Kimber 84M Classic - difficult extraction SOLVED!

[RiverRider]

I swapped into a Kimber 84M in .243 last summer. It's one of the sexiest little rifles I've ever seen. The first time out it showed me it could shoot, but my handloading development was stymied by extremely difficult extraction.

I'd always stop at very low charges because of the extraction difficulties. I began to think that it was my brass...I'd laid in a bunch of once-fired 7.62 NATO brass, necked it down, turned the necks, and annealed it. The weird think was I could sometimes replicate the stickiness by chambering a case that I had just full-length sized, which led me to begin thinking the case heads has been expanded just enough to give me problems.

I figured I needed some fresh, unfired brass. To my dismay, I could not find any .243 brass locally. Then I decided I should be able to neck down some new .260 brass and it would be no different from fresh .243 brass. I did this, and I was once again confronted with very difficult extraction even with very mild loads (100-grain Partitions ov 42.0 grains of H4831SC).

Polishing the chamber seemed fix it, but by now I am deciding I no longer have any real use for a .243 so I put the rifle up for swap. I figure I'd better make sure the extraction issue is truly resolved. So I cycle five empty cases through it and the difficult extraction once again makes an appearance and I take the rifle off the market.

I sat and fiddled with the rifle for several hours over the next few days and finally concluded that the extraction issue had nothing to do with the lugs, the extractor, or the chamber. I began to suspect the area of the breech between the lug recesses and the feed ramp. Some empty cases would bind the bolt up and some would not, and I began to realize that the bolt face would hold the case head in the same position time after time but slight variations in case dimensions made some cases stick more fiercely than others. It finally dawned on me...

The area I have circled in red was where the problem resided---that, plus the area above it which is not so visible or easily photographed. The tolerances were just a bit too tight (or there may have been a burr, possibly). Honing with a wooden dowel wrapped in 400-grit sandpaper spun slowly in an electric drill took care of the problem. I just got back from the range and fired 18 handloads without experiencing a single extraction problem.

Now maybe I can actually develop a load without always wondering if everything I am firing is too hot!

 

[Kodiak]

The Montana model is a rifle I thought I'd really have to own. The fit & finish are really great on these rifles. Then one day at the range, a fellow shooter had one he was getting ready to sell. He said that the bolt-handle had broken off the bolt during normal use at the range, testing loads. WOW! How'd ya like that to happen while cycling your second shot into a charging grizzly???

He sent it in to be repaired and received it back in 6 months. I lost interest in owning one right away, sorry.

 

[SJB358]

Glad you got your problem squared away. Looking forward to hearing how the little Kimber shoots. Seems like just such a difference between their 1911's and their rifles. I have shot alot of their 1911's and they have been flawless for the most part. The rifles, well, when there good, there really good. Just the opposite seems to pop up a little though.. They are very sweet rifles though. Scotty

 

[DrMike]

When the Kimbers shoot, they shoot well. Your report causes me to wonder if QC issues are not still cropping up.

 

[RiverRider]

I don't know the manufacture date on my rifle, but I am sure there are still QC issues cropping up. I am hearing more and more about the latest production 1911s---not good. It really is a shame that they don't address these issues. There for a while Kimber was pretty much at the top of the heap for 1911s.

I once found a very interesting thread in another forum somewhere about what went on at Kimber of Oregon while Greg Warne still ran the operation. One poster claimed to be a tester for new production rifles. The story goes that he was test firing a rifle chambered in some unusual caliber using some factory ammunition, and the thing exploded into shrapnel on the first shot. He was injured but not mangled. The story goes that when a supplier of reamers called the offices to clarify a special order, a receptionist told them to send a "target" reamer (of some sort) since Kimber rifles were "supposed to be accurate." Evidently the rifle was chambered a lot tighter than a SAAMI-spec chamber would normally be, leading to catastrophe. That's just "loosey goosey" operating procedure, if you ask me...people who are competent should be responsible for all these decisions but if the story IS true (and I do not doubt it), Kimber of Oregon was doomed to fail from the beginning. I even found something that purportedly quoted Greg Warne as saying that it didn't really matter if the product was really accurate at all since he was making rifles to be admired and collected, not shot. Yikes. And Warne was really a "wood" guy, not a firearms guy...which probably goes some distance in explaining KoA's failure.

On the other hand, I have personally seen Kimber rifles turn in outstanding performance. My uncle had a nice 84 in .223 Remington that shot *lights out* and he also had a sweet little 82 in .22LR that was just as impressive.

Now that this particular rifle is on the path toward good behavior, I think I may be able to wring some real accuracy out of it. It was always unnerving to run into sticky extraction at starting load levels, and I think that kept me from pushing on up into the pressure ranges that provide the best ignition and combustion. I am optimistic!

 

[Guy Miner]

Glad the issue was resolved. Now hopefully that little rifle will turn out to be a shooter!

I've been sorely tempted by Kimber many times - but because of reported QC problems have avoided them. If I'm going to lay down over a grand on a rifle, I want to know it's going to work right. From the start. I'd think it would be especially frustrating dealing with a limited production/semi-custom maker when the rifle doesn't perform.

For something above the standard factory rifle, I think I'd look hard at Nosler and Cooper.

Regards, Guy

 

[Kodiak]

RR,

Best of luck with the Kimber. Sound as though you're on the way to resolving the problem,

Jim

 

[RiverRider]

Thanks Jim. I hope the danged bolt handle doesn't decide to go its own way!

:shock:

 

[DrMike]

For something above the standard factory rifle, I think I'd look hard at Nosler and Cooper.

+1

I should think that would be a wise move.

 

[BK]

Hmmm, I think I'm going to take my 8400 out Thursday and run a few through her. I guess I'll find out what the recoil of a lightweight .325 WSM is really like.

 

[Anonymous]

I've had a number of Kimbers and found them to be very accurate and well made rifles...all of mine were from before Kimber was the 'in' thing and production numbers were pretty low.

As production ramped up, the QC thing reared its head which isn't uncommon. While I don't doubt the QC issues Kimber buyers experienced (I've seen exactly one out of many rifles)- the Internet has magnified those beyond all reason. Heck...we still have folks buying Remingtons and they've made a documentary about their issues.

But with the Nosler 48 on the market...there's simply no comparison in those two rifles...

 

[RiverRider]

I agree with the criticisms. For the price you pay for a Kimber, you should get a rifle that functions flawlessly. I swapped into this 84M because I was seduced by its beauty and the fact that it handles more like a 10-22 than any centerfire I ever owned. If I were to go shopping with cash in hand and pick something out for less than $1000, I'd lean toward one of the new-production Model 70s. I picked one up in .25-06 last month, and I love the rifle! I've only had it out twice, but I can already tell it's going to be a shooter. I love the CRF and 3-position safety on the 70s, and the ones I've had functioned slicker than any other rifle I've ever owned.

If my fortunes change and I can ever buy more expensive rifles, Ill definitely give the Nosler a look. I've seen the ads and I am impressed, but word of mouth is golden and they are highly thought of in these environs. I've never seen a Nosler rifle, but if it's anything like the Dakotas I've seen, well...UUUMMMMMMMMMMM!