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Handloader
- Dec 26, 2007
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New Artilce - IS THERE REALLY A PRATICAL ADVANTAGE?
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Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
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Read it a bit ago, earlier this morning, and thoroughly enjoyed.
For the most part, I completely agree. Sometimes though, I just plain like shooting a magnum! :mrgreen:
For the most part, I completely agree. Sometimes though, I just plain like shooting a magnum! :mrgreen:
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Handloader
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Guy Miner":18vcamz2 said:
Hey me to Guy as you all know, the big boomers are fun to shoot and if one handles one well and shoots one well they are fun to take game with.
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bullet
Handloader
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russ808":qerrrqi7 said:
Good point, I hadn't thought about that.
So us .30-06 class luddites are on to something with our wimpy efficient cartridges? :wink:
Not to knock guys that shoot magnums, but at our range's sight-in days and even club members free shooting, most guys that can quote a ballistic table to 600 yards for their lead tipped coke bottles have a hard time hitting the black off a bench at 100.
Not to knock guys that shoot magnums, but at our range's sight-in days and even club members free shooting, most guys that can quote a ballistic table to 600 yards for their lead tipped coke bottles have a hard time hitting the black off a bench at 100.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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Mike, nice article. I go to the range at least twice a week in the warmer weather. I shoot everything in calibers from the .204 through the .340 Weatherby (now sold) to the 9.3x74R. I shoot my larger calibers and magnums more than my light calibers except for the .257 Roberts (older FN action) which I am refurbishing, refinishing and doing load development on. This because I always want to be sharp with the magnums and heavier calibers like the 7mm Mag, .338 Federal and 9.3mm.
Many shooters at our club are older and go to the range frequently. Most of these guys shoot really well because they practice and they have been at it for 40+ years. The many younger guys at the club mostly go to the pistol range and only shoot centerfire rifle before hunting season opens. Many of the younger guys shoot AR rifles mostly with a pie plate tacked at 50 yards and let fly! These younger people do not seem to have the interest or inclination, to learn and invest the time to be a good shot.
Many shooters at our club are older and go to the range frequently. Most of these guys shoot really well because they practice and they have been at it for 40+ years. The many younger guys at the club mostly go to the pistol range and only shoot centerfire rifle before hunting season opens. Many of the younger guys shoot AR rifles mostly with a pie plate tacked at 50 yards and let fly! These younger people do not seem to have the interest or inclination, to learn and invest the time to be a good shot.
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Handloader
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Elkman":3sopagr0 said:
Thank you Elkman
Elkman":1jni3r9h said:
I guess I have gotten to the point, that you and I have spoke about a few times by our campfire or around our kitchen table.. I don't really care what the cartridge is called magnum/standard, I use the same 1800FPS/1500 ftlb's of energy with a hunting bullet at my maximum range. That is what I want out of my rifles, no matter what they are called, when they fall below that line, it is the rifles MAX range. Some of mine take it real far out and some fall below long before it. That is for hunting elk and such. But the same rule applies well for deer as well.
The kink is, todays better BC'ed bullets hold onto their energy pretty well, so while back in the 1950/60's a 300 Win Mag was created in order to give some more oomph to a 180 grain bullet over an 06. Today, you could start that 30-06 out with a high BC'ed bullet that'll probably put more energy on target than the 180 PT's or pick your favorite bullets of old, at say 500 yards (give or take, didn't run the numbers). So, it breaths a little life back into the 06. Again, that same high BC'ed bullet in the 300 Magnum is going to take it further, and probably carry that energy out to beyond my comfortable hunting ranges...
Still comes down to what the shooter is comfortable with at the end of the day. I prefer having more than enough to hammer an elk on the edge of my range, rather than figuring out how to cross a canyon and "hope" those elk are still going to be in the same area, 6 hours from now.
I do agree that most guys can tame a 30-06 and learn to shoot it well, and probably be better than trying to start a guy off with a 300 Magnum. Good article though Mike.
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bullet
Handloader
- Dec 26, 2007
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Thank you Scotty and your comments were very good.
If we go back a while to where cartridges like the 7x57, 30-30 and 303 British were the rage, in comparison the likes of the 30-06 and the 270 when it came along (especially with its high pressure rating) ARE magnums to me.
The 7mm RM and 300 WM to me are like supermagnums. And the likes of the RUMs and the 338 Lapua to me, are applicable in the practical sense to about 1% at most of what would be considered necessary shots.
What I am saying is that the 30-06 class cartridges along with the likes of rounds like the 284 Winchester and many others that might be considered as standards are a magnum in my view. The 308 Win class rounds along with the older lower pressure spec cartridges are what I consider more your "standard rounds".
If you use a super magnum of the 300 WM class, I begrudge you not. But unless you're shooting buffalo and bigger, you might not really need them.
The 7mm RM and 300 WM to me are like supermagnums. And the likes of the RUMs and the 338 Lapua to me, are applicable in the practical sense to about 1% at most of what would be considered necessary shots.
What I am saying is that the 30-06 class cartridges along with the likes of rounds like the 284 Winchester and many others that might be considered as standards are a magnum in my view. The 308 Win class rounds along with the older lower pressure spec cartridges are what I consider more your "standard rounds".
If you use a super magnum of the 300 WM class, I begrudge you not. But unless you're shooting buffalo and bigger, you might not really need them.
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Nice read Mike!
BeeTee
Handloader
- Jul 27, 2011
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Thanks for the info!
The problem comes from the fact that most hunters just don't shoot enough to get good and stay good. A magnum can make the problem worse because of recoil sensitivity. A 30-06 and a 7RM have almost the exact same recoil. Anyone who can handle an 06 can handle a 7RM equally well. BT
The problem comes from the fact that most hunters just don't shoot enough to get good and stay good. A magnum can make the problem worse because of recoil sensitivity. A 30-06 and a 7RM have almost the exact same recoil. Anyone who can handle an 06 can handle a 7RM equally well. BT
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bullet
Handloader
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BeeTee":3fu6xvd2 said:
Yeah, on average only about 4 pounds different with the 7mm Rem mag kicking a little harder.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
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The thing that is most important to me is to have all of my rifles set up so that the triggers break at 2-1/2 pounds and have no creep. The ideal being to have all of my rifles feel the same up to and including the trigger break so that they all feel as much alike when they fire as I can humanly make them. This way, it does not make any difference whether I am shooting a .257 Roberts or a .340 Weatherby, it all feels the same for all bolt actions and they all shoot into the same group, zeroed at 200 yards and working out from there.
Razorbacker
Beginner
- Mar 31, 2013
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Excellent article Mike as usual. I will echo BeeTee in re: Most folks don't shoot enough. Also want to agree with Oldtrader3 in re: consistent trigger pull is a huge plus, except when one is dealing with a set trigger.
My main take-a-way from your article is the barrel life issue. I think us magnum lovers know this but are in denial on some levels.
That said i will use my Big 8 exclusively again this upcoming season, with my '06 for back up. As you so correctly stated in your article there is nothing I need the 8 for over the '06 in my state. I just like the heavy push of the magnum rifle. There are the beanfield hunters that would benefit from the flatter shooting magnums, and I once was one but most don't practice at those ranges.
Anyhow, I hope I live long enough to burn out the barrel on my eight then take heavy grief from you for replacing it with a 28" custom tube lol.
My main take-a-way from your article is the barrel life issue. I think us magnum lovers know this but are in denial on some levels.
That said i will use my Big 8 exclusively again this upcoming season, with my '06 for back up. As you so correctly stated in your article there is nothing I need the 8 for over the '06 in my state. I just like the heavy push of the magnum rifle. There are the beanfield hunters that would benefit from the flatter shooting magnums, and I once was one but most don't practice at those ranges.
Anyhow, I hope I live long enough to burn out the barrel on my eight then take heavy grief from you for replacing it with a 28" custom tube lol.
I kinda feel like expanding on my earlier point, ie that to me the likes of the 30-06, 270, 284 Win and others of similar capacity are already magnums to me...
If we look at the early standard loadings for the 30-06 for example; I believe it was a 150g bullet around 2700fps. And this to me is around the performance of the "average" hunting round to me, give or take. I am thinking your 6.5 Swedes, 45-70, 308 Win, 243 Win, 30-30 etc. Yes I know they are all different and are a little more or less powerful than the above "standard" type round but they are all in the "ordinary" class.
Step forward to when the 270 Win was introduced at it's higher pressure spec, and to when the 30-06 started to be loaded to more realistic higher pressures with modern powders, and to me what we had was a magnum class group of cartridges at that time.
Yes I know the large capacity belted mags have also been around for a very long time. But like I said, I really see these as super-magnums in the practical sense.
I suppose I could have just said "the 30-06 class rounds like the 25-06 up to the 35 Whelan are plenty powerful enough for me" without boring you with the above post! Sorry about that. :|
If we look at the early standard loadings for the 30-06 for example; I believe it was a 150g bullet around 2700fps. And this to me is around the performance of the "average" hunting round to me, give or take. I am thinking your 6.5 Swedes, 45-70, 308 Win, 243 Win, 30-30 etc. Yes I know they are all different and are a little more or less powerful than the above "standard" type round but they are all in the "ordinary" class.
Step forward to when the 270 Win was introduced at it's higher pressure spec, and to when the 30-06 started to be loaded to more realistic higher pressures with modern powders, and to me what we had was a magnum class group of cartridges at that time.
Yes I know the large capacity belted mags have also been around for a very long time. But like I said, I really see these as super-magnums in the practical sense.
I suppose I could have just said "the 30-06 class rounds like the 25-06 up to the 35 Whelan are plenty powerful enough for me" without boring you with the above post! Sorry about that. :|
