years or so, they cannot all survive. Many will go the way of the 225 winchester, 6.5 Rem mag, and the Norma magnums. Fine, versatile rounds but very limited ammo options if you can find any.

The .25-06, .270 win, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06 and 300 Win Mag have been killing a lot of game for 50-106 years and will probably continue to do so for another 100. Unless you're hunting grizzly bears one of those is all the gun you're gonna need and none of these rounds are becoming orphans anytime soon. A bonus of these is you can walk into Cabelas and have multiple ammo options for all of them including bargain priced big box stuff for range practice.

I believe the custom "cool factor" and even the newlatestgreatest calibers are best left to reloaders. Reloading is however a very rewarding hobby you may wish to take up.

 

[CanuckBen]

Ben,

There is some wisdom in using standard rounds. However, hand loading (while intimidating at first) is actually reasonably easy. The minimally adept hand loader will produce accurate ammunition shortly after initiating the process. Regardless of whether you choose to go with a somewhat novel cartridge or stick with one that is more readily available, save the brass. There is always someone willing to buy it from you if you choose not to hand load. There are a lot of us pulling for you to take the plunge to begin rolling your own.

I totally hear what you're saying Mike. I assisted on a few reloads sessions and as I am pretty handy and mechanically inclined I am pretty sure I'd be able to do it on my own, however I don't have anyone close to me to teach me. The freind I did it is about 6hrs from me, so in-person reload training is out of the question.

I'm also a very visual person, so I wonder if you could recommend a good dvd on reloading? Definately the reloading manuals are the go-to, but seeing it live step by step would be key for me.

Tks
Ben

 

[JD338]

Ben,

There is some wisdom in using standard rounds. However, hand loading (while intimidating at first) is actually reasonably easy. The minimally adept hand loader will produce accurate ammunition shortly after initiating the process. Regardless of whether you choose to go with a somewhat novel cartridge or stick with one that is more readily available, save the brass. There is always someone willing to buy it from you if you choose not to hand load. There are a lot of us pulling for you to take the plunge to begin rolling your own.

I totally hear what you're saying Mike. I assisted on a few reloads sessions and as I am pretty handy and mechanically inclined I am pretty sure I'd be able to do it on my own, however I don't have anyone close to me to teach me. The freind I did it is about 6hrs from me, so in-person reload training is out of the question.

I'm also a very visual person, so I wonder if you could recommend a good dvd on reloading? Definately the reloading manuals are the go-to, but seeing it live step by step would be key for me.

Tks
Ben

Ben,

All your buddies here at noslerreloading are a mouse click away from assisting you!!! :grin:

Pick up a couple loading manuals and read the introductions and basic hand loading info.

Once you have done that, we will help you select all the equipment you need to fit your budget and get you started.
I have been loading for 36 years and there are several others here that have been at it longer than me.
I also have International calling so we can talk on the phone too. :wink:

JD338

 

[CanuckBen]

Reloading will be the best way to save money on shooting cost.
To best answer your question, how much shooting and when do you plan on getting into reloading? If it is short term, get the caliber you want and save the brass. If it is going to be more long term, the 280 option would be a good one.
The sooner you ca get into reloading the better. We are here to help. :wink:
The AI has always appealed to me because you can use parent factory loads in a pinch.

BTW, the 280 AI is a top performer and has a lot of cool factor.

JD338

I would get into reloading as soon as possible - as I mentioned above, having someone teach me who can be a phone call away (and a short drive to be in-person) would be key for me taking the plunge into it tomorrow, but alas, that isn't the case.

I do shoot (clay) as much as I can (all other house/work/life/sport activities thrown in the mix), but rifle shooting has been kept at a minimal. As I'm gathering the required equipement and misc accessories, I am getting more and more excited about the long range shooting as a sport/hobby - the clay shootin' I will go back too later down the road, but for now I'm getting a little tired of it.

I've been reading alot of your opinions on the 280AI and it's the performance of it that I really like. I've been wanting a 7mm RM or 300 WinMag for a while now, but having the 280AI perform right up to the 7mmRM is pretty appealing.

The cost of the rifle I'm looking at buying from this particuliar company is $500 more in the magnum calibers, but the ammo is cheaper and easier to get. If I was to not start reloading, the price difference in the rifle Vs extra cost of wildcat ammo such as there would come out in the wash in about 20boxes of ammo, which isn't alot with how much I plan on shooting. I figure it'll cost me about $1,000-1,400 or so for quality reloading equipement so I'm really at a crossroad here !

 

[CanuckBen]

Ben,

There is some wisdom in using standard rounds. However, hand loading (while intimidating at first) is actually reasonably easy. The minimally adept hand loader will produce accurate ammunition shortly after initiating the process. Regardless of whether you choose to go with a somewhat novel cartridge or stick with one that is more readily available, save the brass. There is always someone willing to buy it from you if you choose not to hand load. There are a lot of us pulling for you to take the plunge to begin rolling your own.

I totally hear what you're saying Mike. I assisted on a few reloads sessions and as I am pretty handy and mechanically inclined I am pretty sure I'd be able to do it on my own, however I don't have anyone close to me to teach me. The freind I did it is about 6hrs from me, so in-person reload training is out of the question.

I'm also a very visual person, so I wonder if you could recommend a good dvd on reloading? Definately the reloading manuals are the go-to, but seeing it live step by step would be key for me.

Tks
Ben

Ben,

All your buddies here at noslerreloading are a mouse click away from assisting you!!! :grin:

Pick up a couple loading manuals and read the introductions and basic hand loading info.

Once you have done that, we will help you select all the equipment you need to fit your budget and get you started.
I have been loading for 36 years and there are several others here that have been at it longer than me.
I also have International calling so we can talk on the phone too. :wink:

JD338

Certainly this is one of the best board I've been a member of, no doubts there 8)

Gotta head outside for some early-spring lawn care, but will be back later this pm to see how much poorer I can make myself be lol

Tks guys, much appreciated.

 

[BK]

Reloading will be the best way to save money on shooting cost.

I'm callin' BS on this one. I may (well, used to, and will again) shoot a bunch more, but saving money? Not a chance!

 

[DrMike]

Ben,

You are always welcome to phone. While I'm more than three days away, I'm more than willing to share what I have learned. I have never used any of the multiplied DVDs that are currently marketed, but I believe the series provided through Sierra (https://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=store&page=items&cat=2) is valuable. I know that both Speer and Barnes provide considerable visual help on either of their sites.

 

[SJB358]

Ben, between the How To's in the reloading manual and everyone here, I would almost bet a stripe that we would have you up and running very shortly. Doesn't take the absolute most expensive equipment either to get going. Get quality stuff and good dies and you will have excellent ammo. Trust me, no need in breaking the bank to get into it. Start small, with good quality stuff and you will be very happy. Loading is very straight forward, and like Jim, I have International calling and am only a few clicks away. Good luck buddy. Hope you come around.

 

[6mm Remington]

You will love reloading and once you start you will never stop. I agree in that you don't have to break the bank to get started. I would buy good quality stuff from the start so you don't have to upgrade and replace later on. In my opinion, it's worth it. That does not mean though that you have to have THE BEST stuff to do this, but it's important to have quality well made reloading equipment.

I find that I like to completely concentrate when I reload and I shut the door to the room and I don't even have a radio playing on low. I do not want to have any distractions. Once you do it a few times, figure out the order of things and how you want to do it, and then follow that order every time. It smooths it out for me at least and I know at the end that each step has been accomplished. Slow and methodical works for me, it's not a race.

Love to help in any way that I can.
David

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I would stick with a standard cartridge AND start reloading your own. If you can read and follow written directions, seriously...I know some have difficulty with this, you can learn to reload. As mentioned, there are many here who can talk you thru any problem you encounter. This forum is a godsend for sound advice and the lack of drama found on 90% of the other forums.

You can get a solid setup for ~$400 and be able to start your money-saving. :roll:

The .25-06, .270 win, 280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06 and 300 Win Mag have been killing a lot of game for 50-106 years and will probably continue to do so for another 100. Unless you're hunting grizzly bears one of those is all the gun you're gonna need and none of these rounds are becoming orphans anytime soon. A bonus of these is you can walk into Cabelas and have multiple ammo options for all of them including bargain priced big box stuff for range practice.

Quoted for truth.

 

[CanuckBen]

Thank you all for the offers of help, truly appreciate it all.

I do like quality items, that it'd be my music gear, mountain skying equipment and in my firearms. I don't have the best rifle out there, but my Benelli Vinci Cordoba sure does the job really efficiently!

I absolutely hate doing or purchasing things twice, so I would most likely go for the mid-higher end range of product. I will start a new thread in the Reloading section - thinking that perhaps compiling a list of products from your suggestions will be not only helpfull to me but to others who may be getting into it as well.

The question that really only I can anwser is which caliber to go with and its a topic that's been discussed A LOT - there's a great thread that McSeal2 started and that covers the exact 3 calibers that I could purchase right now - 270 Win (really great choice of ammo, from many different manifacturer), the 280AI (great performance that keeps up with the 7mm RemMag and I can use the regular 280Rem if I want too) and the 6.5x284 (another wildcat, but with a thin choice of ammo and its up there in price as well). I will go read it over once again. Don't want to waiste any of your time some more as its just been discussed.

All in all, any of these cartridges would be great for long range shooting and hunting - and I don't intend to use it on large games anyways, eventhough they would be more than capable of at the distances I would be hunting in. This will be my future goat & sheep gun when it'll see hunting action with it, but my abilities are limited and wouldn't want to take a shot at a game at long distances (300-400 and up).

The advantages of these calibers is that I don't have to spend the extra $400 to have a brake installed on it right away (remember I'm coming from the archery world ) whereas with the 7mmRM and 300WM, yeah it would have a brake installed right away !

Price wise, I'm looking at $2,000-2,200, depending on the choice of synthetic or wallnut. The magnum calibers will $500 extra (not entirely sure why, but it is what it is). The only reason I'd go with a magnum caliber is if I come into the extra $500 unexpectidely (the cost of the brake I don't have a problem with)

An idea of the dilema I'm facing as far as which stock to go with:
http://s768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/GoldTopBen/Cooper Firearms/

I love both wallnut and synthetic stocks, but I gotta say that their wood stocks are pretty darn nice to look at!!

 

[SJB358]

It is really hard to go wrong with any of them. The 270 and 280 are great cartridges and 400 yards isn't even really pushing them too awfully hard at all.

What about the Sako's Ben? Do you not like them? They seem like another great option and are very accurate from all I have seen... Just wondering why the Sako has alluded your sights!

 

[Guy Miner]

"I would stick with a standard cartridge AND start reloading your own."

Yup. There's a reason cartridges get to be thought of as "standard" and are so popular. They work.

What all do you intend to hunt? The .30-06, mundane as that choice might seem, remains a favorite all-around cartridge of mine. If I stayed with just one cartridge, reloader or not, it would be high on my list. Frankly, I'd hunt any big game in North America with it, and yes, I'd take a 400 yard shot if necessary, even with my well worn old .30-06 rifle. With a better/newer barrel, I'd stretch it farther. German Salazar (a noted long-range prone competitor) has used a .30-06 in recent years to shoot some very impressive scores at 1000 yards... Food for thought.

Some of the nice things about "mild" cartridges like the .30-06 and the .308 Win is that they are easy on barrels, easy on the shoulder, easy on the wallet and decidedly NOT easy on game. Here's a link to a good article on hunting loads for the .30-06 cartridge:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/May_2009.html

A good 180 gr .30 cal bullet at 2800 fps is formidable. My 7mm mag only shoved a 175 at 2900 fps - not enough difference to matter afield. It's been at least 25 years since I first put a 180 gr .30 cal Nosler into game - and even that first time - on a wild boar - it went right through the heart and killed quickly with an exit wound. The .30's work well.

I'd strayed from hunting with the .308 and the .30-06 in recent years, having become enamored of cartridges both larger and smaller, the .25-06 for deer and the .375 for bear. Last season my son and I used our old .30's on deer, and we were both impressed with how quickly game dropped and also with the big exit wounds and copious blood loss - we hadn't been seeing that with our smaller bore hunting rifles, although we have been getting good quick kills with the smaller rifles too.

Just a thought - I don't see a lot of advantage to slinging magnums for the most part. Despite my admiration for the .375 and others.

Regards, Guy

 

[wildgene]

Reloading will be the best way to save money on shooting cost.

I'm callin' BS on this one. I may (well, used to, and will again) shoot a bunch more, but saving money? Not a chance!

...well, there's saving, & then there's "Saving"...

...w/ the standard vanilla, say, .270, .308, .30-06 the actual savings over factory available rounds don't amount to that much...

...but when you get into the slightly esoteric, say .25 WSSM, .325 WSM, .41 RM the "Savings" over available factory (when you can find it), rapidly becomes substantial, no matter how much you shoot...

 

[Polaris]

A very fine option for your tastes would be either the previously mentioned SAKO or a Tikka T3 in 6.5X55. Loaded to Lapua high pressure data (for modern rifles only) the ballistics exceed 6.5X284. It is the 30-06 of Scandinavia. Either platform is extraordinarily well made, nicely built.

The 6.5 swede is a venerable old cartridge. Ammo is fairly widely available.

 

[SJB358]

Reloading will be the best way to save money on shooting cost.

I'm callin' BS on this one. I may (well, used to, and will again) shoot a bunch more, but saving money? Not a chance!

...well, there's saving, & then there's "Saving"...

...w/ the standard vanilla, say, .270, .308, .30-06 the actual savings over factory available rounds don't amount to that much...

...but when you get into the slightly esoteric, say .25 WSSM, .325 WSM, .41 RM the "Savings" over available factory (when you can find it), rapidly becomes substantial, no matter how much you shoot...

I am with you Gene, I can load alot of WSM and Win Mag ammo with premium bullets, for practice. Could not do nearly as much if I was paying for it by the box. Plus, most of mine need a little tuning to get optimal accuracy. Just don't have the patience to try that with 50.00 and above factory ammo. Some of it is pretty good stuff, but I have met or exceeded pretty much all of it with tailored ammo so far.

 

[CanuckBen]

It is really hard to go wrong with any of them. The 270 and 280 are great cartridges and 400 yards isn't even really pushing them too awfully hard at all.

What about the Sako's Ben? Do you not like them? They seem like another great option and are very accurate from all I have seen... Just wondering why the Sako has alluded your sights!

Love the Sako's! Nothing wrong with the manifacturer, great action & trigger - heck one of the very/top best. Really can't go wrong with one.

As for the price, a 85Hunter/Bavarian will sell for $1,899 whereas the Cooper's sell between $1999 and $2199 for essentially a semi-custom rifle (same for the Nosler TGR really, except they offer it in a wallnut stock as well), which my dealer would do a tax-in deal the last time we talked about prices. If they were say $1,500 then the $500 price difference would make a difference. That said, the one thing that I should say is that I do prefer the raised, almost full Monte-Carlo comb of the Cooper's. That style seems to just fit my body physique better.

The idea to own a semi-custom rifle that I know will be very unique here in Quebec is also (quite)appealling I have to admit, so yeah there's bit of a showing it off in there :wink: !

This new rifle will mostly, well pretty much only see action at the shooting range as again, I do all of my big game hunts during the archery season, which for us in Quebec is on the peek of the rut of moose and deer hunting and there's no way my hunting partners would move away from that (and I do like it as well). I do plan on making out west for a sheep and goat hunt at some point in the (near) future, but for now, it'll be a range queen (eventhough its not a full-on range rifle).